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MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: hbwriter ()
Date: November 2, 2009 21:19

All the wonderful recent posts about MJ at the hall of fame event makes me wonder - has here ever been an entertainer who has had such an incredible relationship with one venue as Mick does with MSG? Though he seems unsentimental, how can he help but reflect back, at least a little to Ya YAs, the '72 birthday, a six-night run in '75, through the 80s, 90s and up until today? He has owned that place so many times it must be weird to be there as an add-on, still, what an add-on he is. I think the relationship is special because at heart, and in body, Mick became a New Yorker a long time ago. He always seemed to get the magic of the city, how to adapt so that he could live a fairly hassle-free existence there, and what the pulse of the place is. I think when he plays at MSG, it's one New Yorker playing for 20,000 other New Yorkers, and that's why the crowd reactions are always a little more special there--thoughts? Impressions on Stones shows you've seen there? (My first - 6/22/75)

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: Pecman ()
Date: November 2, 2009 22:27

What are the Non-Rolling Stones shows that he performed at the Madison Square Garden?

The 9-11 Benefit for New York City Show
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame SHow

What Else?

PEC<AM

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: oldkr ()
Date: November 2, 2009 22:50

and doesnt billy joel hold the record for selling out MSG the most times?

OLDKR

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: Goldsmith ()
Date: November 2, 2009 23:22

If it's not Billy Joel then it's Elton John.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: November 2, 2009 23:44

Last time I was in NYC, I took a tour of the Garden.
It was excellent. I love stadiums and arenas, so I thought it was great.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: November 2, 2009 23:47

Quote
oldkr
and doesnt billy joel hold the record for selling out MSG the most times?

Quote
Goldsmith
If it's not Billy Joel then it's Elton John.

My guess is the Knicks.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: mickschix ()
Date: November 3, 2009 00:42

Well I love MSG and even though I've seen every Stones tour since 1972, I dreamed of seeing the Stones at the Garden...just never did until 1998!! Since 1998, I have seen the Stones there another 3 times plus the benefit for NYC in October of 2001...and actually that was only Mick & Keith. MSG has an energy that matches that of the entire city and I'm sure Mick feels it and always raises the performance level when playing there!! HBWRITER, one of my biggest regrets is not seeing the Stones there in 1975...what was I thinking? Guess I was too young.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: rocknola ()
Date: November 3, 2009 00:50

The record was previously held by the grateful dead.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: November 3, 2009 02:39

Quote
Goldsmith
If it's not Billy Joel then it's Elton John.

Last time I checked it was Elton, with 60 shows. The Dead are next with 52.

Billy Joel holds the record for sell-outs in one run - 12, beating Springsteen's previous record of 10 in 2000.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-03 02:42 by Gazza.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: hbwriter ()
Date: November 3, 2009 03:56

I know there are artists with more appearances - but I think with Jagger/the Stones, it's more qualitative than quantitative - maybe it's because I don't think Elton, the Dead, Billy Joel or Springsteen can shine the Stones' shoes, but as far as "definitive" moments at the Garden, I think the Stones win hands down - if all you took were the Ya Yas shows, and 7/26/72 you'd already be ahead of the game - this is all opinion of course, but I do think the fact that Mick's a bonafide NYer sets him apart from those other acts

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 3, 2009 04:09

Quote
hbwriter
has here ever been an entertainer who has had such an incredible relationship with one venue as Mick does with MSG?


Springsteen, and the Meadowlands Arena (or whatever they call it now), adjacent to Giants Stadium, in East Rutherford, New Jersey.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: November 3, 2009 04:13

The Dead with the Winterland would be another.

MSG isnt actually the venue that the Stones have appeared in most.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 3, 2009 04:22

Quote
Gazza

MSG isnt actually the venue that the Stones have appeared in most.


The Marquee?

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: hbwriter ()
Date: November 3, 2009 04:25

The Dead with the Winterland would be another.

----

Gaz, exactly - it's one part hometown thing-another part intangible chemistry

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: angee ()
Date: November 3, 2009 06:14

I am determined to see the Stones for the very first time in MSG during the next tour. After I went for the Clapton/Winwood show, I saw how special a venue it was.

