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Same here,i've often thought that 66/67 band sounded very similar in attitude,sound and as you say attack to 78 and even 81.It's just that in between Jagger saw what was happening with live music,hired a guitar genius and they became a classic rock live band,because they were that good.
And Bitch fits perfectly in that mid period as classic dare i say cock-rock
Tell that to Bad Brains, and you'll be searching for your teeth.
This is indeed German punk from the 60's.
Perhaps - but it's debatable that Bad Brains are/were a punk band. Fusion, yes. Hardcore, yes. Progressive and pioneering, yes. But simplicity is not thier forte and that's pretty much a qualifying attribute as far as punk's concerned.
Anyway, am i the only one that thinks that Bitch - great as it is - is just a variation on Get Ready?
Wow, well spotted, and i think you are right, we all know how big a Temptations fan Mick Jagger is (and rightly so, for they are great).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 15:45 by behroez.
...I was about to say that practically that whole album has always had a 'punk' sound for me.
Not so very strange, but things have to be returned imo. I mean, you better say: I resemble my father than: My father resembles me, let's see in which respects he does. So I mean punk was in fact a reaction, a 'back to the anarchistic beginning'. Some sort of '(contra-)revolution which didn't last that long.
In my post up here I referred already to Satisfaction and Doncha Bother me. There certainly other examples of other bands to find (The Who, My generation?)
This gets subjective, but to my ears hell of a lot of rock music doesn't swing' in the slightest. Rock'n'roll does, but from bands like Cream and Hendrix to R.E.M. and U2 to Dylan's 'Like A Rolling Stone' (often called the first rock single) rock per se is more likely to be characterised by what Ian McDonald calls 'rhythmic overstatement and slower rate of harmonic change' than by the jauntiness and danceability of 'swing'. Ponderous is the word that springs to mind when describing rock. Look at a track like Kashmir.
Thanks for the info, just wonder how the hell they got away with it in the army with those funny haircuts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 21:09 by behroez.
Crass, not Crash.
My suggestion would be to not listen to The Great Rock & Roll Swindle at all. It's neither a punk album nor a Sex Pistols album. In fact, it barely qualifies as an album at all.
Never Mind The Bollocks, however, is worth a listen, if only to show how much Punk Ground Zero is indebted to Mr Charles Edward Anderson Berry.
That's your commonality with the Stones right there.
Yes that is right they were called Crass
Wow, that's the first time I've heard that before. Television is one of the great Punk bands, and Verlaine and Lloyd's guitars couldn't get any more complicated. Don't forget the insane syncopations of the drums, too.
Punk is ATTITUDE, not the way you play your instruments. You can go from the complicated intertwining guitars of Television, the bizarre instrumentations of DEVO, to the simple, menacing chords of Link Wray...Punk is Attitude.
While I agree, yes, that punk is mostly in the attitude, I wouldn't cite Television as being in the slightest bit punk. They were certainly contemporaneous with it and in that sense intrinsic to the NY scene, but musically they were practically psychedelic at points, owing as much to hippified West Coast acid rock - even punk rock anathema like the Grateful Dead - as the basic late 50s/early 60s rock that inspired most of their peers.
Again, this is entirely subjective and your mileage may vary.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
buffalo7478
()
Date: February 13, 2010 01:48
I see zero connection between Bitch and punk. It's up tempo, good driving bass line, but that's it. Horns, melody, production, etc all say it is far from punk.
I agree with Swiss that early Stones were more 'punk' than this. Fast, mean, simple chords. Songs and performance that forced their way out of the speaker(s) and attacked. I listened to a live 60s versions of 19th Nervous Breakdown and Last Time recently, and thought: these would have worked in some club in 1977.
I agree with Swiss that early Stones were more 'punk' than this. Fast, mean, simple chords. Songs and performance that forced their way out of the speaker(s) and attacked. I listened to a live 60s versions of 19th Nervous Breakdown and Last Time recently, and thought: these would have worked in some club in 1977.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: February 13, 2010 02:07
One of my favs
__________________________
__________________________
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
still ill
()
Date: February 13, 2010 03:39
Quote
buffalo7478
I agree with Swiss that early Stones were more 'punk' than this. Fast, mean, simple chords. Songs and performance that forced their way out of the speaker(s) and attacked. I listened to a live 60s versions of 19th Nervous Breakdown and Last Time recently, and thought: these would have worked in some club in 1977.
Same here,i've often thought that 66/67 band sounded very similar in attitude,sound and as you say attack to 78 and even 81.It's just that in between Jagger saw what was happening with live music,hired a guitar genius and they became a classic rock live band,because they were that good.
