Hi Mathijs,

I recently got the "Fender Twin Reverb" amp. It's a clean sound amp. No gain
there. Which pedal would you recommend to add a little overdrive or gain in order to get Keith sound ?

Thanks
Mike

I'm no Mathijs but I would say that the secret is to play it really loud and you'll get the overdrive.

Is an guitaramplifier without 'Gain' controlfunction really made for playing rock'n'roll? Why did you bought it if you want Keefs sound?

2 1 2 0

If it's a "Blackface" or later twin, your ears will bleed before the sound breaks up.
The modern Fender twin is the King of "clean" sounds at high volume levels. Try a few popular pedals and see what happens.
If a rock sound with a little crunch and breakup is your staple thing...you will probabaly be better off with a different and lower powered amp.
The Fender Deluxe Reverb still has the blackface styling and great clean sound at lower levels...but it will start to break up for that "clean with attitude" kind of bite that Keith's sound is based on.
The tweed Fender Twins that Keith uses are an altogther different animal to the later Twins. Still loud...but they will break up as the volume is wound up.
They also have a very different tonality to the later model amps.
Depending on how loud you are able to use it, the tweed Twin or Bassman reissues will get you much nearer to where you want to be...but they'll still be pretty loud before the crunch and compression kicks in.
The type of sound that Keith uses [which is less distorted than a lot of people think] is best produced at levels where the power tubes are just starting to break up a little. It's more difficult to nail that sound with pre-amp gain in modern amplifiers.
Fender's modern Hot Rod or Blues Deluxe and DeVille amps, with the right choice of speakers and tubes, will have a good stab at it for not a lot of money. They'll give you the master volume option and essentially the right character of sound when you get the EQ right.
I suppose to sum it up, you can go into great depth about guitar tone and how it can be tweaked...but if you want that Keith type of sound from just the right amp with no pedals and at at sensible levels... a modern Fender twin is perhaps not the amp to use :^(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-26 10:21 by Spud.

Like Spud says Keith's sound is actually not very distorted. His playing is just rock'n roll crytsallized so people assume they ehar every effect. But if you want some crunch IMO get a Tube Screamer, something that overdrives the tubes. The Fuzz/Distortion pedals can be too much; also you lose presence with them. get a Tube Screamer, crank the Low EQ on the pedal, the hi end on guitar and you will bite.
But you are correct: Mathijs is the ultimate authority on this subject.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-26 10:50 by ChelseaDrugstore.

Hello
I've got myself a twin reverb blackface re-issue, with jensen speakers and it sounds very close as keith's. I don't use any effect just put the volume at 5, treble 7, middle and bass 3. Plug your tele with humbucker and let the tubes break up ... if neighbours don't complain!
ciao
'pizza

<Keith's sound is actually not very distorted.>

haven't been since 1976...

for those overdriven sounds Keith used to use, one might consider getting a Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor, especially if you already own a Twin.
It's costly, but one of the best drives you can get.

You may also try the Fulltone OCD which is imo one of the very few pedals that doesn't alter the amps basic sound completely and of course you want the sound to stay fenderish, don't you?

Edit:
Of course the other guys are right, you need a early Twin or a Bassman at very high volume to get that sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-26 12:04 by firebird.

Slighly OT, but I just put my little hands on a sweet Victoria 50212 Low-Power Twin

AND I found the tubes for the Ampeg

NEIGHBOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C


p.s. Ciao Pizza

A Fuzz Face would get the drive for you.

Liddas wrote

"Slighly OT, but I just put my little hands on a sweet Victoria 50212 Low-Power Twin "

Who's a lucky boy then. Beautiful amplifier...absolutely beautiful.

Have you tried the "Double Deluxe" ?
Another real Killer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-26 15:57 by Spud.

Spud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hhave you tried the "Double Deluxe" ?
> Another real Killer.

No, I have not: I've never seen a Victoria here in Italy. I've read a world of good things on it, so I decided to give it a try.

