...perfect for keeping the band's chops sharp throughout the tour.

Mick needs to play harmonica during MR, which keeps him from running around. MR has a relentless rhythm section which means Keith can't do his wild arm flailing which is just getting irritating. Ronnie is front-and-center during CYHMK, which means he can't @#$%& off. Simply put, they can't phone it in.

Watching Keith, Ronnie and Darryl play MR during the HBO show from 2003 still gives me chills...they're all hunkered down in front of the drum riser in a circle, just jamming. Now THAT was a real band. No showboating, just playing.

I'm convinced if the band added another 3 or 4 similar songs (Moonlight Mile, Sister Morphine, maybe Sway or Winter) to the setlist, along with another 1 or 2 new songs of ABB, that the shows overall would be much more exciting. The band would need to stay focused and in the zone all night. Breaking up that huge block of warhorses at the end would also go a long way.

And even if the majority of the crowd might not know songs Moonlight Mile or Sway...who could resist cheering like crazy after the band nails the song??

Thoughts?

Ronnie is not capable to play the guitar solo of SWAY.
I really think that it would a distaster.
I do not want hear that.

I remember BV reporting that they had Sway nailed and seemed ready to use it.

they would have to do another arrangement and take away the lead guitar solo
on Winter. That would be terrible and not true to the studio take. Really
same for Sway even though woody could play slide it would be average at best.

when woody's copies taylor's lines it sounds tin

on love in vain
on all down the line
on shine a light

they can play that songs, with a lead guitar solo, the only thing whe have to do, is listening, and don`t compare it with taylor, it`s just not fair.

Okay...well, I'm just using examples. I think selecting a few more challenging numbers is healthy for the band.

Even though Midnight Rambler isn't exactly a rarity, it still requires a lot of concentration for the whole band, and I think the band is better off for it.

but your premise is in fact the problem - they don't want to have to focus - hence the exclusion of those songs. and, I think I believe the report that Mick just laughed it off when asked about how Sway was going - don't hold your breath on that one...it ain't-a-gonna 'appen.....

sway will happen. one way or another in toronto

yeah and Mick Taylor will walk on stage and play that brilliant controlled
single note and slide solo and leave everyone breathless.

why not compare MT and RW??????? Both have played lead guitar in the Rolling Stones. Ok, maybe its not fair to compare the 58 year old Ron to the Mick Taylor of 1973. But if you listen to MT these days, and compare, Ron still sucks. Taylor had even tonight no problem with CYHMK. He regularly plays that solo.

OpenG - I don't think so and I don't think the Stones should touch that song!
and stay away from Winter & TWFNO also... unless they bring out MT!!

MLC

People, don't miss the point by bickering over whether or not the Stones should play songs with prominent Mick T solos.

My point is that breaking out more challenging compositions (not necessarily guitar-wise) keeps the band focused. I think Licks proved that, although they went on autopilot in Europe, which was disheartening.

It seems they're starting on autopilot this time around, which is even more disheartening.

Yeah, they still sound good, and Ron is playing decently, but they don't sound vital or alive. I'm still sad by how anti-climactic the show I saw was.

nmaillot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ronnie is not capable to play the guitar solo of
> SWAY.
> I really think that it would a distaster.
> I do not want hear that.

Let's see... he's "capable" of playing the guitar lines of CYHMK but not Sway ??

> Let's see... he's "capable" of playing the guitar
> lines of CYHMK but not Sway ??

I agree...I think CYHMK is THE Mick Taylor solo when it comes to the Stones, and Ronnie did a quite admirable job.

Now sure, Ron probably could (and just might) butcher Sway if he tried it, but at least try it...or if not that, then try some of their 60's tunes. Just toss out some more curveballs so the band has to stay focused.

Creedence & Keefriff99, Ron's leads on CYHMK are adquate at best.

Reminds me of when Peter frampton quit Humble Pie and he was replaced by
Clem Clemson. yeah he could "mimic" some of Peter's leads but the "magic"
was gone and Humble Pie faded away, not saying the Stones faded away
(they did in my eyes as I saw them with Taylor in 69,72 & 73)

it like driving a Ferreri then been givin the keys to a Ford, although it's
a "car" it's just not the same!!! MLC

When he works at it Ronnie can occasionally ape an MT solo to a degree that the masses will accept (those who are more technique-minded will notice the differences immediately, of course - MT being the master technician, RW not). So, on that basis I'm sure RW could come up with something passable on Sway if he worked at it....

If he "WORKED" at it!! - I see too much clowning around but that's what Jagger
wanted when he replaced Taylor!! didn't want a Guitarist that just "stood there
and played" was his words!!

wonder if her ever thinks back to the Taylor days??? MLC

canadian.sway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sway will happen. one way or another in toronto
>


I love youre optimism. I might just fall on my @ss if it does.

Just wait til we get the "no security" half of this year's babylon.

MCDDTLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Creedence & Keefriff99, Ron's leads on CYHMK
> are adquate at best.
>
> Reminds me of when Peter frampton quit Humble Pie
> and he was replaced by
> Clem Clemson. yeah he could "mimic" some of
> Peter's leads but the "magic"
> was gone and Humble Pie faded away, not saying the
> Stones faded away
> (they did in my eyes as I saw them with Taylor in
> 69,72 & 73)
>
> it like driving a Ferreri then been givin the keys
> to a Ford, although it's
> a "car" it's just not the same!!! MLC


Here's where Ron Wood and Mick Taylor are so completely different playing with Keith Richards...

