what song, when recorded, when released?
essentially what is the first song they played in Open G is my question.
i've got varying ideas and sources but theenk, (not sure) i have it nailed...
someone more sure-footed about this know 4 sure? ty



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 17:54 by Beelyboy.

Brian's using open G tuning on Little Red Rooster, no?
is that what you mean?

Is he? that's interesting...i was thinking about it and then started to research it, but i'm YEARS off...and can't verify it with multiple sources.
really interested in knowing.
wiki credits ry cooder on wyman-penned 'downtown suzie'
keno's credits for the number go like this:
"Recorded May 13 - 18, 1968. Released in June, 1975 on the album Metamorphosis"

& wiki has said, (and we can change it if it's wrong i believe!)
___

"The 1975 Rolling Stones compilation album Metamorphosis features an uncredited Cooder on Bill Wyman's "Downtown Suzie", which is also the first Rolling Stones song played and recorded in the open G tuning. Ry Cooder is credited on Van Morrison's critically acclaimed 1979 album, Into the Music for slide guitar on the song, 'Full Force Gail'."
_____

i'm really curious about this...ty for responding...i'm searchin' rooster now as best i can.
(wiki has other cool stones-related info regarding cooper as well, (which go extreeemely well with wasabi-coated peas btw)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 17:09 by Beelyboy.

Yes, Brian used Open G for 'Little Red Rooster' as well as 'I Can't Be Satisfied'.

The recording sessions with Ry were in spring 1969, not 1968.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 17:10 by His Majesty.

cool; good to know...lots of conflicting facts among some of these sources, eh?
ty. shoulda known to just come here first.
_____
Is the recording date ala keno for 'downtown suzie' correct?
is it 'generally accepted' that ry played on that uncredited?

I sometimes wonder how much ry had an influence on keith's turning to 'open g' for so many of the classic rhythm riffs in that tuning...or whether keith had come by this via graham or other players...

so maybe a better, or an added question would be when did keith start playing, recording, maybe even writing, in 'open g' ? would there be a particular song, or set of songs...that could be nailed down? post 'sister morphine' contributions on lib?
whatever kicked it off for Keith, he sure went his own way with it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 17:23 by Beelyboy.

please do correct that wikipedia entry, Beelyboy! it'll make the world a better place.

and as long as i'm at it ... i'm direly far from knowing beans about it (as i regularly make abuuundantly clear!)
but isn't it a bit off-kilter to speak of a number being "in open G"? i mean: it's a tuning, not a key ...
[passing popcorn & wasabi-coated peas]

well, haa, one COULD be IN a tuning as well a key one supposes...
whatever makes the world a better place and keeps the popcorn comin' is what i say. lol it is not abuundantly clear to me yet...but i will keep comin' back til it is...!!

>> one COULD be IN a tuning as well a key one supposes <<

indeed - but insofar as i have any idea what i'm talking about (which is not real far!)
i don't think the fact that Brian used open G tuning on Little Red Rooster means that number is "in open G".

isn't HTW Keith's first big Open G Landmark Release?

"Is the recording date ala keno for 'downtown suzie' correct?
is it 'generally accepted' that ry played on that uncredited?"

The 1968 date is wrong, according to Bill the song was recorded at the same time as the Jamming with Edward album circa May 1969.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> one COULD be IN a tuning as well a key one
> supposes <<
>
> indeed - but insofar as i have any idea what i'm
> talking about (which is not real far!)
> i don't think the fact that Brian used open G
> tuning on Little Red Rooster means that number is
> "in open G".
>
> isn't HTW Keith's first big Open G Landmark
> Release?

Yeah, the tuning is a separate thing from the key of the song. BUT the key of the song might influence you're choice in open tuning, or use of a capo etc.

HTW is the first release in which Keith uses the open G tuning.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 18:01 by His Majesty.

thanks HM - that's what i meant (and that there's no key called open G, so it's not something a number can be "in" -
that wikipedia entry seems poorly phrased, in addition to being wrong about which number it was,
and if the gallant Beelyboy's going to correct it, i'm hoping we can get it honed properly.)

meanwhile: are there pre-HTW demos/outtakes where Keith is using open G?
and: when he mentions a "5 string open" guitar on SFM, what tuning would he mean if not open G?
or is he probably misremembering that? (the quote's on this page: [www.timeisonourside.com])



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 18:24 by with sssoul.

'I think' he's maybe mixing up his memories regarding SFM, but there is a lot going on in that recording. I personally dont hear anything more than open D tuned acoustics.

I dont own or know of any pre HTW recordings in which keith uses open G. To me it seems like Ry really was the final 'inspiration' for keith taking up open G.

I wonder if Keith used open G whilst Ry was present!?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 18:30 by His Majesty.

I don't think Honky Tonk was the 1st released - of the Keef Rythym Riffin' Open G type songs. (I'm assuming any slide work doesn't count?)

