I know they have different styles and sounds, but based on satisfaction of performance and setlists and demand, did one clearly stand out over the other?

Yes. Stones was better and still is.

JumpingKentFlash

I don't think you can really compare. In my opinion, it's apples and oranges. I love the Dead, but they were nothing like the Stones......there was little showmanship with the Dead in comparison to the Stones. You could compare the Stones to the Zeppelin or to the Who, but not the Dead or the Allman Brothers.....As far as the demand, I would think there was more of a demand for the Stones in Europe in '73 than there was for the Dead in '72.......The Stones and Zeppelin were the biggest bands in the world at the time (somebody will probably disagree with me).

For the Dead & the Allmans, it was about the music - first and foremost. The levels of musicianship of those two bands were in a much higher caliber than nay of the British Gods (with the exception of Zeppelin).

How-ev-er...

The Stones had showmanship, energy and passion (and one true vituoso player) unmatched by any band.

..... adolescent head injury???????

You guys really dig The Grateful Dead huh? Can't stand them myself. Never heard The Allman Brothers Band yet.

JumpingKentFlash

.. your lucky

The Dead and the Allmans are 'musician's' bands.
Took me getting past years of stubborn resistance on my own part to get into them (The Dead, I mean). But they've really, really grown on me.

The Allman Brothers are very different from the Dead. I recommend their early stuff - Fillmore East, Eat a Peach. You won't find a more compelling combination of intensity, skill and passion in the blues/rock vein. Plus, they're still around, and will never cost you $350 to enjoy them up close!

what about the Beach Boys? They rocked as hard as anybbody live but never got the credit from the rock press. check uot the "Live at Knebworth 1980" dvd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-17 21:48 by keithfan64.

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
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> You guys really dig The Grateful Dead huh? Can't
> stand them myself. Never heard The Allman Brothers
> Band yet.


You've led a sheltered life JKF..check out the Allmans Live at the Fillmore for starters...

jamesfdouglas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Took me getting past years of stubborn resistance
> on my own part to get into them (The Dead, I
> mean)

so true. i had a friend who dragged me to a dead show in '79 or '80. i was most amused by the THRONGS of freaks and the atmosphere. when a half-speed version of Satisfaction was the encore, i was outraged and vowed to never go again. flash forward to 4-5 years later: after years of hearing some really impressive guitar licks on roommates' endless bootlegs (LOL, another sticking point, how come us stonesfans had to search the dark corners of record stores for $20 hit-or-miss quality vinyl boots and these damn deadheads had 100 free boots of their favorite band? grr..), i decided to give them another chance. ultra-cheap seats for 2 nights of a 3 night stand.

while the atmosphere of the parking lot and the show itself (freaks, joints, shrooms everywhere) was still much more attractive to me than the music, i came away with a huge respect for what they did: great songs, great segues, great covers and intuitive understanding of a wide variety of music (swing, blues, folk, country, improv, etc.), and .... 3 shows in a row without ONE song repeated! wow.

so while i can't imagine any band ever being better (for my taste, anyways) than what i've heard of the stones' '73 tour, i do respect the Dead's work, though i think their 1984-1988 live stuff is better than their '70's live stuff. garcia was truly an amazing musician and singer.

kent, ever hear duane's guitar work on the Layla cd? it would sure make me go seek out some more duane, especially because you're a guitarist, no?

The Sicilian Wrote:
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> I know they have different styles and sounds, but
> based on satisfaction of performance and setlists
> and demand, did one clearly stand out over the
> other?


LOFL!

Stones 73 was the last we heard of Mick Taylor, guitar genius.

GD 72 was the first we heard of Donna Jean, caterwauling screeching fingernails-on-blackboard banshee.

It's quite a difference.

Kent, have to agree...Find the Fillmore East album

Look, anyone who wants to dismiss the Dead or the Allmans from this time period obviously hasn't listened or were not there. They were both both strong bands, but differed in the way they focused their setlists and focus of their music as compared with the boys. Both the Dead and ABBB could rock it up, but in the end they couldn't out rock the Stones. If you saw these bands at that time, especially before Duane died then you know what I'm talking about. Duane would put shivers down your backbone. His tone and feel were unsurpassed. It's there on tape, and if you saw him play you know. There aren't many like him before or since. The Dead before Pigpen died were wonderful as well. Great setlists although you needed some chemical uplift to get you there at their gigs to really get it when the long jams came in. Either way they had the material to leave you floored after a long night. Like I said, you had to be there. Still in the end there was nothing like a Stones concert from 1969-1973. They were on full power then, and it was a pleasure to have seen them. Stunning shows. A great time to have been a fan.