And Bitch fits perfectly in that mid period as classic dare i say cock-rock
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: February 13, 2010 04:48
19th Nearvous breakdown from Got Live if you want it reminds me of punk.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
NorthShoreBlues2
()
Date: February 13, 2010 06:25
here is some pretty cool punk!!!!!
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
behroez
()
Date: February 13, 2010 14:26
Always thought this performance to be really early punkish
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 14:41 by behroez.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 14:41 by behroez.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
MJG196
()
Date: February 13, 2010 15:17
Quote
71Tele
Too rootsy for punk. Punk was very white, straight four beat. No funk.
Tell that to Bad Brains, and you'll be searching for your teeth.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
behroez
()
Date: February 13, 2010 15:34
Quote
Rollin' Stoner
Monk Punk
This is indeed German punk from the 60's.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
CaledonianGonzo
()
Date: February 13, 2010 15:39
Quote
MJG196Quote
71Tele
Too rootsy for punk. Punk was very white, straight four beat. No funk.
Tell that to Bad Brains, and you'll be searching for your teeth.
Perhaps - but it's debatable that Bad Brains are/were a punk band. Fusion, yes. Hardcore, yes. Progressive and pioneering, yes. But simplicity is not thier forte and that's pretty much a qualifying attribute as far as punk's concerned.
Anyway, am i the only one that thinks that Bitch - great as it is - is just a variation on Get Ready?
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
behroez
()
Date: February 13, 2010 15:43
Quote
CaledonianGonzo
Anyway, am i the only one that thinks that Bitch - great as it is - is just a variation on Get Ready?
Wow, well spotted, and i think you are right, we all know how big a Temptations fan Mick Jagger is (and rightly so, for they are great).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 15:45 by behroez.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
Filip020169
()
Date: February 13, 2010 16:32
Quote
ryanpow
19th Nearvous breakdown from Got Live if you want it reminds me of punk.
...I was about to say that practically that whole album has always had a 'punk' sound for me.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
windmelody
()
Date: February 13, 2010 16:38
Got Live If you Want it has a punk sound indeed. Bitch never reminded me of Punk, it is Blues and Rock'n'Roll, the horn arrangement on Sticky Fingers is perfect, I love the live versions of Bitch, but I will never understand why they do not play the whole arrangement on stage.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: February 13, 2010 17:16
Quote
Filip020169Quote
ryanpow
19th Nearvous breakdown from Got Live if you want it reminds me of punk.
...I was about to say that practically that whole album has always had a 'punk' sound for me.
Not so very strange, but things have to be returned imo. I mean, you better say: I resemble my father than: My father resembles me, let's see in which respects he does. So I mean punk was in fact a reaction, a 'back to the anarchistic beginning'. Some sort of '(contra-)revolution which didn't last that long.
In my post up here I referred already to Satisfaction and Doncha Bother me. There certainly other examples of other bands to find (The Who, My generation?)
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 13, 2010 18:24
No need to turn retro with a baseless explanation as an answer to a question that is moot from the get go. How does one confuse a ROCK song with punk? Clean yer ears out and pay attention - rock music, for the most part, swings.
There you go.
There you go.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
CaledonianGonzo
()
Date: February 13, 2010 19:03
Quote
skipstone
How does one confuse a ROCK song with punk? Clean yer ears out and pay attention - rock music, for the most part, swings.
This gets subjective, but to my ears hell of a lot of rock music doesn't swing' in the slightest. Rock'n'roll does, but from bands like Cream and Hendrix to R.E.M. and U2 to Dylan's 'Like A Rolling Stone' (often called the first rock single) rock per se is more likely to be characterised by what Ian McDonald calls 'rhythmic overstatement and slower rate of harmonic change' than by the jauntiness and danceability of 'swing'. Ponderous is the word that springs to mind when describing rock. Look at a track like Kashmir.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: February 13, 2010 20:18
Quote
CaledonianGonzoQuote
skipstone
How does one confuse a ROCK song with punk? Clean yer ears out and pay attention - rock music, for the most part, swings.
Don't confuse ROCK with punk!!
What's rock - rock includes both heavy rock, garage rock, punk rock amongst a big variety of rock genres.
Punk or punkrock comes from garage rock or protopunk - so saying "confusing ROCK with PUNK" doesn't make sense. Punk is a part of the broad music expression calles rock.
