I have just read the devastating news that James Gurley of Big Brother & the Holding Company and who followed Janis to continue playing guitar for her after she left Big Brother has passed away just two days shy of his 70th birthday. I am going to miss him a tremendous deal.

may he rest in peace... brilliant guitar playing. he lived in the great times and was just in the place he should be.

Sad news. I always felt he was underrated as a guitarist.

Greetings from the Jersey Shore.

I'm still pretty upset over this news. As a result, I made a mistake in my original post. It was Sam Andrew who left Big Brother to continue playing with Janis. Please forgive that I made this error. This is a big loss to me.

Did you know him personally?

Hi boogie 1969,
I didn't know him, but this is a huge loss to me because I really took to heart the way he played. Over the years, I got really sensitive to people leveling criticism at Gurley and Andrew for how they played. They were accused of being sloppy and that they were over-indulgent. The San Francisco scene was all about being free-form. If there was a point, that was it. What the critics could never understand is that guys like Gurley, Andrew, Jerry Garcia, Quicksilver Messenger Services's John Cipollina and Jefferson Airplane's Jorma Kaukonen were trailblazers of a school of guitar playing that was a great influence upon many players who came after them and still continues to be one to this day.
On a ligher note, how can you not love a guy who got musical feedback out his guitar by strangling the neck of a Gibson SG like he did? It was a thing of beauty. He looked like a musical Paul Bunyan who was trying to choke a Redwood tree because of how tall he was.

Quote

Hi boogie 1969,
I didn't know him, but this is a huge loss to me because I really took to heart the way he played. Over the years, I got really sensitive to people leveling criticism at Gurley and Andrew for how they played. They were accused of being sloppy and that they were over-indulgent. The San Francisco scene was all about being free-form. If there was a point, that was it. What the critics could never understand is that guys like Gurley, Andrew, Jerry Garcia, Quicksilver Messenger Services's John Cipollina and Jefferson Airplane's Jorma Kaukonen were trailblazers of a school of guitar playing that was a great influence upon many players who came after them and still continues to be one to this day.
On a ligher note, how can you not love a guy who got musical feedback out his guitar by strangling the neck of a Gibson SG like he did? It was a thing of beauty. He looked like a musical Paul Bunyan who was trying to choke a Redwood tree because of how tall he was.

Please accept my sincere condolences, regardless of having never met him, I can tell this is a serious thing for you.

Speaking of that criticism you mentioned, I read a bio of Janis Joplin years back, I believe it was called appropriately enough, Janis, and I remember reading something about one of the guitarists in Big Brother. I believe it was James, because if I remember correctly it was the one who didn't follow her when she left Big Brother (please excuse my ignorance on the fine details of their history, I read that book probably 15 years ago or longer). Anyways, it was speaking about how Big Brother had a rep for being sloppy and that they didn't do Janis justice music wise (which for the record I have no opinion on, they always sounded fine to me, and I like a little sloppiness in my rock n roll). Apparently, James used to sit around playing runs on the neck constantly and was really developing a distinct and original style, but someone, or maybe multiple someones, also use to criticize him and it eventually got in his head and messed up his playing. He kind of gave up on getting to where it was he was trying to go, and just stayed at the level he was at. It seems this may have contributed to Big Brother's sound, apparently there was some truth to the criticisms about their abilities, they supposedly weren't the best musician's, although like I said, I thought they were fine. I always thought it was kind of sad that James was so affected by whoever it was that criticized him. If I remember correctly, I think it was one person in particular that really use to lay into him and say he should give it up, to the point that he did. Not playing altogether of course, he played his whole life, but of really trying to get to that level of say, a Clapton or Hendrix. Do you know anything about this? Was it James, or are my recollections of this book completely wrong?

i don't know -- maybe you had to be there to appreciate what the SF bands were doing and it was different from what the london bands or the new york bands or the los angeles bands were doing. BBHC may not have been the most musically accomplished band in critics' minds, but they had a unique sound and i always loved their shows, before and after janis. perhaps janis's star power was so overwhelming that the rest of the band never had time to catch up.

