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I don't think your argument is very fair. namely, most of the people who have opinions about Keith's guitar work in 1969 or 1973 or even 1978 or 1982 did not attend the shows but base their opinions on the same sort of factual base as they have of many ABB gigs (which they didn't attend either). it is very democratic to judge from the keyboards... You just make the comparison, and that's it.
- Doxa
Good Idea! Or better still ask Bill Gates to play a few Keith riffs....hmmm maybe not....
Rolling Stones Tribute
Play Rolling Stones
oh.... how TRUE that is.
These same types put NO value on a good singer. They could do a show w/ the real goddam Jagger, and play 'indifferent' to it.
Guitar-god-wannabe-@#$%&...
ARRRRGH!!!!!
LOL!
[thepowergoats.com]
I was at it as well and whilst 2-3 songs were a trainwreck, the rest of the show was fine. Terrific concert.
How could you tell Keith was out of it?
the sound in Frankfurt was so bad, due to the closed roof (and it didn't even rain).
Chuck later wrote on his blog that they had a 7 sec. delay to cope with and the whole band had trouble keeping it up.
messed up sound indeed, but due to the closed roof.
The next gig in Paris made up for everything - at least for me.
To how many bootlegs from the past decades do you actually listen that make up for your opinion?
Brussels Affair and Hampton most likely will be among them.
they're pretty fine quality and you've listend to them start to end lots of times - but what about the others that don't sound well recorded/ have some screw ups in it?
They hardly get mentioned and they're not discussed on song by song basis.
Different with YouTube clips.
every single song gets cherry-picked, by some posters, with a microscope treatment, just to prove the band should give it up already.
not to mention the crappy mono sound and blurry, awkward images.
Now where is your democratic judging from the keyboards?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-22 23:44 by open-g.
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Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
kinoliksmith
()
Date: April 22, 2008 06:22
TO BV
Well you know that I love Keith a lot.His performance in 2007 wasn't too good as per the reviews I read here.Few states that he is still good.So what u say?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-22 19:51 by bv.
Well you know that I love Keith a lot.His performance in 2007 wasn't too good as per the reviews I read here.Few states that he is still good.So what u say?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-22 19:51 by bv.
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
Addicted
()
Date: April 22, 2008 17:42
BV went to most of the shows, as far as I know.
The thing is that a lot of people who have been slagging Keith didn't go to the shows. If they had, they'd have seen a man who was on fire at times, sometimes just good, sometimes average and in Helsinki he was ill.
I know a few people on this board who went to a lot of shows in Europe, like myself, and we have a much more balanced view than those who sat at home hammering away on their keyboards - basing their reviews on youtube-snippets from mobile phones...
The thing is that a lot of people who have been slagging Keith didn't go to the shows. If they had, they'd have seen a man who was on fire at times, sometimes just good, sometimes average and in Helsinki he was ill.
I know a few people on this board who went to a lot of shows in Europe, like myself, and we have a much more balanced view than those who sat at home hammering away on their keyboards - basing their reviews on youtube-snippets from mobile phones...
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 22, 2008 17:43
<and in Helsinki he was ill>
Something also happened in Nijmegen, for sure...
Something also happened in Nijmegen, for sure...
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 22, 2008 17:53
Quote
Addicted
BV went to most of the shows, as far as I know.
The thing is that a lot of people who have been slagging Keith didn't go to the shows. If they had, they'd have seen a man who was on fire at times, sometimes just good, sometimes average and in Helsinki he was ill.
I know a few people on this board who went to a lot of shows in Europe, like myself, and we have a much more balanced view than those who sat at home hammering away on their keyboards - basing their reviews on youtube-snippets from mobile phones...
I don't think your argument is very fair. namely, most of the people who have opinions about Keith's guitar work in 1969 or 1973 or even 1978 or 1982 did not attend the shows but base their opinions on the same sort of factual base as they have of many ABB gigs (which they didn't attend either). it is very democratic to judge from the keyboards... You just make the comparison, and that's it.
