Have been following the news that Poland's president
Lech Kaczynski, his wife Maria and ninety five others were
killed in plane crash in Russia.....Moving scenes of the Polish
people crowding the streets in respect of the return of the President body.

Know there are a number of Polish people here on IORR so all my
condolences go out to you and your country.....Must be a very hard time...

TAKE CARE



ROCKMAN



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-14 14:14 by Rockman.

a personal tragedy, but a politically not a loss for poland - quite on the contrary.

Yes, it is unbelievable what happened. The more if you look at the historical context - the coincidences are so surreal that nobody would be able to think up something like that in his wildest dreams. My deepest sympathy to the Polish coutry.

I also thought about the Polish people from IORR when I first heard the sad new.



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Quote
Lorenz
a personal tragedy, but a politically not a loss for poland - quite on the contrary.

To be honest I have absolutely no idea what "kind of people" were those on the plane - I try not to follow politics as hard as I can . The politicians, judging according to the situation in our country (which is as close as it can be) are no goodies. But what happened is something I would not wish to happen to my worst enemy. But let's not get political, that doesn't belong here, I am sorry I did a bit.

I wouldn't wish death to anyone and many people on that plane had family, etc. It's a tragedy indeed and I didn't want to come across as insensitive.

Lorenz, no need to explain yourself, I understand you perfectly. I think your statement is absolutely correct.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-14 12:28 by Happy24.

i dont quite get it. i mean i feel really sorry for anybody who lost someone close. but to be honest: why is it worse if a president dies? and i dont even think he was a very special politician.
sorry for his daughter and everybody who loved him. but terms like "tragedy beyond description??" come on.
rest all in peace!

My sentiments, too, Rockman.

Take care, Polish IORReans!

- Doxa

"politically not a loss for poland - quite on the contrary."

and not a political loss for Europe either. Lech K. was a Euro-sceptic (but h loved Brussel's money given to his country) and he was one of Bush's poodles, following him enthusiastically in the Iraq illegal war.

K. was intellectually about as modern as Jesse Helms in the U.S.

maybe sad day for poland, but not for the rest of the world

I work with many people from Poland. Some are devestated about this, and some could not care less. One funny thing though: One Polish guy from my work said that if you know something about the Polish people's character, you would know that it probably wasn't the fault of the pilot, but rather the president. This was because, he said, that Polish people are too lazy to drive the longer way from a different air base. The next day I read that the president might have pushed the pilot to land in Smolensk, just like my Polish friend said.

JumpingKentFlash

Well, earlier the president tried to fire a pilot who didn't want to land in bad weather...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-14 13:48 by Bärs.

I'm from Poland and have to say that this tragedy is totally overwhelming - it's obvious that no one expected it, but it was so surreal at first... I learned about the crash about 2h after it happened and all the news told something else, nothing was clear, it was so hard to believe. our country became really united in the last couple of days and almost everybody's showing respect to the dead.

the thing is - Kaczynski was really hated by media. he wasn't an outstanding politician, like everybody he made bad choices, but he was being laughed at almost constantly, not only for meritorical things, but for not knowing the right way to sing the hymn of Poland or mistaking names, not knowing English etc etc. it's all changed now, we all look at the brighter facts: he fought for freedom in Poland in Solidarnosc and was a fair and honest president.

please, look up some of the people that died in that crash. it's not only president Kaczynski, but former president Kaczorowski, many combatants and families of people who died in Katyn... many really well-known and active politicians, we owe them a lot.

but there's also a very sad thing that happened after the death of Kaczynski which most of foreigners won't probably understand. his family & the church decided that Kaczynskis body will rest on Wawel, which broke the atmosphere of mourning and unwritten law. Wawel is the final place of rest of Polish greatest kings, there isn't a president laying there, and it's the place of great, great worth to the nation, almost a saint one. he shouldn't lay there as he's not a national hero. such controversial decisions shouldn't be made by his family and the goverment and church during the mourning and most of the people are really sad about it.

there are several things to learn from this awful tragedy and media noticed them well, about the safety of transport and public relations between the gov't and people.

also, if you have some free time, please watch Katyn to remember the killing of 20,000 of polish intellectual elites. not the best movie by Andrzej Wajda but a very emotional one - the director himself lost his father there.

thank you for the thread and concern.

It is not the time to judge about the late president now, in the historical context this is an horrible tragedy, I have not been to Poland yet but I will go there one day, it is a country with a great culture and I hope that the country will recover from that loss, I am not a fan the Kaczynski twins, but seeing Jaroslav Kaczynski and the president's daughter by the coffin was really sad to see by any human aspect.

my heart goes out to the people of Poland .our thoughts and prayers go out to you !!!!!!!!!

Amused - well written. There are two separate things going on - first there is this unbelievable human tragedy - a lot of people lost there their relatives and loved ones, there was not only the president on the plane... And then there is this irrational fact that in a second a person can become someone else in a veiw of people...the thing with Wawel is heavy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-14 18:32 by Happy24.

[www.boston.com]

I might not understand neither everything on the following article/review in English ,nor the ins & outs ,but this sounds positive to me :

[www.nytimes.com]

>> Amused - well written. ... the thing with Wawel is heavy. <<

yes it is
i live here although i'm not Polish ... i wish this country a steady course

I have friends from Poland, and they express sadness for this tragedy, and at the same time worry about Russian-Polish relations. Fragile,emotional, and in need of some Russian understanding and more acknowledgement, and Putin does not warm easily to past truths when it doesn't serve his own platform.

-----thanks guys -------

From human point of view it could have been a tragedy for every country.From political view it might bring some advantages.Political life in Poland has reached the bottom recently.Similarly Polish - Russian relations.Paradoxical both can change for better.

Thanks Rockman and other people for your concern. I could not believe the news last Saturday. It was sad and confusing. A huge loss not from a political but from a human point of view.

I think that things go in wrong directions in Poland after the death of President Kaczynski. Now the absolute power will get party of primeminister Mr Tusk (PO). Ther will be no balance between main players on polish political stage. Most of people in my country thinks that Wawel is right place.

This thread is closed because it has been turned into a political direction unfortunately.

Bjornulf