RIP: Too soon gone.

Hi Again boogie1969,
I don't believe I've ever read the book you are referring to. The one I've read that I find to have an interesting perspective concerning Janis, Scars of Sweet Paradise: The Life and Times of Janis Joplin by Alice Echols, and I can't seem to recall any mentions of incidents such as you are describing. It has been a few years since I've read this particular book as well so I may not be able to recall at this time.
However, when you mention the one particular critic who was constantly on James, it does distincly remind of me of somebody like the former music critic, Jon Landau (now Bruce Springsteen's manager), who got inside Eric Clapton's head and did almost the same thing to him as what happened to James. Eric took it personally and it affected him for quite a while. I would not be very surprised if it was Landau who was critical of the San Francisco guys as well.
What can't be overlooked in terms of where Janis was, in her place with Big Brother, is that she was part of a team back then. She wasn't Janis Joplin and Big Brother & the Holding Company. However, Joplin's talent was such that she was being scouted by music executives who wanted to try to pry her out of Big Brother so that she could be made into a bigger star. This is where Albert Grossman stepped in and basically, with Columbia's Records backing, pretty much bullied Janis out of Big Brother. One of the tactics being used was to convince Janis that she was better than the horseshit band (in Grossman's and Columbia's view) she was with and that Columbia could make her an even bigger star when she had her own billing. The fact that she took Sam Andrew along with her had to be some kind of proof that Janis still needed to have some kind of connection to somebody who knew her from the early San Francisco days in the back of her mind. Grossman and Columbia were also essentially making a concession to Janis's insistence that Andrew come along with her by telling the press that Andrew was the only good musician in Big Brother. Record companies have a long history of hurting people like James all in the name of advancing the cause of lining their pockets with more money. The sometimes do that without even knowing that it was James who was a trailblazer. Sometimes trailblazers aren't necessarily the biggest potential moneymakers.
I also want to point out to people that diane d is pointing to an important point. The San Francisco guys and gals made some great music even if they weren't perfect about their technical proficiencies. But there's an even bigger point. I'm originally from the Bay Area and one thing I'm very proud of is the fact that people in the Bay Area from the '60s and the '70s grew up to love and enjoy a great diversity of music from not just the Bay Area-but from around the world as well. We have a love of many genres and ways of approaching the music. The Bay Area scene of the '60s is just one of the many that I love. Like a lot of people here on this board and on others, we are all capable of enjoying and respecting different ways of approaching music without taking a snobbish view of the technical aspects. It just becomes a matter of deciding which ones you want to take to heart. I thank God for The Rolling Stones because I love what they brought with their own version of approaching roots music like Blues and Soul, for instance.
When you expand your musical horizons, you can set yourself so very free. It is then that you'll realize just how narrow critics can be. James will still be a hero to me in my book.