- Doxa
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
farawayeyes2
()
Date: April 22, 2008 18:09
I don't think your argument is very fair. namely, most of the people who have opinions about Keith's guitar work in 1969 or 1973 or even 1978 or 1982 did not attend the shows but base their opinions on the same sort of factual base as they have of many ABB gigs (which they didn't attend either). it is very democratic to judge from the keyboards... You just make the comparison, and that's it.
- Doxa[/quote]
well it depends, You sure cant judge from a youtube snippet recorded with some economic cameras or with cell phone. Anyway, Keith guitar work on Shine A Light movie is fantastic to my ears..
- Doxa[/quote]
well it depends, You sure cant judge from a youtube snippet recorded with some economic cameras or with cell phone. Anyway, Keith guitar work on Shine A Light movie is fantastic to my ears..
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: April 22, 2008 18:13
Asking this question to BV is the same as asking Bill Gates what he thinks of Windows.
Just a joke BV...........
__________________________
Just a joke BV...........
__________________________
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
ChrisM
()
Date: April 22, 2008 18:22
But true! ( No offense Bjornulf, just an observation. God bless ya!)Quote
NICOS
Asking this question to BV is the same as asking Bill Gates what he thinks of Windows.
Just a joke BV...........
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: April 22, 2008 18:26
Ok then. Let's ask Bill Gates what he thinks of Keith's playing in 2007.
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
Hound Dog
()
Date: April 22, 2008 19:03
Write a bad review of a Stones show and see if it gets posted on that section of the web site. Not a chance.
Re: TO BV
Posted by:
Stikkyfinger
()
Date: April 22, 2008 19:14
Quote
Four Stone Walls
Ok then. Let's ask Bill Gates what he thinks of Keith's playing in 2007.
Good Idea! Or better still ask Bill Gates to play a few Keith riffs....hmmm maybe not....
Rolling Stones Tribute
Play Rolling Stones
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
goingmad
()
Date: April 22, 2008 19:58
I just attended at Madrid show, and it was a horrible performance of Keith...
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: April 22, 2008 20:04
I changed the subject because this thread is about Keith not me...
I saw each and every show of the European Tour 2007. I am not a guitar player by proffesion. Mind you some guys who play "Keith" in cover bands do thinbk they are "better" at being Keith than the original...
When you are in love you do not rate your parter. You consume and you absorbe and you enjoy. Because you don't know how long it will last. May be one year. May be fifty years. Who knows. I have been in love. For 37 years. Still counting. I don't rate my love affair. I consume. Absorb. Enjoy.
Keith was great during the tour. From the start 2005 in Toronto until the finish in the O2 august two years later. If I was looking for the perfect guitar player I would probably follow another band. I am following the greatest band and the greatest guitar soul in the world, and I love it. Sure Keith is hitting some weired chords at times but so does my day to day wife and day to day "kids" (now I am a gradddad x3) and so does every single normal person in life. That is not the point. The point is if you walk into a show and when you walk out from the show some hours later... do you feel great? I feel great every time. That's what I need... Nothing more. Nothing less. Simply to feel great.
Why do I tell you all about this? You know I never care about these BV threads? Because IORR 59 goes to print tomorrow morning, and I am trying out every single excuse to do something else. I use to say that making another IORR is like giving birth to a baby. A nightmare. You try to avoid it. I have been trying to postpone and avoid for months, but the birth has started, point of no return...
Bjornulf
I saw each and every show of the European Tour 2007. I am not a guitar player by proffesion. Mind you some guys who play "Keith" in cover bands do thinbk they are "better" at being Keith than the original...
When you are in love you do not rate your parter. You consume and you absorbe and you enjoy. Because you don't know how long it will last. May be one year. May be fifty years. Who knows. I have been in love. For 37 years. Still counting. I don't rate my love affair. I consume. Absorb. Enjoy.
Keith was great during the tour. From the start 2005 in Toronto until the finish in the O2 august two years later. If I was looking for the perfect guitar player I would probably follow another band. I am following the greatest band and the greatest guitar soul in the world, and I love it. Sure Keith is hitting some weired chords at times but so does my day to day wife and day to day "kids" (now I am a gradddad x3) and so does every single normal person in life. That is not the point. The point is if you walk into a show and when you walk out from the show some hours later... do you feel great? I feel great every time. That's what I need... Nothing more. Nothing less. Simply to feel great.
