I think Brian was so far gone if he hadn't died in the swimming pool he would have died within 18 months one way or another. If somehow, miraculously, he "got his shit together," I think he could have done soundtracks and world music recordings. Maybe he would have moved to California and hung out with the filmmakers of the 1070s postmodern American cinema, had kids, grown paunchy, bald, and boring. But I don't think so. He was a high-strung temperamental dude, and I doubt even if he got off drugs he would have "calmed down and had a normal life."

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swiss

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SwayStones
And as a non native English woman ,I always thought that you must write "If Brian was still alive."

SwayStones - more English lessons The use of "were" here is what's known as the subjunctive tense. I don't vemember what that would be in French but I know you use it too. In fact, I bet existentialist writings would use the tense a lot.

You're totally right that usually in English it's: "I was, you were, he was, she was, we were, they were" But the subjunctive "were" is used across the board for everyone, when speculating, wishing, or hoping, or thinking about something (in an abstract sort of future or present state, that will not, or may not, ever be).

Usually you get a clue that the subjunctive will be used when a sentence is preceded by the word "if" or "whether."

Many English as a 1st language people don't even use this tense; they use the simple tense of "was," tho "were" is right.

example: If all of us "were" former English majors back in college, we'd know these rules. If Brian Jones "were" still among us he would be sneering at my post right now.

The subjunctive is a mood, not a tense. Not that you're wrong, but it's much more prevalent in French, her mother tongue, than in English so she hardly needs a lesson.

Brian Jones would look just like his father looked. Short, bald, scrawny.

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Rocky Dijon
Elmo Lewis, you have my respect for an unexpected laugh.

Thanks, Rocky!

And thanks to sweetcharmedlife for the CDs. Gonna spend my Saturday checking 'em out ... and some college football. Go Dawgs!

"No Anchovies, Please"

Have people here read anything about Brian? Most sources say that he had quit the drugs by 69 because he didn't want to go to jail. He knew that he couldn't handle jail and was really afraid of it. He even searched people who visited him at Cotchford so they didn't brought drugs to his home. He didn't stop drinking though.

By 1969 Brian was happy that he finally had found a real home of his own. He was the last of the Stones to actually buy a house. He was happy that he had Anna, excited about the plans for a new band and people who knew him (including Charlie Watts) says that he got more happy and nicer towards the end.

Stop this BS about him just being this drug adddict monster when sources say otherwise. Based on the books and articles I've read about Brian my guess is that he would have managed to get a new band together and he would have written more music (because he could do it no matter what M&K says - he wrote a whole soundtrack, he wrote songs during his time with the RS and he recorded music at Cotchford).

Amen. RIP.

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Erik_Snow

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Mathijs
[...]EC was a fantastic musician and a reluctant rock star[....]

not was but is

Well, in my opinion not. Clapton of late has become a very predictable guitarist. He lost most of his improvisation skills and part of his smooth technique. I don't blame him in any way, but it -just as with the Stones- a matter of age I guess.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Erik_Snow

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Mathijs
[...]EC was a fantastic musician and a reluctant rock star[....]

not was but is

Well, in my opinion not. Clapton of late has become a very predictable guitarist. He lost most of his improvisation skills and part of his smooth technique. I don't blame him in any way, but it -just as with the Stones- a matter of age I guess.

Mathijs

gee I just Clapton in Toronto last year and he is playing better than ever. When's the last time you saw him?

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Zack

The subjunctive is a mood, not a tense. Not that you're wrong, but it's much more prevalent in French, her mother tongue, than in English so she hardly needs a lesson.

Swaystones had just said: "IORR is great .Not only I am learning every day about the Stones ,but I learn English too.smiling bouncing smiley"

I wasn't being an asshaul or obnoxious know-it-all, Zack, by saying "lesson" I was being playful. It's sometimes hard to tell.

I had no idea English wasn't a first language for Swaystones until she said so -- her English is perfect. I said what I said in the spirit of sharing something totally arcane and not important (but also true - whether it's now technically called a "mood" or a "tense" ) with [clearly from her posts] a really intelligent curious person who probably would find it at least vaguely interesting. It's a shade of a nuance of the language. And I said I know it's commonly used in French.

