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Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: January 26, 2010 20:44

this sure is hard to believe for me knowing how jagger works and all !

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: jamesfdouglas ()
Date: January 26, 2010 20:44

I think the Ghostbusters have Brian locked away in their containment unit, maybe they can let him out for a bit in the studio, you know, provided his ghosty hands can manipulate a gutar...

[thepowergoats.com]

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: ghostryder13 ()
Date: January 26, 2010 20:57

i seriously doubt taylor's involved

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: gripweed ()
Date: January 26, 2010 21:21

Quote
pmk251
I think the responses here are off track. THE news here is if Jagger called Taylor into the studio. IF true, it warms my heart. Not for the musical product that comes of it (although that is intriguing), not for a potential tour (although THAT is intriguing as well), but for Taylor's peace of mind after all these years.

Jagger's relationship with Taylor is fascinating for what little is written about it. They were collaborators in the studio. You often see them traveling together in a car. Clearly, Jagger was tuned in to what Taylor did on stage. He constantly cued, encouraged, prodded and approved of Taylor's playing. When Jagger said "play," Taylor played. There is no doubt in my mind that Jagger was proud to have Taylor as the band's lead guitarist. If Jagger had any aspirations that the band's music could be considered high art, those aspirations were linked to Taylor's playing. Just as Keith and Jagger validated each others' contributions, Taylor validated the final product. To me it is thrilling to watch Taylor with his guitar walk on stage with the band. The band charismatic? Yes. Exciting? Yes. But Taylor added a level of sophistication and beauty. He was musical quality assurance.

But by all accounts Jagger has been cool to Taylor (at best) since he quit. He is certainly tight lipped about Taylor and why he left.

One can imagine what a burden it has been for Taylor since he left the band, a burden he has had to carry for 35 years. All the questions, all the reminders, what is and what was. Assuming this information is true, I am happy for Taylor if working with his old colleague brings him some peace of mind and some recognition and appreciation of his talent. Who knows? Maybe in some measure that is why he quit.

FINALLY Somebody understands the Magnitude of all this

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: January 26, 2010 21:43

NO ONE wants to see Mick Taylor rejoin the Stones for any concert or NEW studio work they do more than I do. However his playing may have deteriorated in the last 35 years, I would far rather see him with the Stones than any other guitarist. I would also love to see justice finally served and Mick Taylor given the credit and royalty payments owed him.

But for him (or Keith, Mick, Bill or Charlie) to overdub 40 year old material and present it as authentic is utterly fraudulent, though perhaps not technically fraudulent.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: ajc68 ()
Date: January 26, 2010 21:52

I'm shocked at the negative responses in this thread. I've been hearing for years how cool would it be to get Taylor back in some capacity, even if it was just the Mick's talking again. Well? If the reports are true, they are not tampering with the original album, something that WOULD and SHOULD draw criticism. Rather, they are trying to touch up some basic tracks that are too rough to release otherwise. If Taylor is in the studio adding guitar to them, how that can be anything but intriguing to a Stones fan. Nobody is expecting this to be 1972, so why the hang-ups? It's either this or NEVER have the tracks released. I guess people will bitch about anything, including Mick Taylor recording for the Stones again (if true). And if this is true, I'm very happy for Mick Taylor...

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: January 26, 2010 22:09

Quote
ajc68
I'm shocked at the negative responses in this thread. I've been hearing for years how cool would it be to get Taylor back in some capacity, even if it was just the Mick's talking again. Well? If the reports are true, they are not tampering with the original album, something that WOULD and SHOULD draw criticism. Rather, they are trying to touch up some basic tracks that are too rough to release otherwise. If Taylor is in the studio adding guitar to them, how that can be anything but intriguing to a Stones fan. Nobody is expecting this to be 1972, so why the hang-ups? It's either this or NEVER have the tracks released. I guess people will bitch about anything, including Mick Taylor recording for the Stones again (if true). And if this is true, I'm very happy for Mick Taylor...

The voice of reason. I think some people here secretly don't want Mick Taylor involved because the results could be great, and they would have to face unfavorable comparisons with a certain other guitarist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-26 22:15 by 71Tele.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: January 26, 2010 22:57

A while back in some other thread there was talk about the absurdity of The Who reissuing some album with NEW vocals on tracks that were 30 some years old. Can't remember if there was new guitar added.