Right behind Janis


To the right, standing

Quote

Hi Again boogie1969,
I don't believe I've ever read the book you are referring to. The one I've read that I find to have an interesting perspective concerning Janis, Scars of Sweet Paradise: The Life and Times of Janis Joplin by Alice Echols, and I can't seem to recall any mentions of incidents such as you are describing. It has been a few years since I've read this particular book as well so I may not be able to recall at this time.
However, when you mention the one particular critic who was constantly on James, it does distincly remind of me of somebody like the former music critic, Jon Landau (now Bruce Springsteen's manager), who got inside Eric Clapton's head and did almost the same thing to him as what happened to James. Eric took it personally and it affected him for quite a while. I would not be very surprised if it was Landau who was critical of the San Francisco guys as well.
What can't be overlooked in terms of where Janis was, in her place with Big Brother, is that she was part of a team back then. She wasn't Janis Joplin and Big Brother & the Holding Company. However, Joplin's talent was such that she was being scouted by music executives who wanted to try to pry her out of Big Brother so that she could be made into a bigger star. This is where Albert Grossman stepped in and basically, with Columbia's Records backing, pretty much bullied Janis out of Big Brother. One of the tactics being used was to convince Janis that she was better than the horseshit band (in Grossman's and Columbia's view) she was with and that Columbia could make her an even bigger star when she had her own billing. The fact that she took Sam Andrew along with her had to be some kind of proof that Janis still needed to have some kind of connection to somebody who knew her from the early San Francisco days in the back of her mind. Grossman and Columbia were also essentially making a concession to Janis's insistence that Andrew come along with her by telling the press that Andrew was the only good musician in Big Brother. Record companies have a long history of hurting people like James all in the name of advancing the cause of lining their pockets with more money. The sometimes do that without even knowing that it was James who was a trailblazer. Sometimes trailblazers aren't necessarily the biggest potential moneymakers.
I also want to point out to people that diane d is pointing to an important point. The San Francisco guys and gals made some great music even if they weren't perfect about their technical proficiencies. But there's an even bigger point. I'm originally from the Bay Area and one thing I'm very proud of is the fact that people in the Bay Area from the '60s and the '70s grew up to love and enjoy a great diversity of music from not just the Bay Area-but from around the world as well. We have a love of many genres and ways of approaching the music. The Bay Area scene of the '60s is just one of the many that I love. Like a lot of people here on this board and on others, we are all capable of enjoying and respecting different ways of approaching music without taking a snobbish view of the technical aspects. It just becomes a matter of deciding which ones you want to take to heart. I thank God for The Rolling Stones because I love what they brought with their own version of approaching roots music like Blues and Soul, for instance.
When you expand your musical horizons, you can set yourself so very free. It is then that you'll realize just how narrow critics can be. James will still be a hero to me in my book.

I looked the book up on Amazon and it's not called Janis it's called Pearl: The Obsessions and Passions of Janis Joplin, by Ellis Amburn. D'oh!

I know you were speaking in a more broader sense about Landau's possible criticism of the S.F. area musicians, but like I said, this person that the book said criticized James was a local peer, part of the scene, possibly well known and famous, but I can't remember who it was. The book was written in 93 according to Amazon, and the copy I read was borrowed from a friend who was pretty into Janis at the time. It was a hardcover, so I probably read a first printing within a year or so of when it was published, as 93-94 sounds about right. As a lifelong rock fan, I was of course familiar with Janis and Big Brother and grew up hearing them on the radio, but I never went out of my way to get into them. I think I just picked the book up at my friend's place one day and the first few pages sucked me in, and I asked her if I could take it and read it. I remember liking it a lot. The customer reviews of it on amazon are mixed, they looked to be either 4-5 star raves, or 1 star negatives that felt is was to tabloidish because of the amount of sex and drugs in Janis's life it focused on. I remember that aspect of it, she banged everyone from most of the band to Jimi Hendrix. Women too. I thought it was really good though, and seemed very believable to me. There are books I've read about performers I don't know much about that I found hard to believe, but I felt this one was probably ok. And the author presented Janis in a good light I felt. She had a lot of sex and took a lot of drugs, but he didn't tear her apart or anything. I thought it was very informative and well-rounded, with a lot of detail about her whole life, not just after she was famous. You might like it, I remember there was a lot of stuff in it about Big Brother, it was of course a huge part of her life, and that part of the book is almost as much about their story as Janis'. He wrote how conflicted she was about them and the criticism they got and how it reflected on her. What you say about Grossman and everything jogs my memory as being similar to what the book said. She loved those guys, and they were a band, that's how they all saw it. But there did seem to be at least some legitimacy to the claims that she couldn't reach her full potential with them, and she was genuinely torn about what to do. I think it broke her heart leaving them.

Anyways, it was a shame that James was so affected by that criticism I spoke of, but he seemed to do alright in the long run form what I've read about him, and had a pretty full life.

he wasn't a very good guitarist...but fitted in well with the band.

he's was no Jorma K, or Mick T for instance...

rip



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-25 15:22 by Eleanor Rigby.

I always loved the guitar leads on Summertime, great mix between classical and rock - was that him?

ROCKMAN