Sorry to Swaystones if I was seen as being offensive. It wasn't my intent. I was just being stupid/silly but also know how endlessly mysterious and arbitrary the outer reaches of another language are.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-26 21:06 by swiss.

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More Hot Rocks

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Mathijs

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Erik_Snow

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Mathijs
[...]EC was a fantastic musician and a reluctant rock star[....]

not was but is

Well, in my opinion not. Clapton of late has become a very predictable guitarist. He lost most of his improvisation skills and part of his smooth technique. I don't blame him in any way, but it -just as with the Stones- a matter of age I guess.

Mathijs

gee I just Clapton in Toronto last year and he is playing better than ever. When's the last time you saw him?

Last year with Derek Trucks. Good show for sure, Clapton can still be good, but it's not the same Clapton as before 2000 or so. He's become slower and more relying on this dark and sustaining lead tone. He's become less adventurous, more standard blues playing.

Mathijs

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skipstone
He'd be fat and even more bloated if he would have survived freebasing, crack and whatever else. Ice. You know he would have done it all if possible.

Prove where Mick Taylor is ready and wants to come back to the Stones? That's hilarious. You must be smokin' some good dope. It means nothing! Nothing at all! Lump Mick Taylor in with Brian Jones - OUT FOREVER. NEVER AGAIN.

OUCH !!! bit harsh there skipper (but I have a feeling you are an insider cause you seem to know how they think a bit to clearly)

Now it can be told that, Like Jim Morrison, Brian Jones just went underground (didn't die) and came back as Jackie The Joke Man - Martlin on Howard Stern - at least that's what my older brother told me before he left to fight in the war....

I need to say this: if BJ were still alive at the age of 67 going on 68, would any of you think he may resemble Seth Green's character in Austin Powers in Goldmember (you know, Scott Evil) in the ending scene, where all of his hair is gone (this scene looks like it came straight out of Star Trek: The Next Generation)?

~Ben

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Zack

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swiss

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SwayStones
And as a non native English woman ,I always thought that you must write "If Brian was still alive."

SwayStones - more English lessons The use of "were" here is what's known as the subjunctive tense. I don't vemember what that would be in French but I know you use it too. In fact, I bet existentialist writings would use the tense a lot.

You're totally right that usually in English it's: "I was, you were, he was, she was, we were, they were" But the subjunctive "were" is used across the board for everyone, when speculating, wishing, or hoping, or thinking about something (in an abstract sort of future or present state, that will not, or may not, ever be).

Usually you get a clue that the subjunctive will be used when a sentence is preceded by the word "if" or "whether."

Many English as a 1st language people don't even use this tense; they use the simple tense of "was," tho "were" is right.

example: If all of us "were" former English majors back in college, we'd know these rules. If Brian Jones "were" still among us he would be sneering at my post right now.

The subjunctive is a mood, not a tense. Not that you're wrong, but it's much more prevalent in French, her mother tongue, than in English so she hardly needs a lesson.

Brian Jones would look just like his father looked. Short, bald, scrawny.

Thanks to both of you for the explanations .
swiss No offense at all .I guess MY post sounded offensive to BJ69..and I am sorry for that.But I have some extenuating circumstances.Some people on this board knows which ones.
But swiss,take a look at my signature :if I wrote under Mick's plane that I am a frenchie ,that's because I know how a person who don't express herself accurately
and correctly in some lanage -no matter what the langage is - is most of the time not taken seriously.

And zack is right .French is a very "rich" langage - many words to express the same thing .
So it will be I guess "Si Brian Jones était encore en vie "...

My apologizes to the other posters from the board for this OT part....

And now,as an answer to BJ69 ,there are shareware or face transformer web sites .
But counting that Brian Jones was drinking a lot of booze ,I am not sure whether he COULD be still alive in 2009...



