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Doxa

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behroez

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Justin
I did enjoy their performance on that VMA or whatever program where they played "Love Is Strong" and "Start Me Up"

Yes the great Rolling Stones, what can beat this?

Opinions can vary but I think that MTV performance is one of the weakest the Stones ever have done. "Love Is Strong" does not go anywhere (their crappest performance ever) and Jagger is totally out of it - is there one note he ables to sing in tune? Keith concentrates into his posing and mastering not mastery licks but karate kicks and looks, oh my my, so ridiculous. That day the presence of coolness might have not ever been more away from our beloved Glimmer Twins. Is it really so hard to act The Rolling Stones? They look so artificial, and the music does not roll at all.

I still remember the night of seeing the show for the first time and that VERY MOMENT was the first time ever I got the impression that my favourite band ever has actually 'lost it' - the true, natural spirit and substance has left the building, and only the cover and the posing is left.

And seeing it again just strengthens my original impression. The band hads never been such breathless. "Start Me Up" is slightly better than "Love Is strong" but still one of the weakest versions of that song ever.

- Doxa

AGREED! 100%

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Doxa

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behroez

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Justin
I did enjoy their performance on that VMA or whatever program where they played "Love Is Strong" and "Start Me Up"

Yes the great Rolling Stones, what can beat this?

Opinions can vary but I think that MTV performance is one of the weakest the Stones ever have done. "Love Is Strong" does not go anywhere (their crappest performance ever) and Jagger is totally out of it - is there one note he ables to sing in tune? Keith concentrates into his posing and mastering not mastery licks but karate kicks and looks, oh my my, so ridiculous. That day the presence of coolness might have not ever been more away from our beloved Glimmer Twins. Is it really so hard to act The Rolling Stones? They look so artificial, and the music does not roll at all.

I still remember the night of seeing the show for the first time and that VERY MOMENT was the first time ever I got the impression that my favourite band ever has actually 'lost it' - the true, natural spirit and substance has left the building, and only the cover and the posing is left.

And seeing it again just strengthens my original impression. The band hads never been such breathless. "Start Me Up" is slightly better than "Love Is strong" but still one of the weakest versions of that song ever.

- Doxa

I agree Doxa. They looked good but that is it. I loved MJ's costume but as a Stones fan who has been following them since 68. it's hard to get excited about performances like this. I felt that way after seeing 3 shows of the Steel Wheels tour.

My first Stones show was New Jersey in 78. I saw them in 81 4 times and every tour since. I remember seeing the movie Ladies and Gentlemen, and Gimmie Shelter, and seeing some sort of film from the 75 tour and I simply couldn't wait to see them for real. I look back on DVD;s for the "glory days...(67-82)" and thinking how good they would be in smaller settings.

I really sort of wish they would go the blues band route and maybe take up residences in certain cities. Maybe play like 10-15 gigs in the Beacon in NYC, Orpheum in Boston, etc.. Do that in Europe and other parts of the world as well. If they played enough shows in major cities, people would be able to see them.

Anyway...The only thing off Flashpoint that , to me, is listenable is Start Me Up. It has some good chunky rhythm going on.

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skipstone
Easily Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle. The version on Flashpoint is fantastic but the Atlantic City (PPV) is the best ever I think.

Yeah, I second that. The 89/90 version is the best. 7th of July (London) is good too.

Of the original question: I agree with Skipstone that 1989/90 tour was the highlight of "Start Me Up". Being the show opener they really put a lot of concentration and effort to it. In 1981/82 they just rushed it through as it belonged to last part part of the show when they seemingly were in a high adrenaline and played by a pure instinct alone, and with whatever energy they might still had (for example, the version in STILL LIFE suffers from being too out of breath). From 1994 it started to be a show standard to be played with an autopilot (even there are some inspired versions here and there).

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-03 21:02 by Doxa.

Only salvaging? highlight of the MTV 10 Spot performance was Sister Morphine.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-03 21:41 by Chris Fountain.

opener for the 1989-1990 tour.