[en.wikipedia.org]
I mentioned Bitch being a bit punky in the video because of the very fast beat (guitar/drum) you also find in punk songs from bands like fx. Ramones.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
behroez
()
Date: February 13, 2010 20:35
Punk originally wasn't really a distinct music style, if you listen to the Sex Pistols Great Rock & Roll Swindle you'll find a lot of pure rock & roll songs on it. and early punkbands like the Stranglers or the UK Subs where clearly music style wise rock bands. punk was really (as Kleermaker pointed out correctly) an anti-establishment movement, anarchistic in it's ideals and anti-fashion and anti-musicbusiness, ofcourse the movement got quickly hijacked and became a fashion with a distinct kind of music, so basically the anti-thesis of itself. I think the most pure punkband was called Crash (if that was their name) which was more an anarchistic community than a band, who operated on a non commercial basis spreading the message of an ideal anarchistic society. Punkbands were in their element playing on demonstrations or in squadhouse activities instead of concerthalls (i think).
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
Rollin' Stoner
()
Date: February 13, 2010 20:58
they're actually Americans who were in the military stationed in Germany at the timeQuote
behroezQuote
Rollin' Stoner
Monk Punk
This is indeed German punk from the 60's.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
behroez
()
Date: February 13, 2010 21:07
Quote
Rollin' Stoner
they're actually Americans who were in the military stationed in Germany at the time
Thanks for the info, just wonder how the hell they got away with it in the army with those funny haircuts.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 21:09 by behroez.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
Rollin' Stoner
()
Date: February 13, 2010 21:10
they also had fans who shaved their heads like monks and dressed up in monk gear....there's a biography on them called "Black Monk Time" (havent read it myself)Quote
behroezQuote
Rollin' Stoner
they're actually Americans who were in the military stationed in Germany at the time
Thanks for the info, just womder how the hell they got away with it in the army with those funny haircuts.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
CaledonianGonzo
()
Date: February 14, 2010 00:41
Quote
behroez
Punk originally wasn't really a distinct music style, if you listen to the Sex Pistols Great Rock & Roll Swindle you'll find a lot of pure rock & roll songs on it.
Crass, not Crash.
My suggestion would be to not listen to The Great Rock & Roll Swindle at all. It's neither a punk album nor a Sex Pistols album. In fact, it barely qualifies as an album at all.
Never Mind The Bollocks, however, is worth a listen, if only to show how much Punk Ground Zero is indebted to Mr Charles Edward Anderson Berry.
That's your commonality with the Stones right there.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
behroez
()
Date: February 14, 2010 05:01
Quote
CaledonianGonzo
Crass, not Crash.
Yes that is right they were called Crass
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
MJG196
()
Date: February 14, 2010 05:47
Quote
CaledonianGonzo
Perhaps - but it's debatable that Bad Brains are/were a punk band. Fusion, yes. Hardcore, yes. Progressive and pioneering, yes. But simplicity is not thier forte and that's pretty much a qualifying attribute as far as punk's concerned.
Wow, that's the first time I've heard that before. Television is one of the great Punk bands, and Verlaine and Lloyd's guitars couldn't get any more complicated. Don't forget the insane syncopations of the drums, too.
Punk is ATTITUDE, not the way you play your instruments. You can go from the complicated intertwining guitars of Television, the bizarre instrumentations of DEVO, to the simple, menacing chords of Link Wray...Punk is Attitude.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
SwayStones
()
Date: February 14, 2010 15:59
Bitch dosn't sound as a punk song.It's just an awesome rock song.
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
CaledonianGonzo
()
Date: February 14, 2010 19:10
Quote
MJG196Quote
CaledonianGonzo
Perhaps - but it's debatable that Bad Brains are/were a punk band. Fusion, yes. Hardcore, yes. Progressive and pioneering, yes. But simplicity is not thier forte and that's pretty much a qualifying attribute as far as punk's concerned.
Wow, that's the first time I've heard that before. Television is one of the great Punk bands, and Verlaine and Lloyd's guitars couldn't get any more complicated. Don't forget the insane syncopations of the drums, too.
Punk is ATTITUDE, not the way you play your instruments. You can go from the complicated intertwining guitars of Television, the bizarre instrumentations of DEVO, to the simple, menacing chords of Link Wray...Punk is Attitude.
While I agree, yes, that punk is mostly in the attitude, I wouldn't cite Television as being in the slightest bit punk. They were certainly contemporaneous with it and in that sense intrinsic to the NY scene, but musically they were practically psychedelic at points, owing as much to hippified West Coast acid rock - even punk rock anathema like the Grateful Dead - as the basic late 50s/early 60s rock that inspired most of their peers.
Again, this is entirely subjective and your mileage may vary.
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: February 14, 2010 21:09
I thought punk was not being able to play your instrument well, so act like an idiot and call it punk. (this should get things started)
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: February 14, 2010 22:02
Anybody thinks Taylor is a bad rhythm player? A pity he 's not loud enough on this
record..
record..
Re: Bitch - Punk Song?
Posted by:
thabo
()
Date: December 30, 2010 20:09
No Bitch is to well organised. This is punk at it's finest
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