Well that's what's possibly happening with this.

It's just crazy to think that they'd finish some tracks for the sake of bonus material instead of just releasing them. If they were to do something like Tattoo You then fine - but they didn't go as far back to finish things then as they are now. Tops and Waiting On A Friend and then Slave and Worried About You being bottomed for Goats Head Soup and Black And Blue but held over and listened to and worked on during sessions for either Some Girls and/or Emotional Rescue and some vocals and saxophone overdubbed in 1980 and 1981 is one thing - but to just haul out something they have never listened to and decide to add new tracks to it? That's not the same thing. Listening to So Young on the single - it just sounds like they mixed it, it doesn't sound like it has a new vocal. Now WHY they even bothered with it is still a mystery. There was certainly plenty of other leftover material from the Voodoo sessions they could have finished.

That's what's so bizarre about it, the time line and how it's going to be like that Who reissue of that is the case. Hopefully they'll sound good if that is indeed what they've been doing. As far as I can tell there has been no official word in any capacity stating that that is the case; the only thing that's been done is mixes by Don Was.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 26, 2010 22:58

Quote
Bliss
But for him (or Keith, Mick, Bill or Charlie) to overdub 40 year old material and present it as authentic is utterly fraudulent, though perhaps not technically fraudulent.

What a nonsense. I don't give a damn if Taylor does overdubs or Darryl or Woody or whom else. Outtakes are outtakes they are not complete songs, just skeletons who needs to be clothed with flesh and bone, to make them complete. If you want to hear only Jagger improvising a text he's not sure of yet over an overenthusiastic guitar riff, that still needs some trimming, while the bass is missing etc, then i'm sure there are enough bootlegs to get that quality from. But if we want a good album (and i do) than ofcourse it needs to be re-mixed, dubbed, added on etc, i would say GREAT! whom ever fitts the bill, why not? There is for example that lovely outtake of the Satanic sessions called Gold Painted Fingernails, it's just an organ, drums and mouthharp, but it sounds great, i would love to see the Stones pick it up and fill it in, would be interresting than we would get Ron Wood playing with Brian,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-26 23:00 by behroez.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: January 26, 2010 23:05

Quote
Bliss
But for him (or Keith, Mick, Bill or Charlie) to overdub 40 year old material and present it as authentic is utterly fraudulent, though perhaps not technically fraudulent.

Fraudulent is if you pretend that they are the orignals.

I don't mind if they overdub those unfinisched songs, I think we all got those songs on bootleg already,

__________________________

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Hot Meat Pie ()
Date: January 26, 2010 23:13

Let's wait until the new Exile CD is out there and we can listen to it and then perhaps make informed comments or judgements on our views. I'm sure it will be better than we hope or anticipate. I think we are lucky it was even mooted or produced.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Blueranger ()
Date: January 26, 2010 23:16

quote]Absolutely! Its shocking to see how history-fixed some people here are. Unfinished stuff is for bootlegs! I dont wanna hear a track like Highway Child with only lead vocals, one guitar and drums on an official record! I have it in great quality on bootleg already! If the Stones have great ideas to finish this track with bass, keyboards, lead guitar, proper lyrics whatever else, they should do it! There may be other "bare naked" demos of this nature which otherwise would not be releasable at all. Would anyone here prefer them to stay in the vaults?

I once listened to Buddy Hollys Browneyed Handsome Man original demo compared to the well-known version that was completed with overdubs after his death. As interesting as the demo is, I still prefer the released version and dont care a shit if it was overdubbed after his death because its F***ING GOOD! And thats all what counts![/quote]

Hit the bottom of the nail. Exactly my words!

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: sweet neo con ()
Date: January 26, 2010 23:52

i guess it's sort of like when the remaining beatles added to Lennon's FREE AS A BIRD etc... for the ANthology releases...
they took an old unreleased song and "finished" it. Doubt that the Stones fixes will be as dramatc..merely adding bits and
pieces to finish an existing song instead of sculpting a new one.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-26 23:53 by sweet neo con.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: January 26, 2010 23:53

Quote
sweet neo con
i guess it's sort of like when the remaining beatles added to Lennon's FREE AS A BIRD etc... for the ANthology releases...
they took an old unreleased song and "finished" it. Doubt that the Stones fixes will be as dramatc..merely adding bits and
pieces to finish an existing song instead of sculpting a new one.