Ha ha. My actual highlight of the Steel Wheels show I saw was Midnight Rambler! Point being, they upped the ante so to say with how they started the show and Start Me Up was the perfect notice that they weren't screwing around.

Am I the only person who actually likes the version from Still Life better than any tour since?

[thepowergoats.com]

I dunno. So far I guess but I recall in other SMU threads that there were a lot of people, at that time, that did not like how SMU was played on the 89/90 tours.

These two start me up...

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jamesfdouglas
Am I the only person who actually likes the version from Still Life better than any tour since?

Well, you and Chris Fountain . .(lol)
I think it sounds terrible on Still Life. And the song sucked on most dates of that 81/82 tour.

Ive kind of gone back and forth on this one, Quite Honestley Never really a favorite of mine live. it was fun seeing it at the first couple shows I went to since I've only seen the stones Three times, and its a classic. But I prefer the album version. any live version is not one I find myself listening to on repeat. Or finding one part and rewinding to hear it again going 'thats cool'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-03 23:17 by ryanpow.

Isle of white version is my fave,
loads of energy, and at long last ronnie nails the solo,
and take the song to another level.
check it out on youtube.... superb

None

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

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skipstone
behroez, I've been on stage with the lights in my eyes and everyone watching and blah blah blah.

You? What. That's what I thought.

Don't be so impatient i am not behind the comp the whole day (though my family accuses me of being there). but nice of you asking me. In 1988 i had nowhere to return back to, so i went to South Africa and found myself a job in Herschel which was at that time a part of Transkei. Anyway as a kind of therapy whenever i managed to arrange a couple of days off, i crossed the border with my backpack into the Maluti mountains of Lesotho, that reminded me (at least the mountains around Mokhotlong) of the mountains in northern Iran where we used to go with the whole family during the holidays in better times (before Saddam's scuds destroyed the family's house, and all in it, in Tehran). So one day beginning 1989 instead of walking in the mountains and staying in the rural villages i set off for Sehlabathebe to stay there in the lodge and walk around the national park for a few days. Lesotho is not really a tourist destination so mostly i was the only visitor anywhere, but this time to my surprise there was a little group of South African whites. So at night i joined them, they were at first a bit distant which is unusual for Afrikaners but very quickly they warmed up and were as open and hospital as Afrikaners can be. They started speaking English to include me (i didn't speak Afrikaans back than) and we had a nice conversation about Tokoloshis (even the Afrikaners believe in them, they are more African than they want to admit really) and i spoke of Jinn and the "az ma behtarun" ("the better than us" fairy like creatures believed to live in the mountains of northern Iran). Anyway, there was one very pretty girl which in particulair seemed to feel at ease with me (and i with her), sometimes the group started talking in Afrikaans, about business i presumed, which she didn't like (it was a get away after all), she would say something with an irritated look in her eyes in Afrikaans to the rest of the group, and smiling turned to me to continue our conversation in English. In the couple of days we stayed there we grew closer and closer and in the morning we would sneak out to be just together in the park without the others. Anyway it was time to returm to my job in Herschel, i gave her my phone number. About two weeks later she called me and said, she had been thinking about me for the past two weeks (and i about her), she told me to go to Maseru and take the plane to Johannesburg, where i will be picked up to meet her. So i did, but instead of her standing there with an old car i was really picked up by a taxi, i thought she's busy at the office and can't come herself. I was brought to a hotel. There was a tide security in the hotel and a phonecall had to be made before i got in, i remember thinking, the prime minister must be here and she is his secretary or something. But she had her own room there and trembling with nerves one of the first things she said when i saw her again was that for the first time in a long time she had met some one who treated her like a normal person. Ofcourse i treated her like a normal person because i had no idea that she was a worldfamous singer (worldfamous in south Africa and Namibia that is). Well, she is my wife now (and not so famous anymore), but back than for about one and a half year i was there with her touring through the RSA and Namibia (S-W Africa back than), going with her to radio shows, interviews, television, you name it. In order to break through internationally we moved to Europe (Holland, a bit the same language), and she was so relieved that she could just walk over the streets without being recognised. We had to start from scratch because no one knew her outside of southern Africa. But that was good because it gave her the oasis to think it over if she really wanted it. And....no, she didn't (thank God for that, family now and nobody here in the steet has a clue of her famous past). You know the grass is always greener on the other side, you may think fame is great, but it ain't really (but ofcourse you know this being a popstar yourself).
So to answer your question, no i haven't but my wife has, and i've been awfully close to that whole thing. Mine, to you maybe awkward, responses are coming from the inside view of the business, because like i said before it is just a business, the rest is fantasy.
But back to your remark about Keith's sidekick, you just can't please everyone. If you don't move you're a El-Stifo and if you do move you're overdoing it etc. From what i see on this video is that the Stones overwhelmed everyone there and without a doubt were the best act that night and had impressed the front row, the potential buyers who may never have bothered about the Stones before, but sortenly will since, and that is what it is about, selling yourself, and the Stones are superb in that.