Why do I tell you all about this? You know I never care about these BV threads? Because IORR 59 goes to print tomorrow morning, and I am trying out every single excuse to do something else. I use to say that making another IORR is like giving birth to a baby. A nightmare. You try to avoid it. I have been trying to postpone and avoid for months, but the birth has started, point of no return...
Bjornulf
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: April 22, 2008 20:30
Quote
bv
Mind you some guys who play "Keith" in cover bands do thinbk they are "better" at being Keith than the original...
oh.... how TRUE that is.
These same types put NO value on a good singer. They could do a show w/ the real goddam Jagger, and play 'indifferent' to it.
Guitar-god-wannabe-@#$%&...
ARRRRGH!!!!!
LOL!
[thepowergoats.com]
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: April 22, 2008 20:44
Well, that's the response you must have expected from BV (who looks amazing if he is really a granddad X3, by the way). I can provide a little more balanced view, and I saw the band a handful of times in 2007. There are good days and bad days; the bad days are worse than they used to be, and the good days are still great. If you saw the O2 concerts, you would think that they could go on for another 5 years.
It's all on Youtube, by the way, just compare the Tokyo Dome 3.22 clips with the Saitama clips from a few days later.
It's all on Youtube, by the way, just compare the Tokyo Dome 3.22 clips with the Saitama clips from a few days later.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
wee bobby lennox
()
Date: April 22, 2008 20:58
i was only at 1 concert in 2007 so my opinion might not be as valid as others.
the last 02 gig was the one and the stones were in great form, they were far too good that night to contemplate quitting.
the last 02 gig was the one and the stones were in great form, they were far too good that night to contemplate quitting.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
rrronnie
()
Date: April 22, 2008 21:02
<and in Helsinki he was ill>
...Something also happened in Nijmegen, for sure...
...I just attended at Madrid show, and it was a horrible performance of Keith...
Everyone who was in Frankfurt probably agrees that he was really out of it there, too. In fact I was shocked watching Keith from front row. He played much better on the other shows I saw on the 2007 leg.
"When you are in love you do not rate your parter. You consume and you absorbe and you enjoy. Because you don't know how long it will last. May be one year. May be fifty years. Who knows. I have been in love. For 37 years. Still counting. I don't rate my love affair. I consume. Absorb. Enjoy."
Yes, bjoernulf, well said, I agree with you here. But I must add I also worry about my love. That's what I did seeing Keith in Frankfurt.
...Something also happened in Nijmegen, for sure...
...I just attended at Madrid show, and it was a horrible performance of Keith...
Everyone who was in Frankfurt probably agrees that he was really out of it there, too. In fact I was shocked watching Keith from front row. He played much better on the other shows I saw on the 2007 leg.
"When you are in love you do not rate your parter. You consume and you absorbe and you enjoy. Because you don't know how long it will last. May be one year. May be fifty years. Who knows. I have been in love. For 37 years. Still counting. I don't rate my love affair. I consume. Absorb. Enjoy."
Yes, bjoernulf, well said, I agree with you here. But I must add I also worry about my love. That's what I did seeing Keith in Frankfurt.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
Wild Slivovitz
()
Date: April 22, 2008 21:06
Hey, the guy was clearly undergoing pharmacological treatment, ya know? I'm looking forward to look at him playing when his therapy post head surgery is accomplished!
By the way, that was a BRILLIANT post, BV!
By the way, that was a BRILLIANT post, BV!
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: April 22, 2008 21:50
it was a brilliant post and he also didn´t answer the initial question although he must have an answer. actually this is an answer.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: April 22, 2008 21:59
Quote
goingmad
I just attended at Madrid show, and it was a horrible performance of Keith...
I was at it as well and whilst 2-3 songs were a trainwreck, the rest of the show was fine. Terrific concert.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
JK
()
Date: April 22, 2008 22:23
I saw 9 shows in 2007. In St Peterburg Keith was on fire, absolutely fantastic and
then at the next show in Helsinki... But no matter what happens or he does he is Mr Rock´n´Roll.
then at the next show in Helsinki... But no matter what happens or he does he is Mr Rock´n´Roll.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
open-g
()
Date: April 22, 2008 23:15
Quote
rrronnie
Everyone who was in Frankfurt probably agrees that he was really out of it there, too. In fact I was shocked watching Keith from front row.