What is that GD song that goes something like "shake it, shake it, sugar ree" or something like that, does anyone know?

The Sicilian Wrote:
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> What is that GD song that goes something like
> "shake it, shake it, sugar ree" or something like
> that, does anyone know?


The song is called "Sugaree" and is a Jerry Garcia/Robert Hunter spin on an old blues entitled "Shake Sugaree."

"Sugaree" appears on 1971's "Garcia" which features Jerry and Dead drummer Bill Kreutzmann and is actually a prime contender for best "Grateful Dead" studio album ever: "Sugaree," "Deal," "Loser," "Bird Song," "To Lay Me Down," and "The Wheel" all remained in heavy rotation in the Dead's setlists until Jerry's death in '95.

Was the 1972 Dead tour "better" than the Stones' '73 tour? Who the hell knows, but suffice it to say that the Dead--with Keith Godchaux's piano--were mighty during the '72 period. Anyone who appreciates the Stones' folk, country, blues and early rock'n'roll influences will find much to enjoy in the '72-era Dead's more laid-back approach to the same sources.

Thanks Rev.,

The first time I saw the Greatful Dead was in 1976 in Buffalo at the old Aud. (Stones played there in 1975.) They had no opening act and when the lights dimmed they came out and "tuned up" for about 20 minutes and then proceeded to play for 4 hours.

I remember sitting with a friend and sharing a bottle of "Tango". I've never seen a band play as long as that evening.

Winter ...enjoyed your story. I love the fact that the Dead play great originals as well as covers. The Dead & Stones share many of the same influences. I also like the fact that the Dead love to play live. They were constantly touring ..while the Stones seem to take the 80's off. I am a huge fan of both bands. I rememeber seeing the Dead @ Giants Stadium years ago ...the great parking lot scene with tons of guitar players handing out all day ...a week later the Stones show up and the difference was amazing. Everybody headed into the show ..hardly anybody hanging out playing music. I would love to see Bob Weir jam with keith & Ron ...and the rest of the band for that matter .... Wang Dang Dootle ...Red Rooster, Around & Around, All over now, Satisfaction all come to mind. I would like to see the Stones bring their ticket prices down a bit. The Dead were the highest grossing band for a while but kept tix prices affordable for their fans. They also did a good job off getting tickets to their fans ...bypassing scalpers withouth charging their fans "membership fees"!! I would love to see the Stones do a week at the Beacon (a la Jerry Garcia on Broadway). As I have said ... 3 NYC club shows by the Stones in the last 15 years in not enough.

Grateful Dead's Europe '72 is a stellar album. One of the great live albums of all time.

..Just so you know..I loved the Dead too, but Europe '72 the album release..

some of the vocals and instruments were overdubbed in the studio so it's kind of a mix of mostly live and some studio..I don't remember the Dead's voices
live in concert as good as the Europe '72 album.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-18 16:16 by reg thorpe.

The Dead have so many original songs which were never done in the studio - only captured in live recordings. This is why so many of their live albums are essential recordings.

Europe '72 [Remaster]: Release Notes: Muze


Grateful Dead: Jerry Garcia, Bob Weir (vocals, guitar); Ron "Pigpen" McKernan (vocals, harmonica, organ); Phil Lesh (vocals, bass instrument); Donna Godchaux (vocals); Keith Godchaux (piano); Bill Kreutzmann (drums).Engineers: Bob Matthews; Betty Cantor; Grateful Dead.Liner Note Author: Steve Silberman.Recording information: Lyceum Ballroom, London, England; Empire Pool, Wembley, England; Tivoli Concert Hall, Copenhagen, Denmark.Originally a three-LP set, this live document of the band at their largest (an octet if you count non-performing lyricist/official member Robert Hunter) is a well-recorded portrait of one of the Dead's finest eras. The Chick Corea-channeled-through-Floyd Cramer piano of Keith Godchaux had already begun to take the Dead to new improvisational heights, but diehard bluesman Pigpen was still representing the group's roots with his harmonica and gritty vocals.If you favor the jamming side of the Dead, EUROPE '72 offers a wealth of riches. "Morning Dew," "Truckin'" and other classics are presented in epic versions, spotlighting the musicians in all their free-form glory. But those who admire the band's excellent songcraft won't be disappointed either, as songs like "Jack Straw" and "Tennesee Jed" exemplify the Dead's gift for matching lyric with melody. Though the Dead had their moments in the studio, this extended set captures the band as they were truly meant to be experienced: live and uncut.

