Seeing that Mick and Keith finally got it together to delve into the archives for the new edition of Exile could we finally begin to see more of their mammoth unreleased treasure trove being released?
I would hazard a guess that we may and here are my reasons:

1. It’s taking longer for them to come up with new material – we’ve only had 2 new albums in the last 12 years with a handful of tracks released as add ons for 40 Licks.

2. Don Was says he “got very involved with the guys who bootlegged the stuff” so he must have come up with all the amazing stuff us fans have been cherishing all these years. We assume Mick and Keith know about everything that’s in the can but do they remember all that well? I would have thought that given their hedonistic lifestyles they don’t. In fact Keith admits as much by saying he’d forgotten about the Exile outtakes as “it’s been quite a while”. Imagine what they’d do with all the other alternative versions from Sticky right up to Voodoo Lounge. (I’m leaving the Decca years as those belong in the ABCKO vaults over which the Stones have no control). Now the Exile archives have given them a taste of what they can achieve I’d bet that the thought of releasing more from the archives has entered their minds. It would also give them new product to remind all those doubters and detractors just how great they were.

3. Jagger is very business minded and he must be aware that the band’s audience are ageing along with them. As great as they are the band aren’t as influential on today’s scene and therefore as each year goes by archive material would have a decreasing value. Releasing archive material now brings in a guaranteed dollar – in 20 years time I’d guess all that will really matter is their true albums rather than the collector’s unreleased stuff.

4. There could easily be hundreds of great tracks – gigs, outtakes, alternative versions, demos - that they could unearth and that’s just the audio. Presumably they must also have a great video archive – Brixton 95, Chicago 97, Shepherds Bush 99 and other club shows spring readily to mind. (Not sure if the El Mocambo was videoed but the prospect is mouth-watering)

Be interesting to hear your thoughts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-11 01:14 by Silver Dagger.

I agree with your thoughts concerning the vaults and releases.
But I have my doubts there is something like a masterplan yet marketing them.

What could matter are the different platforms to release all the stuff.
Nowadays with all the downloads could change within your twenty years schedule
into something completely different...albums,CD´s,DVD´s will soon be ( if not already ) something
old fashioned,so the turn will be from physical formats much more into some kind of virtual ones.

I hope I will be wrong because I´m a bit sceptical to touch some screen and
suddenly pop into a virtual scenery where I find myself back in ´72...

OK,that´s me....I still like the physical formats...coverart,booklets,that kind of thing...

Exile is the beginning. If it sells, I'm sure we'll see more. Don Was talking about seeing the whole lot might be a bit of an intended tease, to stir up a bit of a demand. The Stones must be thinking about future income, without having to crank out new stuff (that doesn't really sell). If the Beatles and Hendrix can keep pumping out new products, the Stones can. They may finally be at that point. I hope they are anyway.

I hope they don't release a lot of sub standard songs. Boots are interesting and sought after for us as real fans who care about the Rolling Stones.

It wouldn't do them any good to either saturate the market or release a spate of doctored up old songs.
But I'm sure glad for the additional EOMS material. I think this will prove to be an example of how to do this kind of thing right.

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Tate
If the Beatles and Hendrix can keep pumping out new products, the Stones can. They may finally be at that point. I hope they are anyway.

Good point. The Stones really have been left in the starting blocks by archive releases from other legends such as The Beatles, Dylan, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, The Beach Boys, Bruce Springsteen, The Byrds, Love, Zappa, Captain beefheart, The Doors, Jeffewrson Airplane, The Dead, Lennon, CSN, Neil Young, Cream, Clapton, and The Velvet Underground to name but a few.

The only notable exceptions are The Stones, Pink Floyd and Macca.

And we all know there is enough high quality unreleased and live material to make it worth their while - and ours!

Let's hope so. Damn. Those tapes aren't improving in quality.

I wish we are now entering to the stage where the nostalgy can be open and honest, and history to be treated as a history, and not just a mythical past to be milked out in the name of the absurd self-deceptive myth that "The Stones is still a current and relevant act" (when, in fact, it is nothing but a nostalgy act).

