And why did they not let them use their music??? That is the question .

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mitchflorida
And why did they not let them use their music??? That is the question .

Money, and original Stones music would indicate the movie's viewpoint is shared by the Stones and Klein.

Mathijs

Only the covers can be used. You hear Not fade away and some of the blues tracks in the film.

htttp://www.last.fm/user/rocknrollcola

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mitchflorida
Mick and Keith kept on Charlie and Bill Wyman long after they had to. They seem to be relatively loyal to their bandmates.

We have documentary film of Brian constantly showing up to performances and in the studio completely shit-faced stoned. He had also 5 children by five different women, starting from when he was in his early 20s.

Yeah, Bill Wyman really seems to like how M&K treated him, Brian and Charlie back in the 60's. Charlie is like Ringo...he just accept everything.

What documentary are you talking about? I would love to see it.

The thing with Brian and his children is really a sad story. I wonder if he did all this to get back at his parents? But it has got nothing to do with the issues between the Stones and Brian anyway.

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mitchflorida
What was so shocking about it?


How many times can a performer show up stoned at a filming before he has to be cashiered? They ended up tossing the movie in the trash , didn't they?

The most shocking thing about the RnR Circus is that you can really see the rift between Brian and the band. They ignore him and have him isolated on stage on his own little platform. They also erased his electric guitar in the mix (although some claim it can still be heard deep in the background) when they finally released the whole thing. It was probably this that kept Mick from realeasing it since it would make fans wonder and the media to speculate. Brian was still very popular among fans wich meant money. A nasty rumour claimed that they didn't even tell him where they were going to rehearse...but that is after all only a rumour.

Brian does look like a shadow in this concert but I'm not so sure he was "that" stoned as he does a hell of a job on No Expectations and seems to be pretty awake. But I do think that he felt that he wasn't welcome at all anymore. He cried backstage and he looks pretty depressed during the show except when he is in focus.

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mitchflorida
Mick and Keith kept on Charlie and Bill Wyman long after they had to. They seem to be relatively loyal to their bandmates.

Mick and Keith are in no position of authority to do otherwise and never have been.

Contrary to the impression you're trying to create here, they dont 'own' the Rolling Stones.

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mitchflorida
We have documentary film of Brian constantly showing up to performances and in the studio completely shit-faced stoned

er...no we don't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-23 23:51 by Gazza.

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mitchflorida
...

(P.S. The DVD is available for about $3 on Amazon.) [www.amazon.com]...

Ok thanks i will check!

HMN

Brian was pretty good on No Expectations, but the entire band seemed rather off on that night. Just the vibes weren't good and the sound wasn't very tight.

Highlight of the evening had to be Yoko Ono singing with the All-Stars Clapton, Lennon , and Keith Richards.

She has amazing talent , I could listen to her voice for hours on end! Very meaningful screaming and screeching as well. You can't find that sort of thing easily.

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mitchflorida
Brian was pretty good on No Expectations, but the entire band seemed rather off on that night. Just the vibes weren't good and the sound wasn't very tight.

Highlight of the evening had to be Yoko Ono singing with the All-Stars Clapton, Lennon , and Keith Richards.

She has amazing talent , I could listen to her voice for hours on end! Very meaningful screaming and screeching as well. You can't find that sort of thing easily.

Yes, Yoko is incredible alright, and I get the feeling you already have listened
to her voice for hours on end..... several times.

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Mathijs
Just to put the record straight: Jagger is not in the position to deny the use of '63 to '70 Stones songs as he does not own the publishing rights. ABKCO/Klein holds the rights, and they did not allow any songs the used in this movie.

Mathijs

You're right, the Stones do not own the publishing rights to their back catalogue, but Abkco did not allow Stones music to be used because the surviving Stones did not endorse the film. I was told this by someone who works at Abkco. I guess Abkco did it out of respect for the surviving Stones.

Rob

Some original Rolling Stones songs they could have used:

The early instrumental "Stoned" running over the opening credits.

"2000 Light Years From Home" during the scene where Brian is taking LSD. (instead of White Rabbit by Jefferson Airplane)

"I Can't Get No Satisfaction" during the scene where Brian is in bed with 3 gorgeous girls and then being whipped by one of them

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" over the closing credits.



Any other song suggestions?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-24 19:16 by mitchflorida.

I just watched this for the first time. Fantastic settings and scenery and it really makes the RS story come alive. I thought Ben Whishaw was great as Keith. The ending was very good.