Hey, behroez, I just said yes to the playing on stage part. As Charlie Brown says, good grief.

Personally I always liked the Still Life version, even if it was breathless. It sounded exciting. It's the first Stones album I got.

But of course 1990 seeing them live for the first time at Wembley and opening with Start Me Up.. after all those years never dreaming to see them live... well, nothing compares to that!

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skipstone
Hey, behroez, I just said yes to the playing on stage part. As Charlie Brown says, good grief.

Yes??? And i aknowledged that didn't i?
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>> but ofcourse you know that being a popstar yourself<<

I was merely responding to exactly that message where you said at the end
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>>You? What. That's what i thought<<

Had you forgotten your own response allready?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-04 00:39 by behroez.

Agree, it was cool when they played it without the background singers, only if I see Lisa and Bernard singing to Start Me Up I could hate that song, even though Start Me Up is one of my very favourite songs by anybody. I love the studio version the most, live I think Flashpoint is great but Barcelona 1990 is the best, it's like a thunderstorm. After Bill left the song was boring live. Though the slow intro like Bremen 1998 was kinda cool. And of course the kinda jam versions of the 81/82 tour was great too because the song never sounded the same. Ron Wood's solos were great in 89/90, reminds me of a formula one car. ;-) But today his solos on that track are annoying and I would just listen to the Tattoo You tour versions of Start Me Up where you would just hear that guitar riff and no f***ing solos. ^^

BTW Even though the lyrics to that song are so easy I never heard a version where Mick sung it correctly live.

Love is Strong is such a great song done live. I wish they'd do it more often!!

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behroez

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skipstone
behroez, I've been on stage with the lights in my eyes and everyone watching and blah blah blah.

You? What. That's what I thought.