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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SwayStones
swiss No offense at all .I guess MY post sounded offensive to BJ69..and I am sorry for that.But I have some extenuating circumstances.Some people on this board knows which ones.
But swiss,take a look at my signature :if I wrote under Mick's plane that I am a frenchie ,that's because I know how a person who don't express herself accurately
and correctly in some lanage -no matter what the langage is - is most of the time not taken seriously.

SwayStones, thanks for your note -- I have indeed seen the "Frenchie" signature since I started posting here a few weeks ago. Often Americans like to say "I'm Irish" or "I'm Italian" or even "I'm a Frenchie" Meaning their families came from these places, and they like to identify with that culture. In reading your very enjoyable posts, I never noticed your use of English was anything but natural. So it didn't occur to me English was a 2nd language. In my embarrassingly US-centric way, I thought perhaps you were from a part of the States with strong French identity. (I live in one such state that has a couple of strong "French" communities, even tho their ancestors immigrated here from France or from France-then-Canada-then-here 100 years ago...many speak French, eat "French" foods, sing old French songs, tell French tales to their kids growing up, etc--tho this French/American culture is dying out with the current generation).
- swiss

He would have been wearing a strawhat and big white sun-glasses...strumming blues-scales on his slide-guitar for his grand-children..by that famous pool..

2 1 2 0

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tonterapi


Stop this BS about him just being this drug adddict monster when sources say otherwise. Based on the books and articles I've read about Brian my guess is that he would have managed to get a new band together and he would have written more music (because he could do it no matter what M&K says - he wrote a whole soundtrack, he wrote songs during his time with the RS and he recorded music at Cotchford).

You're right ,tonterapi ,because we've been talking a lot on Brian's physical appearance and not on Brian 's musical genius.That's why it's even worse because he was so talentued and just s**ew up his life .



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

So he's not around anymore!

Next.....

'Doo doo doo Heartbreaker'

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SwayStones
You're right ,tonterapi ,because we've been talking a lot on Brian's physical appearance and not on Brian 's musical genius.That's why it's even worse because he was so talentued and just s**ew up his life .

It was a waste of a talent. Brian wasn't a virtuous but he could handle different instruments pretty well and had a good ear on how to use them. The score for A Degree of Murder shows that he also had the ability not only to compose but to compose good music.

What bugs me when talking about Brian is that people tend to think that he acted like an ass just because he was an ass. Brian was a complicated guy and there were lots of stuff going on psychologially inside of him. The drugs made it all worse and everybody knew it was bad. But instead of helping him (like they would have done today) they just let him dig deeper and deeper into hell.
People tend to listen a little bit too much on M&K regarding Brian. Brian did this, Brian did that while they acted like first class asses towards him themselves.
My point is that there were other people around that knew another Brian Jones - Marianne Faithful, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Bill Wyman and Pete Townsend to name a few. Especially Marianne and Bill has done a lot to make Brian more human.
Sadly Brian isn't here to tell us his version of the story. All we can do if we want to know a little bit of who he was is to listen to the people who knew him. There are a lot of sources out there and a few good books written about him as well.

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Mathijs

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More Hot Rocks

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Mathijs

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Erik_Snow

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Mathijs
[...]EC was a fantastic musician and a reluctant rock star[....]

not was but is

Well, in my opinion not. Clapton of late has become a very predictable guitarist. He lost most of his improvisation skills and part of his smooth technique. I don't blame him in any way, but it -just as with the Stones- a matter of age I guess.

Mathijs

gee I just Clapton in Toronto last year and he is playing better than ever. When's the last time you saw him?

Last year with Derek Trucks. Good show for sure, Clapton can still be good, but it's not the same Clapton as before 2000 or so. He's become slower and more relying on this dark and sustaining lead tone. He's become less adventurous, more standard blues playing.

Mathijs

Agree, saw him (for the first time) about two years ago - one of the most boring concerts I ever saw. Was proof that Clapton has a limited catalogue in comparison to ... He left the most to Trucks whose contributions didn't impress me either (or could save the songs). The radio editor sitting next to me agreed, she had seen him a dozen of times or so.