C

Congrats, Nice amp.

..and to malcolm

Your neighbours might not complain about a Blackface Twin on five with humbuckers. Mine certainly would ;^)

Spud summed it up very well. Keith's sound of today is not very distorted, so cranking a Fender a bit will always get you there. The biggest variable is volume, and a Twin is usually very loud. A Deluxe works really well for Stonesy stuff at lower volumes, and even smaller amps, like a Champ or the modern Pro Junior is great for home practice. Keith has actually stated that he likes Champs a lot in the studio, at least in earlier times. Getting that power section overdrive requires a small amp for the volume to stay sane.

Anyway, I suppose you already got your Twin Reverb and don't plan to sell it any time soon just because some people tell you it ain't gonna get you to "Keef" without blowing the windows out. And a TR is a great amp and a very good starting point for adding pedals if you like that. Keith's sound has never been very advanced in any way -- just a good half-distorted rhythm/lead sound -- and it can be achieved with most overdrive stomp boxes. I can recommend the Boss Blues Driver, the Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive (which has a "clean" knob to mix in a clean signal to preserve clarity, in a typical Keith-fashion) or an MXR Distortion+ (although that one is more commonly associated with Randy Rhoads).

If you're aiming more for his '69-73 kind of sound, you'd want more distortion but still with some clarity. During this time the Stones played large Ampeg amps and got that fat, raunchy and midrange-heavy distortion from simply cranking them 'til their pants fluttered. I have an Ampeg VT40 (60 watts) that sounds very Stonesy and not too far from a Twin Reverb (or rather a Super Reverb), but it's way too loud for most things I do. Cranking your Twin, and turning up the midrange, would probably land you in '72, but save your ears...

Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-26 16:21 by LieB.

I have an original Fender Super Reverb Amp from the 60's.
I use it only in large venues, 1000+ capacity, and I don't need no pedal to get that extra punch, juts raise the volume and the motherf**ker will start roaring like a 747 taking off.
In smaller clubs I use a Gallien Krueger combo amp, very small one, with an Ibanez Tube Screamer pedal and it does the trick, still not the same effect as the Fender.

I got the Stones-sound from my Mesa/Boogie Mk IV - great amp!

Big T

Thanks all for your answers !!!

Hi

I've got a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12 combo turned up to between 3&4 on the volume and I have a Fender Super 60 1x12 combo valve amp. I've worked out that if the Super 60's gain channel is set about 4 or 5 and the Hot rod deville is set on clean then I can approximate the Keef sound with my Tele.

You guys got to remember that it's not about the amps it's also about the strings on the guitar, the pickups, the action and more importantly how he stikes the strings.

Pierre DeBeauport probably has a load of neat effects units tagged on to those amps that Keef has onstage. Have you ever noticed that neither Ron nor Keef have effects pedals on stage? The distortion generated when Keith or Ron take a solo isn't generated by the volume control on the guitar. Have you ever seen them use the volume control (i.e to drive the amp). I haven't. My guess is that different amp sounds will be programmed for different guitars.

NickB

I'll jump here too.

I've got a Cornell Romany amp, a little 10W 1x10 tube combo. In essence it's a copy of a vintage Tweed Champ. It's absolutely fantastic for home practice, and allows you to get that sweet tube distortion by turning up the volume without the neighbours feeling the earth is shaking or calling the police.

Dennis Cornell is a great guy to deal with, and he custom-makes the amps as people order them to their preferences. Some kind of artisan...

Check his website: [www.dc-developments.com]

[There'll be no wedding today...]

You're playing style is of course the most important aspect, regarding how you want to sound. I have a Hi-Watt Biacrown Custom 50 Watt ("Bulldog), and I can get the Keith 70s-sound by twisting two control knobs gently... When I use my Tele for Open-G tuning, I just lower my bright volume (7 o'clock), and cranking the master volume (2 o'clock). That works for me, but then again Hi-Watts (especially the combos) are like "wild animals" when it comes to distortion.