I think we all, as many of us here as possible, should converge on the Garden, together.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: HelterSkelter ()
Date: November 3, 2009 08:11

THE BEATLES and the HOLLYWOOD BOWL was a magical love affair....

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Date: November 3, 2009 10:42

I'm gonna say Zeppelin & the LA Forum (or was that the Hyatt House?)... No, Springsteen and the Stone Pony.
spinning smiley sticking its tongue outjust kidding!
I would love to see the Stones at MSG. Perhaps one day...

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: November 3, 2009 11:04

I made it to see them at the MSG for the first and only time in 2003 (the show that ended up on the DVD). The place IS magic, and true, you can see that Mick (and the band) is at home. When in there, you do feel as if you were in a historical stadium for a historical match.

The only let down was the crowd.

Probably the most passive audience I have seen in my life.

C

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: DD ()
Date: November 3, 2009 12:11

I take your point hb, but I must take issue with this:

"the fact that Mick's a bonafide NYer sets him apart from those other acts".

He may have lived there frequently and performed at venues all over the city, but to say he's a New Yorker is simply wrong. However international he might be, the man was born and brought up in Kent and London and he still lives in London. No New Yorker is he.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: November 3, 2009 15:38

Quote hbwriter: "at heart, and in body, Mick became a New Yorker a long time ago"

I beg to differ!

I find it odd when people call Jagger a 'New Yorker'.

His accent and birthplace would indicate otherwise.

Whenever he and the Stones play London, (Wembley/Twickenham/O2 Arena/a theatre of their choice) there's more than a very strong feeling that they are returning HOME. Traditionally they end tours there.

Obviously he likes NY and feels at home there. An 'Englishman in New York' perhaps. But he hasn't wanted to 'do a Lennon' and change national allegiance.

MJ is a Knight of the Queen's Realm. He values his Britishness.

Bet he loves Amsterdam too. Does that make him a bit Dutch?

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: hbwriter ()
Date: November 3, 2009 16:28

DD & Four Stone - I hear ya both - I wasn't being literal; I may not have expressed it properly--for me, even though he has lived here a lot since the early 70s, it's a state of mind/attitude--at the 9/11 shows when he said o the crowd, "You don't f--- with NY," he sounded as local as any firefighter in the place. Someone I know who had a long, fairly well known relationship with him has told me he loved roaming the streets at night, unrecognized, exploring, soaking up the energy of the city--reveling in the madness -- but like I said, I get your points and I respect them.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 3, 2009 16:33

Quote
HelterSkelter
THE BEATLES and the HOLLYWOOD BOWL was a magical love affair....


Some love affair. They played there TWICE.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 3, 2009 16:35

Quote
hbwriter
The Dead with the Winterland would be another.

----

Gaz, exactly - it's one part hometown thing-another part intangible chemistry

Aren't the Dead more closely associated with the Fillmore? Here's another one: The Allman Brothers and the Beacon Theatre.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: rlngstns ()
Date: November 3, 2009 17:08

Quote
tomk
Last time I was in NYC, I took a tour of the Garden.
It was excellent. I love stadiums and arenas, so I thought it was great.

AKA...worlds most famous arena....

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: hbwriter ()
Date: November 3, 2009 17:10

you see it in '69 - the teenyboppers are gone - it's a grown up NYC crowd, undulating and melting under the spell - the bond is forging




Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: November 3, 2009 18:21

Quote
tatters
Quote
Gazza

MSG isnt actually the venue that the Stones have appeared in most.


The Marquee?


The Stones didnt play the Marquee that often, actually. A couple of isolated gigs in '62 and then a brief residency in early '63 which lasted for 5 shows before Harold Pendleton sacked them because he thought they were crap.

I did a count a while back and I think its actually a London club called Studio 51, believe it or not - strange that it seems so unheralded and unrecognised in the band's history. They played 39 shows there in 1963 (all but two of them between March and September, when the residency ended as the Stones went on tour for the first time). I didnt know where this club was, but a quick google search found it - [www.shadyoldlady.com]. Its in Great Newport Street, which is on the outskirts of Chinatown, if I'm not mistaken.

The residency at the Crawdaddy club had 17 shows at the Station Hotel in Richmond from February 1963 before the demand for the band meant that the club had to move to Richmond Athletic Club in June 1963 where they played a final 9 shows before their first national tour.