Yes, especially as they are not using any tapes from a dead person!

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Deluxtone ()
Date: January 26, 2010 23:55

IF they have found old unfinished Exile-era tracks ....

and IF they need some lead guitar to help finish them ....

WHAT on earth would be more natural and fitting than to ask the Exile-era lead guitarist to add those touches?

IF there are such tracks and they need a special, authentic touch it would seem wrong to use anyone else, frankly.

I think it's unkikely tht Jagger has asked Taylor - but how should I/we know?


But just another thought - if it has happened - and if the re-release is succesful
-


why not some Exile shows - or at least an Exile mini-set - with some original members .....

... now THAT is a context (ie with 'new' and revived-improved product to promote) where we may get MT and possibly BW guesting with the hardcore .....

the 'new' songs might well be a highlight - esp if Mick J were playing Rhythm!

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Deluxtone ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:23

Gazza,

re Tatoo You - it has some very good SG out-takes -

- but then they didn't have enough good material to make a 'new' album and so had to go back to early-mid seventies to get material to strengthen and complete the album.

I'm glad we got what we got and that they finished such good tracks - but I don't think they had to do much to Slave, Tops or Waiting or Worried.

It was hardly 'Stones back on form with fantastic new album', however.

( I think there's a difference between a 2-3 year gestation period for tracks that appear on Sticky, Exile and Soup - and then (especially after the virtual rebirth of the band in 77-78) having to go back 6-9 years to the Mach II period in order to make a good MACH III album).



I wouldn't have a problem with them working on 40-year old tracks for a forthcoming re-issue - because they'd genuinely be trying to complete the tracks in the original style - and not in any way (as I felt in the case of TY) passing lot of it off as new product.

Perhaps 'Blowing in the Seventies' would have been an apter title?!

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:24

As long as Jagger doesn't sing new lead vocals i don't mind. It's difficult for Jagger if he did because he no longer sounds like he did in 72, but a guitar doesn't age, and Mick Taylor is still in very good shape as a guitar player. I don't want the tracks to lose their rawness however, i don't feel slick overproduction is appropriate.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Deluxtone ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:29

Come to think of it - how about a Seventies Out-takes/Rarities Tour, (to include much of TY and the the Mach II and Mach III Vaults)!

Could be their best yet!

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Deluxtone ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:32

Quote
Edward Twining
As long as Jagger doesn't sing new lead vocals i don't mind. It's difficult for Jagger if he did because he no longer sounds like he did in 72, but a guitar doesn't age, and Mick Taylor is still in very good shape as a guitar player. I don't want the tracks to lose their rawness however, i don't feel slick overproduction is appropriate.

Agree with that Edward - and it'd be hard to recreate the sloppy, warm Jack Daniels vibe!

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: 72stones ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:45

If this rumor is actually true, it has potentially very interesting ramifications. And yes, pmk251, that was a beautiful post. You are thinking along truely supportive lines.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:45

Quote
Deluxtone
Gazza,

re Tatoo You - it has some very good SG out-takes -

- but then they didn't have enough good material to make a 'new' album and so had to go back to early-mid seventies to get material to strengthen and complete the album.

I'm glad we got what we got and that they finished such good tracks - but I don't think they had to do much to Slave, Tops or Waiting or Worried.

It was hardly 'Stones back on form with fantastic new album', however.

The end always justifies the means IMO. I dont really care how old the songs are on each album. If its a good record, thats what matters. Most people who bought Tattoo You probably had and still have no knowledge of the fact that it was mostly reheated leftovers. The great miracle about that album is that somehow - I dont know how - it flowed together seamlessly. You wouldnt know from listening to it that the sources were so diverse.

They did a fair chunk of work on the songs, though. Mostly Jagger's vocals. However, 'Slave' and 'Waiting On A Friend' wouldnt be half the masterpieces that they turned out to be with those marvellous overdubbed sax parts by Sonny Rollins which were added in spring 1981.