Don't be so impatient i am not behind the comp the whole day (though my family accuses me of being there). but nice of you asking me. In 1988 i had nowhere to return back to, so i went to South Africa and found myself a job in Herschel which was at that time a part of Transkei. Anyway as a kind of therapy whenever i managed to arrange a couple of days off, i crossed the border with my backpack into the Maluti mountains of Lesotho, that reminded me (at least the mountains around Mokhotlong) of the mountains in northern Iran where we used to go with the whole family during the holidays in better times (before Saddam's scuds destroyed the family's house, and all in it, in Tehran). So one day beginning 1989 instead of walking in the mountains and staying in the rural villages i set off for Sehlabathebe to stay there in the lodge and walk around the national park for a few days. Lesotho is not really a tourist destination so mostly i was the only visitor anywhere, but this time to my surprise there was a little group of South African whites. So at night i joined them, they were at first a bit distant which is unusual for Afrikaners but very quickly they warmed up and were as open and hospital as Afrikaners can be. They started speaking English to include me (i didn't speak Afrikaans back than) and we had a nice conversation about Tokoloshis (even the Afrikaners believe in them, they are more African than they want to admit really) and i spoke of Jinn and the "az ma behtarun" ("the better than us" fairy like creatures believed to live in the mountains of northern Iran). Anyway, there was one very pretty girl which in particulair seemed to feel at ease with me (and i with her), sometimes the group started talking in Afrikaans, about business i presumed, which she didn't like (it was a get away after all), she would say something with an irritated look in her eyes in Afrikaans to the rest of the group, and smiling turned to me to continue our conversation in English. In the couple of days we stayed there we grew closer and closer and in the morning we would sneak out to be just together in the park without the others. Anyway it was time to returm to my job in Herschel, i gave her my phone number. About two weeks later she called me and said, she had been thinking about me for the past two weeks (and i about her), she told me to go to Maseru and take the plane to Johannesburg, where i will be picked up to meet her. So i did, but instead of her standing there with an old car i was really picked up by a taxi, i thought she's busy at the office and can't come herself. I was brought to a hotel. There was a tide security in the hotel and a phonecall had to be made before i got in, i remember thinking, the prime minister must be here and she is his secretary or something. But she had her own room there and trembling with nerves one of the first things she said when i saw her again was that for the first time in a long time she had met some one who treated her like a normal person. Ofcourse i treated her like a normal person because i had no idea that she was a worldfamous singer (worldfamous in south Africa and Namibia that is). Well, she is my wife now (and not so famous anymore), but back than for about one and a half year i was there with her touring through the RSA and Namibia (S-W Africa back than), going with her to radio shows, interviews, television, you name it. In order to break through internationally we moved to Europe (Holland, a bit the same language), and she was so relieved that she could just walk over the streets without being recognised. We had to start from scratch because no one knew her outside of southern Africa. But that was good because it gave her the oasis to think it over if she really wanted it. And....no, she didn't (thank God for that, family now and nobody here in the steet has a clue of her famous past). You know the grass is always greener on the other side, you may think fame is great, but it ain't really (but ofcourse you know this being a popstar yourself).
So to answer your question, no i haven't but my wife has, and i've been awfully close to that whole thing. Mine, to you maybe awkward, responses are coming from the inside view of the business, because like i said before it is just a business, the rest is fantasy.
But back to your remark about Keith's sidekick, you just can't please everyone. If you don't move you're a El-Stifo and if you do move you're overdoing it etc. From what i see on this video is that the Stones overwhelmed everyone there and without a doubt were the best act that night and had impressed the front row, the potential buyers who may never have bothered about the Stones before, but sortenly will since, and that is what it is about, selling yourself, and the Stones are superb in that.

Great story, behroez, but what we really want to know is: What is your wife's opinion of Mick Taylor?

I'm joking! Please don't get angry. Cheers.

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S.T.P
These two start me up...

Yeah, that's Oslo-version was punk-ish and raw. I was there

defenitly urban jungle version.

Part of what make the 89/90 versions is what Woody is doing throughout the song, that under the riff lurking kind of playing he does, the back side and the bending, the low notes.

What's interesting about the Flashpoint version compared to all the other versions I've heard is that pause they do where Charlie just plays a wisp of hi-hat. Or something like that.

Cheers,
Wuudy

So there are a few editing errors performance wise in this At The Max Start Me Up - one shows, at about 54 seconds in, Charlie doing a roll into the chorus - except he's already playing the ride when he does the roll and you can see Mick walk across stage left - then they go back out front and you see that actual same moment happen in real time from the other side.

And then Woody's guitar solo where they show Charlie hitting his crash while Woody is playing except, heh heh, it's not the actual moment because Woody can be seen NOT playing his guitar but rather doing some silly pose.

The other film overdubs in this are not as glaringly obvious, like the opening band footage minus the crowd...

at the max was actually filmed after a show on that tour...you knew that, skippy, right?

STEEL WHEELS
Atlantic City PPV - of course the mix on this sounds great although on this video it clips a little






URBAN JUNGLE
Barcelona - this one is killer! Was this some kind of special over there, like how Atlantic City was for the US?

Not a big fan of the 89/90 tour. But have to agree when it comes to "Start Me Up". Definately the best live version.

Probobly the only song where I prefer the 89/90 version to 81/82.

89/90 for me too.
81/82 it seems like the song had't found its live form yet, but it surely had in 89/90.
On later tours it became somewhat less inspired although there are some good versions. (Based on the versions I've heard of course...)

[www.reverbnation.com]