Other regular venues around that time - The Ealing Club 23 times (1962-63, and the first venue where the Stones had a residency), Eel Pie Island, Twickenham 23 times (1963), Ricky Tick Club, Windsor (14 times in 1963 - the last 6 were at the Thames Hotel as, again, the demand was getting too big), Ed Lion Pub, Sutton (12 times in 1962-63).

For shows that werent clubs or residencies, Madison Square Garden is now the venue the Stones have played the most, with 26 performances between 1969 and 2006. One more than the Tokyo Dome, which has 25 between 1990 and 2006 (although it holds three times as many people as MSG). The Tokyo Dome also has the longest consecutive run of Stones shows - 10 in February 1990.

Other venues with more than 10 performances - Oakland Coliseum (13 from 1969-2006), Estadio River Plate, Buenos Aires (12 from from 1995 to 2006), Wembley Stadium (12 from 1982 to 1999), Wembley Arena/Empire Pool (11 from 1964 to 2003 - 4 of them were NME Pollwinners Shows) and the Inglewood Forum, LA (11 from 1969 to 2006). The venue where the Stones have played to the most people in total though would be Wembley Stadium - where they've been seen by around 850,000 people.

Anyway to get back to the topic - I dont think you need to play a venue a lot of times to be eternally linked to it. Altamont and Hyde Park for example? When you think of the Beatles, you automatically associate them with two venues more than any other - one hometown (the Cavern) and one overseas (Shea Stadium). Yet they played Shea a total of four times over two tours (65 and 66) and didnt even sell it out on their '66 visit. Shea might be more associated with baseball to Americans but as that sport isnt widely followed outside the US, if you asked most people overseas what they associate the venue with its the fact that The Beatles played there.

I agree with FSW re : the Mick as a New Yorker thing. Sure, he feels at home there, but he hasnt really lived there hardly at all for over two decades, so I think he's comfortable enough wherever he chooses to lay his hat. You could say the same about him regarding Paris. He said he liked to live near and hang around neighbourhoods which maybe would have had a lot of immigrants who didnt know who he was, so he could walk around incognito. To be honest, its hard to pin a man down to anywhere considering he's lived for much of this decade in a London hotel when not on the road or in his home in France.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: erikjjf ()
Date: November 3, 2009 22:13

Quote
Gazza
Oakland Coliseum (13 from 1969-2006)

I believe the 1969 shows were at the Coliseum arena, and the first show at the Coliseum Stadium was the one in 1978.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: November 4, 2009 01:13

That would make sense because of the size of the place, Erik. Its always listed as 'Oakland Coliseum' in any tour listings but - apart from festivals - they werent playing stadium sized venues in 1969.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 4, 2009 04:21

Quote
Gazza
Anyway to get back to the topic - I dont think you need to play a venue a lot of times to be eternally linked to it. Altamont and Hyde Park for example? When you think of the Beatles, you automatically associate them with two venues more than any other - one hometown (the Cavern) and one overseas (Shea Stadium). Yet they played Shea a total of four times over two tours (65 and 66) and didnt even sell it out on their '66 visit. Shea might be more associated with baseball to Americans but as that sport isnt widely followed outside the US, if you asked most people overseas what they associate the venue with its the fact that The Beatles played there.

Sure, but the original poster was talking about an "incredible relationship" between a performer and a venue, which sort of implies many, many shows over a long period of time. The Beatles relationship with Shea Stadium lasted one year and they spent a grand total of 55 MINUTES there! Here in Detroit, the longest-lasting, most historic relationships that come to mind are Bob Seger and Cobo Hall, and KISS and Cobo Hall. As for the Stones and MSG, Yeah, Ya-Ya's was recorded there, and it's one of the few truly essential live rock albums ever recorded, but Elton John and Billy Joel just about OWN that place. You can't see Elton there and not think about that night in 1974 John Lennon walked onstage to an ovation louder than anything Mick, or anyone else, has ever heard in that building.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-04 04:26 by tatters.

Re: MJ & MSG - A love affair
Posted by: hbwriter ()
Date: November 4, 2009 07:03

tatters- good take--but it's not just many shows - it's quality of shows--can anyone distinguish one billy joel msg show over another? smiling smiley

the stones were the first band to conquer the garden and from there it only got better

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