But there are a lot of accounts of how nasty both Brian and Frank Thorogood were and this doesn't come across at all, apart from Brian beating Anita up with the two Moroccan prostitutes. I laughed when she said he couldn't get it up unless he hit her; I'd never heard that. If anyone tried that with me, he'd be wearing his balls for earrings.

Stream it here: Stoned

The most shocking thing about the RnR Circus is that you can really see the rift between Brian and the band. They ignore him and have him isolated on stage on his own little platform.
[/quote]

I think that started early, the isolation. By sometime in 1965 Bill has moved to Keith's side and never left. I've never read/heard that addressed. Also Brian, and then Bill, never sang on stage again. Brian never danced about again. Someone must have talked to them.

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Lady Jayne
I am rather surprised to read the comments about Mick trying to suppress this film or refusing to allow Stones songs to be used. I was involved in the PR for some early showings of the film at which Stephen Wooley spoke and my recollection is that he told us it was an artistic decision not to use any of the Jagger/Richards music of the period in order to underpin Jones decisive influence on the Stones early musical direction before the Jagger/Richards songwriting partnership flourished. Similarly, there was no suggestion that Mick had in any way hindered production, although there were legal issues surrounding the portrayal of the investigation into Jones' death - in particular, the film could not be made until a certain party had died.

From the research I did for Rawlings’ book I know Lady Jayne’s comment is spot on. Lady Jayne, if you feel like it, we could exchange e-mails regarding the certain party you mention. Paul@psc-a.nl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-03-22 20:29 by paulspendel.

In Woolley’s original script it says “Mo and Jeff” watched the killing. Jeff was John Betsworth. He died in 1998. Mo was Maurice Tucker. He died in 2001.

And exactly how did they kill him? Is there a police report that considers fowl play? Has anyone seen such a document? Sign of a struggle? Ligature marks? Its very unlikely if someone was holding Brian underwater that he wouldn't have fought back, at least to breathe. So far absolutely nothing has surfaced to indicate such.

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24FPS
By sometime in 1965 Bill has moved to Keith's side and never left. I've never read/heard that addressed. Also Brian, and then Bill, never sang on stage again. Brian never danced about again. Someone must have talked to them.

A practical solution to Brian playing organ onstage by the late 1965 North American tour and dulcimer as well during 1966/67 which took up more space onstage.

Brian, for most part, stopped doing backing vocals at sessions after 1964, so it makes sense he'd also stop doing so live. Bill sang backing vocals right up to and including the 1967 European tour.

Brian boogied onstage right through to the 1968 NME Poll winners concert. Not much room to do so at R&R Circus, but it's not like he stands still.

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originalstones

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Mathijs
Just to put the record straight: Jagger is not in the position to deny the use of '63 to '70 Stones songs as he does not own the publishing rights. ABKCO/Klein holds the rights, and they did not allow any songs the used in this movie.

Mathijs

You're right, the Stones do not own the publishing rights to their back catalogue, but Abkco did not allow Stones music to be used because the surviving Stones did not endorse the film. I was told this by someone who works at Abkco. I guess Abkco did it out of respect for the surviving Stones.

Rob

No, they did it because they just own the publishing rights, but not the personal rights inherent in composer's copyrights that as such can't be transfered or sold or whatever. These include the right of composers to allow or veto their compositions in advertising, political campaigns, movie soundtracks and whatever else. When Jagger/Richards say that they don't want to be associated with the movie by having their compositions included in the soundtrack, there's nothing ABKCO can do about it.

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His Majesty

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24FPS
By sometime in 1965 Bill has moved to Keith's side and never left. I've never read/heard that addressed. Also Brian, and then Bill, never sang on stage again. Brian never danced about again. Someone must have talked to them.

A practical solution to Brian playing organ onstage by the late 1965 North American tour and dulcimer as well during 1966/67 which took up more space onstage.

Brian, for most part, stopped doing backing vocals at sessions after 1964, so it makes sense he'd also stop doing so live. Bill sang backing vocals right up to and including the 1967 European tour.

Brian boogied onstage right through to the 1968 NME Poll winners concert. Not much room to do so at R&R Circus, but it's not like he stands still.

I'm talking about Brian's wild prancing and screaming vocals at the '64 NME concert. And the overplaying of his harmonica part on Not Fade Away. That Brian disappeared, replaced by a more subdued Brian. I don't see Bill singing much after they started doing Time Is On My Side. Of course they all sang Woo Woos on Sympathy, but that doesn't really count.

Nevermind.

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His Majesty
Nevermind.