Forgive me for opening three threads (the third one is on its way) so quickly after becoming a new member, but I had to wait a really long time before my account was approved...

This question is actually a simple one. Who's singing in the chorus of Ruby Tuesday (the proper, pre-2002 or Rolled Gold+) version. Is it 2 x Mick + Keith, or 3 x Mick? I can't tell for sure, and I'm reading conflicting reports on the internet. Does anyone know?

Mick & Keith

Pretty sure this is one of the few songs where Brian actually helps out on backing vocals as well - the tip off is that much of it is out of key!

Oh boy--

*waits for 4 people to jump in with how brilliant a singer Brian Jones was if he was only allowed to sing*

I'm not sure I'd recognize Brian's singing voice even if I heard it!! Is there a clip of Brian singing anywhere in existence?

>> Is there a clip of Brian singing anywhere in existence? <<

Brian's quite audible on I Wanna Be Your Man, Walking the Dog and Money.
if you want to see him at it, check out the 1964 NME Pollwinners' show.
he had a very distinctive growly-kind-of voice.

During the call-response-part of YESTERDAYS PAPERS you can hear Brian sing "who was yesterdays papers?" twice, solo!

Priest

I think it's Mickx2 and Keith.

can someone explain the issue around "Ruby Tuesday" on the 2002 remasters?

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Virgin Priest
During the call-response-part of YESTERDAYS PAPERS you can hear Brian sing "who was yesterdays papers?" twice, solo!

Priest

I've always wondered about this. I think Bill might be on Yesterday's Papers too.

I think it may have been Keith & Brian on the studio ... but if you watch the Ed Sullivan show with them doing this & LSTNT, I could hear Brian singing the 'who could pin a name on you?' part with Keith plain as day.
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"Doctor please, some more men please,
To Cotchford Farm, out by the pool...

What a drag it is they couldn't revive him"

Brian Jones 2/28/42 - 7/2/69

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Virgin Priest
During the call-response-part of YESTERDAYS PAPERS you can hear Brian sing "who was yesterdays papers?" twice, solo!

Priest

That's Keith.

Mathijs

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MissNBrian
I think it may have been Keith & Brian on the studio ... but if you watch the Ed Sullivan show with them doing this & LSTNT, I could hear Brian singing the 'who could pin a name on you?' part with Keith plain as day.
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I think the phrase is "who could hang a name on you", and Brian does not sing here.

I think it is fair to say, without being negative about Brian, that he did not have a voice fit for singing very well.

Mathijs

I think most of us agree he can't sing with his forced hoarse voice, altough I always wander how he would have sounded if he sang Lady Jane with his well educated speaking voice

__________________________

His friend Dave Thompson has said that Brian wasn't a good singer and also that Brian never sang at home whilst he stayed with him circa 1965/66.

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can someone explain the issue around "Ruby Tuesday" on the 2002 remasters?

It's missing a vocal overdub by Mick. So that version's chorus is either Mick + Keith or 2 x Mick. Most people seem to agree that the original version is superior. At first, it seemed that the switch may have been intentional (it was rumored that Mick didn't like the extra overdub and ABKCO was always very quiet about it), but the original version's reappearance on Rolled Gold+ in 2007 seems to contradict that theory, unless that was a mistake by itself.

I'm sure someone can correct me if my description was inaccurate or incomplete, or otherwise imperfect.

The first take of TEH LAST TIME was sung by Brian.

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FreeBird

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can someone explain the issue around "Ruby Tuesday" on the 2002 remasters?

It's missing a vocal overdub by Mick. So that version's chorus is either Mick + Keith or 2 x Mick. Most people seem to agree that the original version is superior. At first, it seemed that the switch may have been intentional (it was rumored that Mick didn't like the extra overdub and ABKCO was always very quiet about it), but the original version's reappearance on Rolled Gold+ in 2007 seems to contradict that theory, unless that was a mistake by itself.

I'm sure someone can correct me if my description was inaccurate or incomplete, or otherwise imperfect.

I follow you, but I'm not which vocal part goes missing--the overdub was a backing vocal on the chorus?

I still insist that there are voices on some of Between The Buttons that are not Mick or Keith. I am thinking specifically of Yesterday's Papers, and there may be others.

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71Tele
I still insist that there are voices on some of Between The Buttons that are not Mick or Keith. I am thinking specifically of Yesterday's Papers, and there may be others.

Some parts just sound like M&K singing, but changing the tone of their voice slightly.

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cc
I follow you, but I'm not which vocal part goes missing--the overdub was a backing vocal on the chorus?

I wouldn't call it a backing vocal, but you're right that it's only there in the chorus, making the chorus sound distinctly different from the verses, whereas the incorrect version has a chorus that sounds a lot more similar to the verses, relatively speaking.

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Mathijs

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MissNBrian
I think it may have been Keith & Brian on the studio ... but if you watch the Ed Sullivan show with them doing this & LSTNT, I could hear Brian singing the 'who could pin a name on you?' part with Keith plain as day.
--------------------------------------------

I think the phrase is "who could hang a name on you", and Brian does not sing here.