How could you tell Keith was out of it?
the sound in Frankfurt was so bad, due to the closed roof (and it didn't even rain).
Chuck later wrote on his blog that they had a 7 sec. delay to cope with and the whole band had trouble keeping it up.
messed up sound indeed, but due to the closed roof.
The next gig in Paris made up for everything - at least for me.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
milio77
()
Date: April 22, 2008 23:33
Well, I only attended the shows in Barcelona and Madrid in 2007. In Barcelona, Keith was fine, a little weak at the beginning but getting better as the concert was going on. In Madrid he was a complete wreck, and got slightly better at the end (JJF that was).
But I've said this before: knowing the troubles the man's had this last two years, I forgive him.
Everybody's got a right to have a couple of bad days once in a while. Or even a bad month. Nobody's perfect! And I was happy to see the Stones live once more.
After all, it's been 45 years of pure magic so, from my point of view, it takes another 45 years of sh*** before I started to seriously think that keef has lost it.
Still love him and sure I won't miss next tour!
But I've said this before: knowing the troubles the man's had this last two years, I forgive him.
Everybody's got a right to have a couple of bad days once in a while. Or even a bad month. Nobody's perfect! And I was happy to see the Stones live once more.After all, it's been 45 years of pure magic so, from my point of view, it takes another 45 years of sh*** before I started to seriously think that keef has lost it.
Still love him and sure I won't miss next tour!
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
rrronnie
()
Date: April 22, 2008 23:35
"The next gig in Paris made up for everything - at least for me."
I totally agree with you on that.
I totally agree with you on that.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
open-g
()
Date: April 22, 2008 23:41
Quote
Doxa
I don't think your argument is very fair. namely, most of the people who have opinions about Keith's guitar work in 1969 or 1973 or even 1978 or 1982 did not attend the shows but base their opinions on the same sort of factual base as they have of many ABB gigs (which they didn't attend either). it is very democratic to judge from the keyboards... You just make the comparison, and that's it.
- Doxa
To how many bootlegs from the past decades do you actually listen that make up for your opinion?
Brussels Affair and Hampton most likely will be among them.
they're pretty fine quality and you've listend to them start to end lots of times - but what about the others that don't sound well recorded/ have some screw ups in it?
They hardly get mentioned and they're not discussed on song by song basis.
Different with YouTube clips.
every single song gets cherry-picked, by some posters, with a microscope treatment, just to prove the band should give it up already.
not to mention the crappy mono sound and blurry, awkward images.
Now where is your democratic judging from the keyboards?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-22 23:44 by open-g.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
Lady Jayne
()
Date: April 22, 2008 23:42
I was obviously the lucky one - Paris, Isle of Wight and O2 (x2) and I thought they were terrific each time.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
J-J-Flash
()
Date: April 22, 2008 23:49
Quote
milio77
Well, I only attended the shows in Barcelona and Madrid in 2007. In Barcelona, Keith was fine, a little weak at the beginning but getting better as the concert was going on. In Madrid he was a complete wreck, and got slightly better at the end (JJF that was).
But I've said this before: knowing the troubles the man's had this last two years, I forgive him.
Tell that to the guy who shelled out big bucks on tickets and caught him on a bad night, or week..
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
milio77
()
Date: April 22, 2008 23:49
I might add a couple of things here:
1) Not only the troubles in the last 2 years, it's the lifestyle Keef has been carrying, it would take the half of it to send anyone to the grave. So let's celebrate he's still among us and willing to make music for us, that's a gift. As we say in Spain, he'll bury us all.
2) Even when Keef it's not in top shape, a gig with Jagger, Watts & Woods (and a bunch of a** kicking side musicians) can't be bad!
1) Not only the troubles in the last 2 years, it's the lifestyle Keef has been carrying, it would take the half of it to send anyone to the grave. So let's celebrate he's still among us and willing to make music for us, that's a gift. As we say in Spain, he'll bury us all.
2) Even when Keef it's not in top shape, a gig with Jagger, Watts & Woods (and a bunch of a** kicking side musicians) can't be bad!