Songs just often take time to evolve. The important things is that they're allowed to evolve. Exile wouldnt have been quite the masterpiece it was either had they not fleshed it out with songs from 1969-70 which then had some extra work done to them.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:55

Well I think it's a bad idea. Not that Taylor would get some credit, but the whole idea of doing overdubs on a recording that's so old.

JumpingKentFlash

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Rochdale3 ()
Date: January 27, 2010 00:59

Quote
Gazza
Quote
Deluxtone
Gazza,

re Tatoo You - it has some very good SG out-takes -

- but then they didn't have enough good material to make a 'new' album and so had to go back to early-mid seventies to get material to strengthen and complete the album.

I'm glad we got what we got and that they finished such good tracks - but I don't think they had to do much to Slave, Tops or Waiting or Worried.

It was hardly 'Stones back on form with fantastic new album', however.

The end always justifies the means IMO. I dont really care how old the songs are on each album. If its a good record, thats what matters. Most people who bought Tattoo You probably had and still have no knowledge of the fact that it was mostly reheated leftovers. The great miracle about that album is that somehow - I dont know how - it flowed together seamlessly. You wouldnt know from listening to it that the sources were so diverse.

They did a fair chunk of work on the songs, though. Mostly Jagger's vocals. However, 'Slave' and 'Waiting On A Friend' wouldnt be half the masterpieces that they turned out to be with those marvellous overdubbed sax parts by Sonny Rollins which were added in spring 1981.

Songs just often take time to evolve. The important things is that they're allowed to evolve. Exile wouldnt have been quite the masterpiece it was either had they not fleshed it out with songs from 1969-70 which then had some extra work done to them.

Excellent point about Tattoo You, it's hard to believe it comes from so many different sources. I had no idea at the time. You would think that having 1 side being rock songs and 1 side being slower ballads would make the differences even more obvious. When I first heard Start Me Up was a Some Girls reject (or earlier) I was floored. True, Mick's vocals definitely give it a feel of being done at the same time as does Chris Kimsey's production.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: January 27, 2010 01:00

Reading this thead over...don't you think it's pretty pathetic that they feel they have nothing to more to serve up but 40 year old leftovers, and even more pathetic that they want to tart them up with contributions from their old guitarist who left 35 years ago and is now aged 62?

What I say to Mick and Keith is..open the vaults, by all means...purists and completists will buy whatever you sell.

But better yet...best of all...use your god-given talent and 50 years of experience and produce some noteworthy new music before the final curtain falls.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: January 27, 2010 01:00

Ok let they overdub what ever they want and release the orginals on a separate disk and everybody is happy.............

__________________________

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: bam ()
Date: January 27, 2010 01:01

why is there any reason to take this rumor even 1/4 seriously?

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: ablett ()
Date: January 27, 2010 01:09

exactamo......

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: behroez ()
Date: January 27, 2010 01:14

Ah, Exile on Main Street is highly overrated anyway they've done much better stuff since.

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: January 27, 2010 02:10

Quote
behroez
Quote
Bliss
But for him (or Keith, Mick, Bill or Charlie) to overdub 40 year old material and present it as authentic is utterly fraudulent, though perhaps not technically fraudulent.

What a nonsense. I don't give a damn if Taylor does overdubs or Darryl or Woody or whom else. Outtakes are outtakes they are not complete songs, just skeletons who needs to be clothed with flesh and bone, to make them complete. If you want to hear only Jagger improvising a text he's not sure of yet over an overenthusiastic guitar riff, that still needs some trimming, while the bass is missing etc, then i'm sure there are enough bootlegs to get that quality from. But if we want a good album (and i do) than ofcourse it needs to be re-mixed, dubbed, added on etc, i would say GREAT! whom ever fitts the bill, why not? There is for example that lovely outtake of the Satanic sessions called Gold Painted Fingernails, it's just an organ, drums and mouthharp, but it sounds great, i would love to see the Stones pick it up and fill it in, would be interresting than we would get Ron Wood playing with Brian,


Ugh! Do we REALLY need "Frankenstones" tracks like that?

Re: Taylor Overdubbing On Exile Outtakes?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: January 27, 2010 02:11

Quote
behroez
Ah, Exile on Main Street is highly overrated anyway they've done much better stuff since.

Like what?

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