72 was the peak year for both the dead and the stones imo.

"Europe '72" was extensively overdubbed in a San Francisco warehouse with the
Dead set up in concert mode to replicate a concert from the just completed tour.

"Europe '72 is the Dead (mostly) live at their furry finest, but isn't a
purely live album. The "live" sound is partially re-created in the studio by
playing tracks back over the same equipment that the live stuff was originally
recorded on, thus generating an approximation of the original ambience. Got that?"
(Rock Scully "Living with the Dead p228)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-18 17:39 by reg thorpe.

i know your right but its still agreat allbum, better because of the overdubs. ive also heard the same thing about Get your Yas Yas Out. it sure sounds better than Liver than youll Ever Be bootleg. no big deal.

keithfan64 Wrote:
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> 72 was the peak year for both the dead and the
> stones imo.


bingo!

definitely an apples/oranges thing, though. love both bands - and interestingly, I think they both hit their respective peaks on the road in 72 & 78

reg thorpe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Europe '72" was extensively overdubbed in a San
> Francisco warehouse with the
> Dead set up in concert mode to replicate a concert
> from the just completed tour.
>
> "Europe '72 is the Dead (mostly) live at their
> furry finest, but isn't a
> purely live album. The "live" sound is partially
> re-created in the studio by
> playing tracks back over the same equipment that
> the live stuff was originally
> recorded on, thus generating an approximation of
> the original ambience. Got that?"
> (Rock Scully "Living with the Dead p228)

So what do you consider their best live stuff from the 60's and 70's?

I heard from some that the "Truckin up to Buffalo July 4 1989" is one of their better live cds from the latter years.

I like "Hundred Year Hall"; some of the "Dicks Pick's" series; Skull and Roses; some of the bootleg's or downloads that are available as well;

don't get me wrong..I love Europe '72..it sounds fuller and more produced
then some of the other live stuff; Anthem of the Sun also used live concert tapes interspersed with studio material "The Other One" for example;

The Sicilian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So what do you consider their best live stuff from
> the 60's and 70's?
>
> I heard from some that the "Truckin up to Buffalo
> July 4 1989" is one of their better live cds from
> the latter years.

I guess I'm still stuck in the 70's on this one, but a classic Dead show is the "Closing of Winterland" gig from New Year's 1978-79.

It's a very hot show that they used as an occasion to survey their career to that point. High energy and an unbelievable setlist--arguably a better way than "Europe '72" to get one's first taste of the Dead. Available as a specially-priced three-disc set from Rhino.

Another very special facet of the Dead is represented by "Reckoning" which was recorded during the band's month of "Fifteenth Anniversary" shows in San Francisco and New York in Autumn, 1980. The double album (now a greatly expanded double CD from Rhino) covers the acoustic sets with which the band would open every show during that September and October. Excellent full-band performances of Dead originals and a slew of great folk and bluegrass covers.

Along with the Spring, 1970 acoustic sets (look out for the legendary "Dick's Picks" Harpur College, 1970 show), the 1980 Warfield Theatre/Radio City Music Hall gigs were the Dead's only acoustic sets, making "Reckoning" a landmark and a treat.

There's also "Bear's Choice: History of the Grateful Dead, Vol. 1" which was released in '74, but covers a mix of live acoustic and electric material from 1970. Again, it has been reissued by Rhino with some bonus electric material, but it's the acoustic stuff that's great: "Been All Around This World" and "Dark Hollow" in particular are two of Garcia and Weir's best performances ever. As a single disc it's abbreviated, but remains an inexpensive way to get a taste of that period.

Love the Dead, but like stated above, you can't compare the two bands. I have many of the Dick's Picks and just about everything else the Dead released and they are a very unique and acquired sound. Its hard to even say that 72 was the peak for the Dead, I personally love some of the shows from 1977. And they were constantly touring with different set lists so its hard to compare say 72 to 72 with a band like them because the shows were always so different. Where as with the Stones I can tell shows apart from say 72 to 73 pretty easily.

Kent, you really need to check out some of that Allmans stuff. You will love it.