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stoneswashed77
yes, if at all, they don´t use enough backing tracks and musicians.

they don´t even lower keiths volume or mute him even when he plays minutes in the wrong key. he is loud and proud playing wrong.

Yeah something to be proud of for sure...too bad for us poor saps who shelled out big $$$ to see Keef play out of key and stop playing in the middle of a song to get a drink.....and you wonder why there are more and more empty seats each tour.........

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oldschool

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stoneswashed77
yes, if at all, they don´t use enough backing tracks and musicians.

they don´t even lower keiths volume or mute him even when he plays minutes in the wrong key. he is loud and proud playing wrong.

Yeah something to be proud of for sure...too bad for us poor saps who shelled out big $$$ to see Keef play out of key and stop playing in the middle of a song to get a drink.....and you wonder why there are more and more empty seats each tour.........

I agree with all of this and it begs the question as to why there is still so much enthusiasm here for another tour.

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71Tele

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oldschool

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stoneswashed77
yes, if at all, they don´t use enough backing tracks and musicians.

they don´t even lower keiths volume or mute him even when he plays minutes in the wrong key. he is loud and proud playing wrong.

Yeah something to be proud of for sure...too bad for us poor saps who shelled out big $$$ to see Keef play out of key and stop playing in the middle of a song to get a drink.....and you wonder why there are more and more empty seats each tour.........

I agree with all of this and it begs the question as to why there is still so much enthusiasm here for another tour.

no enthusiasm fom me Tele...If they do tour I would go day of show and try to get tix below face from people looking to unload but no more $150 tix for this boy....

I've read several people on here say that Blondie is actually playing guitar for Keith, covering for him and somtimes just playing the part for him.

I don't doubt this is true but just wondering if anyone has any proof, video, etc? And when did this start? After the fall from the tree?

<Chuck uses the middle octaves too much which steps on top of the guitars in the same frequency. Just my personal opinion...>

Agree 100%!

Whoever said that about Leavell stepping on the guitars because of his register - very good observation.
I personally do not like Leavell's style at all, but in all fairness to him I think he is trying to cover for the missing guitars. He does not have the luxury of Stu or Nicky who would dance around the midrange. They kind of went where they wanted to because they were icing. But Leavell sees that there is no main course without him clunking around in the middle.

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DeliveranceStraightwayHoliness
Whoever said that about Leavell stepping on the guitars because of his register - very good observation.
I personally do not like Leavell's style at all, but in all fairness to him I think he is trying to cover for the missing guitars. He does not have the luxury of Stu or Nicky who would dance around the midrange. They kind of went where they wanted to because they were icing. But Leavell sees that there is no main course without him clunking around in the middle.

I think you're right. But he's overdoing it, too. It's not uncommon that Chuck's "copy" of the guitar riffs are higher in the mix than the guitars on Start Me Up. There is really no need for that.

The best Vegas performer to me,great musicians, vocals, performance,passionate, soulfull,even humorous! Everything
rhymes..

Because I am seriously running out of fresh ideas I just recicle my past posts. This one, made two years ago, applies to our theme here:

-----

If the Stones - and we fans - would forget their prior 1989 days,and if the band would just concentrate on the material they have done in last 19 years, we would have a really great show. There are no probaly classics, but still strong enough material to do anything if they would have their heart on it.

Of course, this is total science fiction,buuuuuuuuutttt......

Just think about the next (un)possible set list:.

1. "Rough Justice"
2. "You Got me Rocking"
3. "Flip The Switch"

Three strong rockers to start the show, and make people sweat, then a bit slowing down:

4. "Mixed Emotions" (Mick and Keith sharing the mic, the Glimmer Twin magic fills the air)
5. "Almost Hear You Sigh" (the sea of lighters on)

and now some dance numbers for Mick and the girls to enjoy:'

6. ”Don’t Stop”
8. ”Rain Fell Down”
9. "Street of Love" (sing-a-long)
10. "Out of Control" (the first highlight, ten minutes version…)

Introduction

11. ”Slipping Away” (Keith)
12. ” You Don’t Have To Mean It” (Keith)

Okay, that was Keith, now Mick back with a total surprise:

13. ”Continental Drift” (a second higlight, joujouka guys there on stage!!)

14. ”Too Tight ” (to the b-stage)
15. ”Back of My Hand” (B-stage)
16. ”Love Is Strong” (B-stage, back to A-stage)

and the final bang...

17. ”Rock a And a Hard Place”
18. ”Highwire”
19. ”Saint of Me” (huge sing-along)

20. ”Like A Rolling Stone” (encore)

Not bad, huh?

(and I even let an obvious hit number ”Anybody Seen My Baby” out…)

- Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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DeliveranceStraightwayHoliness
Whoever said that about Leavell stepping on the guitars because of his register - very good observation.
I personally do not like Leavell's style at all, but in all fairness to him I think he is trying to cover for the missing guitars. He does not have the luxury of Stu or Nicky who would dance around the midrange. They kind of went where they wanted to because they were icing. But Leavell sees that there is no main course without him clunking around in the middle.