I think it is fair to say, without being negative about Brian, that he did not have a voice fit for singing very well.

Mathijs

Sorry for not getting back to this till just now. First of all, the other night when I typed this I didn't proofread, plus I'm just getting over the flu. Anyhow ...

I just got done watching this again twice, the ES show version, and I should have worded it as "I assume it's Brian singing the part with Keith in the backround" ... now my reasons:

I only see 2 mics on the stage (although there is prolly more), but Mick has one, the second one being with Keith & Brian.

When Mick goes into the chorus' (especially the very last 'good-bye Ruby Tuesday, who could hang a name on you' part), yes that is Keith singing back up (as he had thru out the song), but it's this last one that I noticed that other voice in the background. On top of that, when they show them, (and yes it IS a far away shot at that), but I see Brian, waving the recorder like he's kinda conducting an orchestra, but more importantly, he is facing the mic (not the audience) and he is kinda leaning forward towards it.

Now, believe this or not, I thought Bill too at first, because I agree that Brian's singing voice (as in Walking the Dog & Money) was rough. But since I didn't see any mics near Bill & Charlie, and then catching that last part with him, I only can assume that Brian may be that 3rd voice I'm hearing.

now if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to apologize, nor am I trying to start any stuff here. here is the link for the show:





WHOOPS!! Evidently, when ya put in the link it just slapped it in there lolol Cool! Anyhow, hopefully you can see why I'm thinking that way...
-------------------------

"Doctor please, some more men please,
To Cotchford Farm, out by the pool...

What a drag it is they couldn't revive him"

Brian Jones 2/28/42 - 7/2/69

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FreeBird

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cc
can someone explain the issue around "Ruby Tuesday" on the 2002 remasters?

It's missing a vocal overdub by Mick. So that version's chorus is either Mick + Keith or 2 x Mick. Most people seem to agree that the original version is superior. At first, it seemed that the switch may have been intentional (it was rumored that Mick didn't like the extra overdub and ABKCO was always very quiet about it), but the original version's reappearance on Rolled Gold+ in 2007 seems to contradict that theory, unless that was a mistake by itself.

I'm sure someone can correct me if my description was inaccurate or incomplete, or otherwise imperfect.

So the Ruby Tuesday version on Rolled Gold+ in 2007 is the original version with the vocal overdub? That's new for me.

René

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René
So the Ruby Tuesday version on Rolled Gold+ in 2007 is the original version with the vocal overdub? That's new for me.

Yes, it is.

On a sidenote, I think I may know what happened (source):

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Mick Jagger
[Between the Buttons is] a good record, but it was unfortunately rather spoiled. We recorded it in London on 4-track machines. We bounced it back to do overdubs so many times, we lost the sound of a lot of it... Connection is really nice... My Obsession, that's a good one. They sounded so great, but then, later on, I was really disappointed with it. Isn't Ruby Tuesday on there or something?

If the overdub in question was the last one to be recorded, that would leave the tape with two versions on it: the final mix and one that's missing the vocal overdub. I would guess that they didn't realize which was which, decided to listen to both versions to figure out which one is best and ended up picking the unfinished version because it sounded better - after all, the correct version would be one generation down. I have no means of confirming this theory unless someone in the know starts to talk, but it makes sense to me.

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FreeBird
I have no means of confirming this theory unless someone in the know starts to talk, but it makes sense to me.

Interesting theory which does makes sense, but it seems odd that they'd bounce down again just to accommodate one more arguably unessential vocal overdub.

Interestingly Olympic didn't officially have 8 track machine(s) till early 1969 thus Between the Buttons, Their Satanic Majesties Request, Beggars Banquet and possibly early tracks for Let It Bleed and the singles recorded during that period were most likely all recorded on 4 track tape machine.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-24 16:04 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
Interesting theory which does makes sense, but it seems odd that they'd bounce down again just to accommodate one more arguably unessential vocal overdub.

My guess is they didn't realize they were losing quality until it was too late - and indeed, all albums since Satanic are available in acceptable sound quality whereas the sound quality of earlier albums varies a lot, so I think it's safe to say they finally got a clue as to how to record properly after Buttons.

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His Majesty
Interestingly Olympic didn't officially have 8 track machine(s) till early 1969 thus Between the Buttons, Their Satanic Majesties Request, Beggars Banquet and possibly early tracks for Let It Bleed and the singles recorded during that period were most likely all recorded on 4 track tape machine.

That would seem to back up Mick's words then, at least when it comes to using 4-track tape recorders.

To my ears it sounds like Mick & Keith twice (4 voices).
Most of Simon And Garfunkle's vocals are recorded twice (4 voices)
Didn't Bill do some of those high-register parts sometimes? Like the live version of Time Is On My Side? That could be him on that high part in My Obsession in the middle. A pity the engineers at Olympic didn't take studio notes like they did at EMI Abbey Road...of if they did, they're lost somewhere.