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with sssoul
>> the first 2.12(atleast) is exactly the same take as the bootleg version <<

i haven't listened to it yet, but: HM, i believe you :E

My thoughts exactly, with sssoul!

Btw, does Mick Taylor play the subtle other guitar in left speaker?

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His Majesty
Btw, does Mick Taylor play the subtle other guitar in left speaker?

That's how it sounds to me.

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Mathijs


One more interesting thing (if you are an anorak like I am): Keith's guitar sound on this take of LC is exactly that of Honky Tonk Women studio version and live at Hyde Park. Does this mean we finally know the guitar and amp for HTW, namely Gibson ES-330 and HiWatt DR-103?

Mathijs

My ears say the same thing... and it's about the greatest guitar sound ever captured on tape.

Over-all, this alternative, early version of the song - not to take opinion of how it is related to "drunk version" - has so much LET IT BLEED-era feeling in it that its place in EXILE is a bit anomaly. Jagger's vocals, the guitar, the arrangement of the instruments, belongs totally to the late-60's, pre-EXILE era.

- Doxa

Nice to have the alternate take from a collector's point of view. It is indeed a different vocaltake alltogher. No edit/splice at 2.12. Same drumaccents on the previously available take.

As for the overdubs on other tracks: Nothing new. The Stones have been reworking demo's of earlier sessions on other albums. But coupling them to the reissue of Exile is somewhat of a sonic mismatch. The reworked tracks come nowhere near the original Exile vibe. For me it confirms the Stones are at their best focussing on the present instead of trying to recapture/revive some old glory. But let's keep in mind the bonustracks are mainly rejects and unfinished demo's.

All things considered I'm still glad they're opening the vaults. The Stones could probably benefit from someone that would guide the proces of selecting and releasing archivematerial with a little bit more 'integrity'. But then again... who am I to tell the Stones what to do...

Let's just sit back and enjoy another spin of Exile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-20 07:50 by Britney.

Sound like the studio version of how they played it in Hyde Park. I could not believe Don Was said he prefered the "new" version better. Even Mick said he quite enjoyed the older version.

Well, the liner notes on the new disc says MT is on there on guitar for what its worth. I also dont thin its been spliced and after multiple listens to the cd dont believe the "drunken" boot version we all know is part of it either........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-18 16:45 by scottkeef.

If it is indeed an edit of different takes then I think the case for some other thread's subject matter might have some validity to it:

DON WAS STRIKES AGAIN.

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scottkeef
Well, the liner notes on the new disc says MT is on there on guitar for what its worth. I also dont thin its been spliced and after multiple listens to the cd dont believe the "drunken" boot version we all know is part of it either........

The first 2:12 of LC are equal to the much bootlegged 'drunk' version, as Majesty has pointed out.

Mathijs

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skipstone
If it is indeed an edit of different takes then I think the case for some other thread's subject matter might have some validity to it:

DON WAS STRIKES AGAIN.

Its at least as much to do with Jagger and Richards. Their names are on the release.

And if its a 'composite' version (and it absolutely sounds like it), then there's reasonable musical validity in doing so if they think that part of a certain take is sub-standard. Its hardly unprecedented for a released song to be edited together from different takes.

Would the splice be that noticeable if we didnt have a bootlegged take to compare it to and scrutinise in minute detail? I'm not so sure.

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Gazza
Would the splice be that noticeable if we didnt have a bootlegged take to compare it to and scrutinise in minute detail? I'm not so sure.

the irony is that it's best to listen to the sober version in a drunken state so as to not notice the splice so much, whilst it's fine to listen to the drunk version sober....go figure....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-18 19:11 by StonesTod.

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Gazza

Would the splice be that noticeable if we didnt have a bootlegged take to compare it to and scrutinise in minute detail? I'm not so sure.

Well, yes, as the splice ads two bars to the beat.

Mathijs

At the moment this track is a favourite of mine of the 'new' ones, and I keep on listening it again and again. I recognize the editing problems discussed here but I pass those problems because I just love over-all the way the song sounds.

I made a comment about its LET IT BLEED session-like nature, and I continue from there.

Namely, Jagger's vocals. I just love the tone and sound he had at the time. It was that BEGGARS-BLEED period when his voice was clearly and loudly mixed - and for a good reason: it had more natural vitalness and edge probably than ever. it is the voice of "Sympathy", "Jumpin' Jack", "Memo From Turner", "Honky Tonk Women". "Can't Always Get" I am talkig about, and its here in "Loving Cup" - it's just so natural in its vitalness and 'untrickiness' and it stiill leaves the impression of rebellous nastiness and (lazy) arrogance. VERY effective. It is seemingly quite different than the voice he learned to use by the time making some STICKY numbers, and especially the one he used in EXILE (very buried though), and GOATS HEAD - the one with which he learned to use the nasal in a colorful, interpretative way (that was very impressive and great sounding as well.)