Like said the potential audience is aging, and probably there is not going to be much interest for this kind of projects in future. And actually it looks like that at the moment we over-all are in the business of re-evaluating the past by filling up some gaps by new material, and giving thereby a more full picture of the nature of game, of the rock music in its legendary prime. The Stones have been out of this this process, just concentrating on their massive nostalgy tours. Taking the fact that their official output andd catalog is quite a mess it is not wonder that the status of their old work is not sexy as it used to be. It needs to be sharpened and filled to give a more authentic picture of their significance. The point is not anymore just to give the authentic, original records - they have already served their historical function. Now the issue in rock business is to enrichen this legacy whatever great documentation there is, and many acts have really done marvellous results (starting from Zep and Dylan, see Silver Dagger's list above).

Especially this is true of their live performances: it really pisses me as a fan that the big masses - those who are in interested in the old school of rock - have no real picture what an incredible act The Stones were in their peak. I believe all of those post-1989 tour documents can do only harm to their image by giving almost the only picture of the Stones as a live act (such an aging nostalgy act playing the same standard decades-old songs again and again). A great representation of all their classical 1972/73, 1975/76, 1978 tours should be offered. And anything that can be found from the 60s.

Like said now the whole state of affairs of "original" rock - like magazines such as MOJO or UNCUT actually represent - is just the historical interest, and what actually is happening is like a new competition of who is ruling the images of the past, who is taking the best care of one's legacy. In this relatively new game the Stones are doing incredibly bad. Their catalog sells next to nothing. They are not cool at all.

But I have started to believe that Mick Jagger - always a competive soul - starts to recognize this. I think he has ambition and vanity enough to have success and recognition in a game where the cash is not everything. I think he wants to see his mark on history to be left, and, being a control freak he is, wants to have some control over it, too.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-10 18:42 by Doxa.

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Tate
Exile is the beginning. If it sells, I'm sure we'll see more.

if it's dependent on this thing selling, then we'll not see more. exile never sold that much back in the day - why would an expensive reissue sell much 4 decades later?

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Doxa
Like said now the whole state of affairs of "original" rock - like magazines such as MOJO or UNCUT actually represent - is just the historical interest, and what actually is happening is like a new competition of who is ruling the images of the past, who is taking the best care of one's legacy. In this relatively new game the Stones are doing incredibly bad. Their catalog sells next to nothing. They are not cool at all.
- Doxa

Totally agree. I think by issuing DVDs of the band at the peak of their powers they can only do good and help further their interest with younger fans. For too long the band have been decaying and yes, they have become a nostalgia act unlike Dylan, Springsteen and Neil Young who revitalise their live acts by reinterpreting their back catlogue.

Dylan is of course the master and was the first to do this - so much that sometime you don't even know what song he's playing until the chorus!

But too many younger people I speak to only know The Stones for what they are now and not the collest rock band in the world that they were in the 60s and 70s. It's time Mick and Keith realised that.

On recent tours The Who have even taken to playing footage of their glory days while they actually play live. Now, I'm not saying The Stones should do that but it reminds people of how great they once were.

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Silver Dagger
On recent tours The Who have even taken to playing footage of their glory days while they actually play live.

the stones have done that - as far back as 1981 (time is on my side)....

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skipstone
Those tapes aren't improving in quality.

Neither are they getting materially worse, if stored properly.

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StonesTod

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Silver Dagger
On recent tours The Who have even taken to playing footage of their glory days while they actually play live.

the stones have done that - as far back as 1981 (time is on my side)....

good memory

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FreeBird

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skipstone
Those tapes aren't improving in quality.

Neither are they getting materially worse, if stored properly.

but our hearing is getting worse, so we'd not even notice nor care at this point anyway....

If the quality is bad - no need to release it.
It will just make things and memory about the Stones worse.

Don't forget what the Grateful Dead have done with their archives...

-making slected live shows from various years, available to their fans on CD or DVD

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chrismusic
Don't forget what the Grateful Dead have done with their archives...

-making slected live shows from various years, available to their fans on CD or DVD

and the non-selective shows are always available through legit download sources, too. if you took all the available dead boards and lined them up to listen to continuously, based on my actuarial table, i would be dead myself before the last show played...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-10 20:54 by StonesTod.

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StonesTod

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chrismusic
Don't forget what the Grateful Dead have done with their archives...

-making slected live shows from various years, available to their fans on CD or DVD

and the non-selective shows are always available through legit download sources, too. if you took all the available dead boards and lined them up to listen to continuously, based on my actuarial table, i would be dead myself before the last show played...

Now that is what I would call a grateful dead...