I think you're right. But he's overdoing it, too. It's not uncommon that Chuck's "copy" of the guitar riffs are higher in the mix than the guitars on Start Me Up. There is really no need for that.

He isn't overdoing anything. If he's more prominent, it's because the Stones allow or want him to be. Its not as if he's insisting on it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-25 14:48 by Gazza.

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KeefintheNight82
I've read several people on here say that Blondie is actually playing guitar for Keith, covering for him and somtimes just playing the part for him.

I don't doubt this is true but just wondering if anyone has any proof, video, etc? And when did this start? After the fall from the tree?

Its become gradually more prominent with each successive tour. I dont think anyone's suggested he's playing Keith's part, though.

As for evidence - being seated near the stage or the wings helps. He can sometimes be seen standing or seated in the wings playing fills on electric guitar. Dont know about video evidence - I cant imagine too many people would be inclined to smuggle a camera into a Stones show and then focus on Blondie playing guitar instead of filming the Stones.

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Gazza

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DandelionPowderman

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DeliveranceStraightwayHoliness
Whoever said that about Leavell stepping on the guitars because of his register - very good observation.
I personally do not like Leavell's style at all, but in all fairness to him I think he is trying to cover for the missing guitars. He does not have the luxury of Stu or Nicky who would dance around the midrange. They kind of went where they wanted to because they were icing. But Leavell sees that there is no main course without him clunking around in the middle.

I think you're right. But he's overdoing it, too. It's not uncommon that Chuck's "copy" of the guitar riffs are higher in the mix than the guitars on Start Me Up. There is really no need for that.

He isn't overdoing anything. If he's more prominent, it's because the Stones allow or want him to be. Its not as if he's insisting on it.

I know, Gazza. But even the Stones may be wrong sometimes?

Clearly a matter of taste, and I can understand that Mick doesn't want to risk things falling apart. My point is, in the ideal world Chuck wouldn't have to play the SMU riff, but in between it, if you know what I mean.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-25 14:55 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman
I know, Gazza. But even the Stones may be wrong sometimes?

Clearly a matter of taste, and I can understand that Mick doesn't want to risk things falling apart. My point is, in the ideal world Chuck wouldn't have to play the SMU riff, but between it, if you know what I mean.

Well, I'm not expressing a matter of personal taste. The points made above by several people all have some validity and many have been very well made by people who appear to know what they're talking about musically. I just think its a bit unfair to personally criticise a hired hand for being too prominent or too high in the mix when the decision to allow this to be the case is the responsibility of the Stones themselves.

here's a clue - you're at a stones show and you hear some guitar playing - you notice keith and ron ain't playing - guess who? yep - that's Blondie Chaplin, ladies and gents!!! happens alot more than some folks realize....

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DandelionPowderman
<First: Some good things about the Vegas era: They went back to the studio arrangements on some songs like YCAGWYW, which had turned into an absolute mess.>

Going back to that studio version is, imo, one of the most obvious Vegas symptoms that should be avoided.

Agreed! When you aim for the studio arrangement, that's when a lot of spontaneity, creativity and innovation goes out the window.

The quotes (on the first page of this thread) from Keith and Ronnie about learning the studio arrangements in 1989 says a lot:
Keith: Over the years, you develop a simplified road version of a song that you get used to. But this time, we thought, Let's go back and listen very carefully to the records to find what we were originally going for when we made it. (...) That's why we have the enlarged line-up. Tumbling Dice without the voices is kind of bare.

They obviously took great care when rehearsing/arranging the Steel Wheels tour; they played the songs really well and fresh. But the whole philosophy of doing the studio versions is not interesting at all in the long run. I much prefer the raw '69 approach to the songs (SFTD, Street Fighting Man, JJF and Gimme Shelter are stellar examples).

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StonesTod
here's a clue - you're at a stones show and you hear some guitar playing - you notice keith and ron ain't playing - guess who? yep - that's Blondie Chaplin, ladies and gents!!! happens alot more than some folks realize....

Last few tours I would watch Keef and Ronnie meet at Charlies drum riser and stop playing and get a drink yet there was no loss of guitars...it was only momentary but always left me scratching my head...guess Blondie and Chuck were filling in the gaps??

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LieB

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DandelionPowderman
<First: Some good things about the Vegas era: They went back to the studio arrangements on some songs like YCAGWYW, which had turned into an absolute mess.>

Going back to that studio version is, imo, one of the most obvious Vegas symptoms that should be avoided.

Agreed! When you aim for the studio arrangement, that's when a lot of spontaneity, creativity and innovation goes out the window.

The quotes (on the first page of this thread) from Keith and Ronnie about learning the studio arrangements in 1989 says a lot:
Keith: Over the years, you develop a simplified road version of a song that you get used to. But this time, we thought, Let's go back and listen very carefully to the records to find what we were originally going for when we made it. (...) That's why we have the enlarged line-up. Tumbling Dice without the voices is kind of bare.