In the context of EXILE extras, this voice is so distinguished and strong in compared to the other numbers. Unfortunately. Time Waits For No One.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-18 20:44 by Doxa.

could be a quality thing here, but it seems as if in the very beginning they made the piano louder, a tad more prominent.

anyone else hear that?

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CindyC
could be a quality thing here, but it seems as if in the very beginning they made the piano louder, a tad more prominent.

anyone else hear that?

what?????? i can't hear you - there's this LOUD PIANO coming outta the speaker right now....

well hopefully it's Nicky or Stu

The edit/cutting up grates with me because the full bootleg drunk version is a small piece of raw perfection, the whole vibe and feel of that whole take is shiit hot!

On the Exile bonus release the first 2.12 are exactly the same as the bootleg, then the editing begins. Given how they recorded during this time I doubt they'd have full vocals for more than one take, so I reckon what we have on the Exile bonus disc is an edited down version of the same take as the bootleg version.

They must have thought the full version was a tad too raw for a commercial release, but yet still overdubbed and included one of the worst instances of lead guitar playing on a stones record on So Divine. Strange people!

Given that the sound of Loving Cup is so good, getting a chopped up version rather than a free flowing full authentic take is more than a bit of a let down for me. Ignorance is sometimes bliss, so for me atleast not knowing the bootleg version would have been a blessing in this case.

Because of the sound quality the bonus version is still a beautiful buzz though, just has a few odd moments if you are familiar and in love with the excellent bootleg version.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-19 01:17 by His Majesty.

....this is so ramshackle beautiful

best one of the bunch....

the edit at 2:12 is only for 4 seconds ,there are no extra beats , then back to the original track but different vocals until 3:21 where about a minute has been edited out probably because there is a messed up "feel so humble " bit..

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straycatblues73
the edit at 2:12 is only for 4 seconds ,there are no extra beats , then back to the original track but different vocals until 3:21 where about a minute has been edited out probably because there is a messed up "feel so humble " bit..

Sure the vocals are different?

Well, what about " it just sounds great" as a comment?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-25 22:18 by Harm.

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Harm
Well, what about " it just sounds great" as a comment?

The editing is not great.

I think the mix is what made me jump the gun about the first part being from the "drunken" version (which I agree with you guys now-apologies!). But the mix sure does seem different. Piano louder as stated above and even the vocals played with volume wise. On the boot version Mick nearly shouts'nothin" where on this disc its there but seems kinda buried?

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His Majesty

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straycatblues73
the edit at 2:12 is only for 4 seconds ,there are no extra beats , then back to the original track but different vocals until 3:21 where about a minute has been edited out probably because there is a messed up "feel so humble " bit..

Sure the vocals are different?

the takes are very similar but play them together in sync there are definite differences in the vocals.
the edit at 2:12 seems to just to eliminate the "fall down drunk" phrase.
after 3:21 jagger misses his cue ? and different lyrics for the "feel so humble " bit edited out

actually different vocals from the start
an example: at 29 sec bootleg : i'm the ploughman , exile : i'll be the ploughman
listen yourself



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-26 17:56 by straycatblues73.

I like the LP version better.

I looked at it again and there are two major bits edited out
boot: at 3:08 1min 8 sec missing, and at 4: 57 32 sec missing.
then again the exile version has an extended outtro of 40 seconds, total time now is 7:10

could post the two tracks as a stereo mix of mono mixes if anybody is interrested ( and it is allowed) for comparising vocals

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straycatblues73


the takes are very similar but play them together in sync there are definite differences in the vocals.
the edit at 2:12 seems to just to eliminate the "fall down drunk" phrase.
after 3:21 jagger misses his cue ? and different lyrics for the "feel so humble " bit edited out

actually different vocals from the start
an example: at 29 sec bootleg : i'm the ploughman , exile : i'll be the ploughman
listen yourself

At the time they must have went for a few takes of vocals and what we have on exile bonus is a mix of those takes, plus some editing of backing track.

And hard limited to death. Just as if THAT has anything to do with the original Exile sound...... Epic fail by those responsible for the mastering.

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skipstone
I like the LP version better.

Love the "drunk version" for its drunkeness, loose feel and unpolished vibe. The first time I heard was after years of hearing the lp version and it blew me away because it was so different.
But Im with you, Skipstone, I prefer the LP version of this song....its just on a whole other level, musically, vocally and emotionally. What sounds like 4am-and-we're-all-stoned on the original, alternate take becomes positively spiritual on the later version. Jagger's vocal is straight, powerful and raw, the acoustic guitar gives it a countryish vibe and of course, Micky's piano just drives it all the way through, his gospel-country-tinged feel just takes it to church for me, giving the song an urgency lacking in the "drunk" version. And then the outro: Jagger's ad-libs, Nicky's rolling piano, the steel drums, the horns....the feeling is not so much stoned as euphoric, or as someone on another board said, majestic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-20 22:43 by stupidguy2.