- Doxa

Extensive promotional campaigns for extended reissues can have a negative impact on an artist's career in the present. U2 have had to face declining sales with "No Line On the Horizon" after having released 2 expanded reissues and a compilation in a row this year. The Electric Light Orchestra had to face the same problem in 2001 when "Zoom" did not meet sales expectations, following a boxed set and coinciding with reissues.

Strangely, only Bob Dylan has not had these troubles, (he has always outperformed the competition that he faced from his catalogue self), but his old Band mate Robbie Robertson seems to have entirely abandoned his solo career for the sake of promoting expanded reissues of The Band's albums.

Becoming a catalogue artist can be a potentially dangerous career move as long as an artist's career is still ongoing.
Not even Elvis himself had the ability to prove that wrong by re-entering the building.

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billwebster
Robbie Robertson seems to have entirely abandoned his solo career for the sake of promoting expanded reissues of The Band's albums.

not exactly. robbie never really had a solo career, just a couple of commercial albums two decades ago and a handful of odd projects here and there since. not sure he was particularly involved in the reissues, either, was he? he has pretty much distanced himself from his former band since departing 34 years ago....

No No,

just read the article in the recent Magazine Uncut.
It all depends on the sales of Exile, Jagger said

if not enough people buy the Exile cds, Jagger cant be bothered to invest in another project, for instance like Sticky Fingers.

So, if you want the Stones Vaults to open, let millions of fans buy the cd Exile.
that way, The stones might do something

Be realistic: after Exile, the stones will do a minor tour and stop.

a shame, but this was bound to happen.

bye Jeroen

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corriecas
No No,

just read the article in the recent Magazine Uncut.
It all depends on the sales of Exile, Jagger said

if not enough people buy the Exile cds, Jagger cant be bothered to invest in another project, for instance like Sticky Fingers.

So, if you want the Stones Vaults to open, let millions of fans buy the cd Exile.
that way, The stones might do something

millions?? hahaha - yeah, right. millions never bought it in the first place...

I was simply touching on what Was said about the tapes needing to be baked.

i thought it was the musicians that needed to be baked...

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billwebster
Extensive promotional campaigns for extended reissues can have a negative impact on an artist's career in the present. U2 have had to face declining sales with "No Line On the Horizon" after having released 2 expanded reissues and a compilation in a row this year. The Electric Light Orchestra had to face the same problem in 2001 when "Zoom" did not meet sales expectations, following a boxed set and coinciding with reissues.

Stones sales can barely decline more than it has. So, no problem whatever they do. The sales can only go upwards.

yeah all those audio and video tapes sitting around collecting dust isnt helping anyone either

Jagger is just using the "depends on the sales of Exile" as an excuse not to do any more vault clearing because he knows it will only sell to a select audience. Look at the interview about the expanded Exile where he said he said no at first because he couldn't be bothered.

Well for Mick it was probably like goin' to a Botox party with an old lover .....



ROCKMAN

I doubt about this open vault operation.
Universal has just released the 2009 box. Can you imagine again a new TATOO YOU ??
There is no more hits to release but just interesting alternates or some nice surprises like 'Precious Love' for fans only.
Or maybe a complete album of unreleased songs from Beggars to tatoo you.

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

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toomuchforme
I doubt about this open vault operation.
Universal has just released the 2009 box. Can you imagine again a new TATOO YOU ??
There is no more hits to release but just interesting alternates or some nice surprises like 'Precious Love' for fans only.
Or maybe a complete album of unreleased songs from Beggars to tatoo you.

We all know how unscrupulous record companies are and how many times albums get re-released so I wouldn't think that would bother them too much if they get the nod from Mick and Keith. Next year will be the 40th anniversary of their first own label album Sticky Fingers so perhaps a good opportunity to start.

One never knows.

I popped in to Barnes & Noble today. Up on the shelf in the box set section was Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out, along with a bunch of other box sets. I don't get the perception of why other artists/labels have no problem releasing box sets of a lot of artists but the Stones are off limits.

Granted, Hank Williams has no influence on a box set of his material being out but a lot of other artists that are still alive/going have. What makes the Stones so much better? Box sets aren't sold to make millions and millions of dollars, they're sold for serious collectors and interested fans. They don't make the charts but they do sell. So I don't see why not - other than Mick can't be bothered.

Which is too bad. There's a hell of a legacy to highlight.