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
milio77
()
Date: April 23, 2008 00:14
Quote
J-J-FlashQuote
milio77
Well, I only attended the shows in Barcelona and Madrid in 2007. In Barcelona, Keith was fine, a little weak at the beginning but getting better as the concert was going on. In Madrid he was a complete wreck, and got slightly better at the end (JJF that was).
But I've said this before: knowing the troubles the man's had this last two years, I forgive him.
Tell that to the guy who shelled out big bucks on tickets and caught him on a bad night, or week..
This kind of disscussion could go on forever.
You might think that after you paid a great deal of money, you can demand the best, and I understand it and agree to a certain point.
But when I buy tickets for a live act, I assume there's a certain risk that the performer won't deliver. After all, performers are human too, as we are.
Sometimes you can't give your best, no matter how hard you try. It happens to us all. And in years watching concerts, I've seen all kind of troubles on stage. Some problems were caused by the performers themselves, some by technical issues, whatever.
And yeah, that's a bi***, but we're talking about human beings not machines, and people make mistakes. There's no guarantee you're gonna see perfection.
There's no such thing.
The best musician can play and awful concert, the best filmmaker can shoot a film that sucks, the best writer can write a boring to death book... I could go on forever... And there's nothing we can do about it, that's life.
The only thing you can do is turn your back on them next time they offer anything if you felt so disappointed before. But me, I prefer to give them another chance when they showed they have real talent in the past.
And I'll say something else, the Stones didn't have an obligation to return to Europe in 2007. When shows were scrapped in 2006, everybody got their money back and the could had gone home after the american leg for a well deserved rest and call it a day. But they came, and that's a gesture I appreciate.
Re: Keith performances 2007
Posted by:
russr
()
Date: April 23, 2008 00:37
Love shouldn't be blind. when it is, we sometimes do more harm to the ones we love by not dealing with reality.
I saw every NY show over the past two tours and I have to say that overall, while keith still has moments of brilliance, his playing is impaired. (One small case in point: he screwed up the intro to Brown Sugar I think almost every time I saw them play it.)
Whatever the reason(s) (age, arthritis, memory lapses, mugging to the crowd, having a different sense of what rythym guitar playing is supposed to be than he did 30 years ago, substance abuse, getting up on wrong side of bed, etc etc etc), he's just not the same player.
If the reasons are things that can be helped, and Keith wished he could, then I hope the people who love him -- who are in a position to help -- help him.
If it's the the efffects of time and living his life and playing the same songs again and again for 40 years, well then it is what it is, we should enjoy it while we still can (assuming you still enjoy it) and buyer beware if you expect perfection.
One day there will be no Keith. So even though 90% or half a Keith -- or whatever it is that shows up that night -- frustrates me at times, it sure beats no Keith.
And one thing we know with absolute certainty: no keith is coming. One day. Just like for all of us.
So imagine that day has come, and imagine you sitting there wishing "if only"...well, next time they hit the road...pretend you got your wish!
And enjoy the show!
I saw every NY show over the past two tours and I have to say that overall, while keith still has moments of brilliance, his playing is impaired. (One small case in point: he screwed up the intro to Brown Sugar I think almost every time I saw them play it.)
Whatever the reason(s) (age, arthritis, memory lapses, mugging to the crowd, having a different sense of what rythym guitar playing is supposed to be than he did 30 years ago, substance abuse, getting up on wrong side of bed, etc etc etc), he's just not the same player.
If the reasons are things that can be helped, and Keith wished he could, then I hope the people who love him -- who are in a position to help -- help him.
If it's the the efffects of time and living his life and playing the same songs again and again for 40 years, well then it is what it is, we should enjoy it while we still can (assuming you still enjoy it) and buyer beware if you expect perfection.
One day there will be no Keith. So even though 90% or half a Keith -- or whatever it is that shows up that night -- frustrates me at times, it sure beats no Keith.
And one thing we know with absolute certainty: no keith is coming. One day. Just like for all of us.
So imagine that day has come, and imagine you sitting there wishing "if only"...well, next time they hit the road...pretend you got your wish!
And enjoy the show!
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