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JJHMick

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Mathijs

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More Hot Rocks

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Mathijs

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Erik_Snow

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Mathijs
[...]EC was a fantastic musician and a reluctant rock star[....]

not was but is

Well, in my opinion not. Clapton of late has become a very predictable guitarist. He lost most of his improvisation skills and part of his smooth technique. I don't blame him in any way, but it -just as with the Stones- a matter of age I guess.

Mathijs

gee I just Clapton in Toronto last year and he is playing better than ever. When's the last time you saw him?

Last year with Derek Trucks. Good show for sure, Clapton can still be good, but it's not the same Clapton as before 2000 or so. He's become slower and more relying on this dark and sustaining lead tone. He's become less adventurous, more standard blues playing.

Mathijs

Agree, saw him (for the first time) about two years ago - one of the most boring concerts I ever saw. Was proof that Clapton has a limited catalogue in comparison to ... He left the most to Trucks whose contributions didn't impress me either (or could save the songs). The radio editor sitting next to me agreed, she had seen him a dozen of times or so.

Clapton has off and on nights....and also off and on months; actually - unlike artists that put on the almost very same performance each time....on autopilot
But when seeing Mathijs reply....yes well I agree to some extent; the last few years he haven't played like he did in the 90s. But he's still very very good - when he's "on"

I saw Clapton recently and was bored senseless. He's way too cool to ever smile or thank the audience. It felt like he was just phoning it in.

And a counter-question: what if Keith Richards (or RICHARD actually) had died in summer 1969, what would we think of HIM now?

I'm afraid he would not be much remembered nowadays. Namely the legendary rock icon with a signature guitar sound we know now actually was born in the 70's... He surely was no a rock star like Jagger or Brian Jones, or a song writer like McCartney or Lennon, or a "guitar hero" like Hendrix or Clapton. And he was no "KEEF Richards" because the concept didn't exist yet... Perhaps we would now say something to the effect "oh that low profile beatle-look-alike reluctant guitarist who did few nice but very simple riffs, and the melodies to Stones hits in the 60's. He was then replaced by Jeff Beck, and boy, did the Stones then turned out be professional and superb! Plus the Keith guy was a bad team-player, you know, the guy stole Brian's girlfriend. Well, then he hooked with heroin, messed up his life, and that was it. A violent cat they say he was. Typical rough teddy boy. A sad case. The Stones don't speak very much highly of him thesedays."

The point: to judge and estimate Brian's actions in future is not just very difficult but also a bit unfair based on what he know of him while he was alive.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-29 00:16 by Doxa.

Here's a thought.
If Brian were still alive, he'd have cleaned himself up because
he's still alive by this point.

If he had done that, and stories seem to suggest he was on his way,
then when Mick Taylor didn't work out,
they probably would have asked him back.

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

It's strictly in the realm of fantasy, because if Brian were alive today, he wouldn't bear any resemblance to the Brian of the past. Same with other rock stars who had drug-related deaths; Jimi, Janis, Jim Morrison.

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Doxa
And a counter-question: what if Keith Richards (or RICHARD actually) had died in summer 1969, what would we think of HIM now?

I'm afraid he would not be much remembered nowadays. Namely the legendary rock icon with a signature guitar sound we know now actually was born in the 70's... He surely was no a rock star like Jagger or Brian Jones, or a song writer like McCartney or Lennon, or a "guitar hero" like Hendrix or Clapton. And he was no "KEEF Richards" because the concept didn't exist yet... Perhaps we would now say something to the effect "oh that low profile beatle-look-alike reluctant guitarist who did few nice but very simple riffs, and the melodies to Stones hits in the 60's. He was then replaced by Jeff Beck, and boy, did the Stones then turned out be professional and superb! Plus the Keith guy was a bad team-player, you know, the guy stole Brian's girlfriend. Well, then he hooked with heroin, messed up his life, and that was it. A violent cat they say he was. Typical rough teddy boy. A sad case. The Stones don't speak very much highly of him thesedays."

The point: to judge and estimate Brian's actions in future is not just very difficult but also a bit unfair based on what he know of him while he was alive.

- Doxa

Superbly written Doxa. It's a very interesting thought.

...i'd be a happier fellow.