Use Open G tuning, put on a slide and in a few minutes after sliding from the 5th to the 3rd fret and then an open chord you will be self taught the George Thorogood catalog.

>> I don't think Honky Tonk was the 1st released - of the Keith Rhythm Riffin' Open G type songs. <<

... which do you think was the first, then?

JaggerFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think Honky Tonk was the 1st released - of
> the Keef Rythym Riffin' Open G type songs. (I'm
> assuming any slide work doesn't count?)

Including slide...

Hey Folks, I remember reading that 'Child of the Moon' was the first song Keith wrote in open tuning but now that I think about it that may have been open E ( can't reference it right now ). Is he not jamming in open E on the Surrey Rehearsals recordings from Spring '68 ?

Ry Cooder did sessions in in mid and late 1968 in LA, recording Marianne Faithfull's Something Better and Sister Morphine, and most probably also some versions of Memo from Turner. All tracks feature slide in open G. He then recorded SM for the Stones in early 1969, also slide in open G. According to Bill Wyman, Ry Cooder plays the guitar on Downtown Suzie, so this then is the first song where open G is played WITHOUT a slide. The, from April to July 1969 they do sessions at Olympics with several songs with Keith in open G: HTW, I Don't Know Wy, I'm Going Down, Jiving sister Fanny and the early version of Loving Cup.

To me, it's never been that interesting that Brian, Ry or Keith used open G for slide. The tuning is known for 200+ years, and half of the blues records from the 30's and 40's are in open G and it's equivalent open A. The real genius to me is that Keith recognized the potential of open G for RYTHM guitar, and not only for slide work. And open G through a cranked Ampeg -that's genius.

Mathijs

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> I don't think Honky Tonk was the 1st released -
> of the Keith Rhythm Riffin' Open G type songs. <<
>
> ... which do you think was the first, then?


I think that I didn't mean to put the word 'don't' in there.
HTW is the first, is it not? Brown Sugar is almost its 'sequel'.

andrewm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Folks, I remember reading that 'Child of the
> Moon' was the first song Keith wrote in open
> tuning but now that I think about it that may have
> been open E ( can't reference it right now ). Is
> he not jamming in open E on the Surrey Rehearsals
> recordings from Spring '68 ?

Child of the Moon first appeared during 1967, but the 1968 recording has guitars using the open D tuning... and a very cool fuzz bass!

So this along with JJF is the first released recordings in which Mr Richard(s) used open tunings.

Mathijs Wrote:
The real genius to me
> is that Keith recognized the potential of open G
> for RYTHM guitar, and not only for slide work. And
> open G through a cranked Ampeg -that's genius.
>
> Mathijs

Indeed, good ol' Keith!!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-08 22:09 by His Majesty.

it's a honky tonk, honky tonk...




(hours after being informed of brian's death--is charlie lookin' up at heaven around .19 seconds in?) i think mick is live here.
also of particular note; the stuttering, staggering stop start punch of wyman's tension release thing. always kills me.

very very VERY dirty boys!!:






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-09 02:11 by Beelyboy.

Beelyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's a honky tonk, honky tonk...
>
>


> (hours after being informed of brian's death--is
> charlie lookin' up at heaven around .19 seconds
> in?) i think mick is live here.
> also of particular note; the stuttering,
> staggering stop start punch of wyman's tension
> release thing. always kills me.
>
> very very VERY dirty boys!!:
>


> d&search=


That particular Top Of The Pops version of Honky Tonk Women was record in december 1969, months after Brian's death by misadventure. I have never seen the version they recorded on the third of july 1969.

ty for the correction; i had picked that up from the youtube commenter there...
and incorrectly it seems. all apologies. my bag.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-09 02:35 by Beelyboy.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An open G through a cranked Ampeg -that's genius.

Indeed. I always thought the best part of any Stones concert
or bootleg from '75, 76, or 78 was the intro to Honky Tonk Women.
Remember, the Ampegs were gone in '81 so the tone is different.
Plus, he doesn't play it the same way anymore. Keith does it slightly faster now
and it loses its impact as to when he did it SLIGHTLY slower.
I have an Ampeg and when you crank it up and play HTW in open G,
the sound and tone is incredible. However, if you play it in standard tuning
at the third fret, it sounds like s***.

>> I have never seen the version they recorded on the third of july 1969. <<

apparently that footage has been obliterated.

The b&w pics which say 'Rolling Stones 1971 - top of the pops' in this link are actually from that 3rd of july performance. They're just over half way down the page...

[www.photofeatures.com]

Must have been a very strange day for them.

Speaking of firsts, JJF was the first #1 single with a synthesiser in it!

JaggerFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Speaking of firsts, JJF was the first #1 single
> with a synthesiser in it!

But there isn't a synth!

Uh... yes there is.

JaggerFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh... yes there is.

No, really, there isn't. Where do you hear a synth on that track?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-09 15:57 by His Majesty.