They obviously took great care when rehearsing/arranging the Steel Wheels tour; they played the songs really well and fresh. But the whole philosophy of doing the studio versions is not interesting at all in the long run. I much prefer the raw '69 approach to the songs (SFTD, Street Fighting Man, JJF and Gimme Shelter are stellar examples).

yep - not to mention the rawness of the 81 tour - the last honest-to-gawd rockn'roll tour of theirs. vegas started with steel wheels and its been vegas-baby ever since....

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StonesTod
vegas started with steel wheels and its been vegas-baby ever since....

...convincing,although I hate the term and some exceptions included...

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shortfatfanny

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StonesTod
vegas started with steel wheels and its been vegas-baby ever since....

...convincing,although I hate the term and some exceptions included...

it's just a word - and, besides, mama told me you can't hate inanimate objects

I wholeheartidly agree that one of the Vegas symptoms is the idealogy of going to copy the originals. In 1989 The Stones started listening to their old records and trying to re-create the amosphere with their big band. Even in the early days when they did covers htey usually tried to find some angle of their own to the song. But the idea of trying to sound like they did 30-40 years ago... That's Vegas. And that's nostalgy.

That also seriously conflicts with the idea I get used to with the Stones; it was fascinating how they re-arranged the songs into live conexts, and how the songs started to like live their own life. For example, it was exciting to listen "Sympathy For The Devil" in BEGGARS, then in YA-YA'S and finally in LOVE YOU LIVE. Or "Under My Thumb": AFTERMATH->GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!->GIMME SHELTER (movie)->STILL LIFE - huh! (with "Satisfaction use the same route - and add Hyde Park and i.e. LEEDS STONES bootleg,) I think someone once said that if one wants to hear the song as it is performed in studio, then buy the record and listen to it. The point of doing it live is to offer something else. As a kid I learned to expect something 'different' than the studio version when entered to a concert. I think it was natural, like unspoken rule of the game.

The Stones followed this policy all the way from 1962 to 1982. Then something happened.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-25 16:29 by Doxa.

I agree with the fact that the Vegas era tours are nothing compared to some of the pre Vegas shows. But it seems some guys here are making a caricature out of it. Is Chuck really needed to fill in on the Start Me Up guitar parts? I mean, I can play Start Me Up, and I am the worst guitar player in the world.

Just an exempale; the version of Can't you hear me knocking on Live Licks really kicks ass. It's a really good played song. I don't hear guitarists here who need help with the simplest songs in the world. And few years later they can't even play Start Me Up anymore?

What's next, they need bamboo sticks in their pants to stand up straight?

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Alef
I agree with the fact that the Vegas era tours are nothing compared to some of the pre Vegas shows. But it seems some guys here are making a caricature out of it. Is Chuck really needed to fill in on the Start Me Up guitar parts? I mean, I can play Start Me Up, and I am the worst guitar player in the world.

Just an exempale; the version of Can't you hear me knocking on Live Licks really kicks ass. It's a really good played song. I don't hear guitarists here who need help with the simplest songs in the world. And few years later they can't even play Start Me Up anymore?

What's next, they need bamboo sticks in their pants to stand up straight?

i take humbrage at your characterization of your guitar playing. i'll meet you anytime, anyplace to see who is worse....

I bet Mick could play Start Me Up better than Keith but then would slip into Miss You anyway so no matter what it would be a disaster ha ha ha.

< Just an exempale; the version of Can't you hear me knocking on Live Licks really kicks ass. It's a really good played song. I don't hear guitarists here who need help with the simplest songs in the world. And few years later they can't even play Start Me Up anymore? >

Funny that you mentioned CYHMK Listen closely to the left speaker, and you´ll find that Ronnie isn´t playing before his solo. Another open G-guitar is added instead, probably played by Pierre...

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DandelionPowderman
< Just an exempale; the version of Can't you hear me knocking on Live Licks really kicks ass. It's a really good played song. I don't hear guitarists here who need help with the simplest songs in the world. And few years later they can't even play Start Me Up anymore? >

Funny that you mentioned CYHMK Listen closely to the left speaker, and you´ll find that Ronnie isn´t playing before his solo. Another open G-guitar is added instead, probably played by Pierre...

Most likely the guitar was overdubbed in the studio...I can't say for sure, and others may know better, but I would be surprised if any of the Stones "Live" albums did not have some form of studio improvement

No Security has one fix that I am aware of. The Last Time performance was taken from the TV Special they did.

At one point on the special while playing the riff, Ronny picks up a pair of panties and swings them around his head and the riff clearly stops. But, on the album, the riff never stops.

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KeefintheNight82
No Security has one fix that I am aware of. The Last Time performance was taken from the TV Special they did.

At one point on the special while playing the riff, Ronny picks up a pair of panties and swings them around his head and the riff clearly stops. But, on the album, the riff never stops.

so, if i'm reading you right, on the album he eschews the panties

mick taylor sucked at that.

The Last Time from No Security is from St Louis. I haven't seen it in ages but I don't recall Ronnie picking up panties!

Well it might be a bra but he does it.