1) Mick Taylor: Keith just added fantastic punctuation ON TOP of Taylor's basic lines... all the time... Keith had to WORK to keep up with Taylor, that's how those 2 played together... that's how the whole band played with Taylor... MT just "took off" and everyone else kind of "kept up"... Mick Jagger was breathless half the time.

2) Ron Wood: Much more of a "team" guitarist. This "elevates" Keith, IMO... instead of just being a "punctuation boy" for Mick Taylor, Keith is much more involved in the core rhythm of the sound as well as the huge punctuations.

Now... to say that Ron Wood is just "barely adequate" to play CYHMK is just not true... did you catch this song ever on the Forty Licks Tour ? It was never played better. I remember sharing a pair of binocs with the people around me and saying... "there they are, the 2 guitarists for the Rolling Stones..." Keith & Ronnie are just MURDER on this song on a good night !....

That reference was actually keith & ronnie doing Mignight Rambler ON THE B-STAGE in Chicago... what a sight, not to mention sound. They did CYHMK brilliantly that same show too... but Midnite Rambler together on the b-stage is the single most impressive song I've ever seen live from the standpoint of Keith & Ronnie working together, or probably ANY TWO GUITARISTS together.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-21 02:17 by CreedenceLives.

CreedenceLives Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MCDDTLC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>> Now... to say that Ron Wood is just "barely
> adequate" to play CYHMK is just not true... did
> you catch this song ever on the Forty Licks Tour ?
> It was never played better. >
> "

That's just a ludicrous remark.

keefriff99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Let's see... he's "capable" of playing the
> guitar
> > lines of CYHMK but not Sway ??
>
> I agree...I think CYHMK is THE Mick Taylor solo
> when it comes to the Stones, and Ronnie did a
> quite admirable job.
>

keefriff,

No offense, but do you play guitar? the solo in CYHMK is very easy to play, don't get me wrong it's a great solo but easy to play and easy to riff off. The genius was in writing it, which is all Taylor.

> keefriff,
>
> No offense, but do you play guitar? the solo in
> CYHMK is very easy to play, don't get me wrong
> it's a great solo but easy to play and easy to
> riff off. The genius was in writing it, which is
> all Taylor.

lol...no, I don't play. I'm a guitar fanatic though and I do know a fair bit about scales, terminology, etc.

True, MT's solo isn't technically difficult, but the tone, the feel, the SMOOTHNESS, the whole composition, the way it builds to a climax is absolutely masterful, and is one of MT's finest moments as a musician.

I'm simply saying that Ronnie did admirable...there was nowhere to hide on that song. He couldn't hide between Keith's louder rhythm playing or Chuck's keyboards or Mick's antics. It was ALL HIM, and for the most part, he rose to the occasion.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CreedenceLives Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MCDDTLC Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >> Now... to say that Ron Wood is just
> "barely
> > adequate" to play CYHMK is just not true...
> did
> > you catch this song ever on the Forty Licks
> Tour ?
> > It was never played better. >
> > "
>
> That's just a ludicrous remark.


Your remark is just asinine.

Now, after exchanging insults, I'll re-state... if you ever heard Can't YOu Hear Me Knockin' OR Midnight Rambler played any better than they did on the Forty Licks Tour, I'd sure like to know WHEN AND WHERE...

I heard both songs WITH MICK TAYLOR, and I wouldn't exchange the quality of that version for what Keith and Ronnie did on 40 Licks...

Nor would anyone in our section of the U.S. watching 40 Licks, I assure you.

RW has never even approached MT on the CYHMK solo - gimme a friggin' break. I'm a big Woody fan, but I'm realistic at least....please!

T&A Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When he works at it Ronnie can occasionally ape an
> MT solo to a degree that the masses will accept
> (those who are more technique-minded will notice
> the differences immediately, of course - MT being
> the master technician, RW not). So, on that basis
> I'm sure RW could come up with something passable
> on Sway if he worked at it....


Ronnie doesn't "ape" a Mick Taylor solo... he AND Keith play guitar as a very tight team. Tighter than Keith and MT were, actually.

Not saying the sound is better or worse, just different... and after 30 years with Ronnie and all the tremendous recorded and live music this band has put together, it's amazing to me that you don't recognize that.

RW has made a living the last 30 years tryin' to ape MT - what, are you kiddin' me? You're kiddin' yourself.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RW has never even approached MT on the CYHMK solo
> - gimme a friggin' break. I'm a big Woody fan,
> but I'm realistic at least....please!

Of course he didn't come close to approaching MT, but goddamnit, at least they went for it! Ronnie sounded good to me...it wasn't cringe-worthy by any stretch. In fact it was quite well composed.

The cool jam vibe of the original remained intact, but Ronnie's interpretation was quite good IMO.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RW has never even approached MT on the CYHMK solo
> - gimme a friggin' break. I'm a big Woody fan,
> but I'm realistic at least....please!


Once again, HE PLAYS IT DIFFERENT... he and Keith play the song in a much more "team manner" than Keith and MT did... because Ronnie plays a tad slower than MT it allows Keith to become that much bigger a part of the sound and to fully develop Keiths sound rather than rushing to try to just add emphasis to MT's lines...

Maybe you like the Taylor version, it's great... but the subject of this thread is Midnight Rambler and CYHMK...

For my tastes, unquestionably the very best live version I've heard of BOTH of these songs was on the same nite... the U.C. Chicago, Forty Licks Tour...

Here's what other "reviewers" who were there said about it:

R & K Kaczmarek: "...a great show tonight... Midnight Rambler was a truly remarkable experience..."

Robert Bagel: "... the U.C. was engulfed in the rockn'roll energy that makes seeing the Stones such a pleasure...the greatest surprise of the night took place with Midnite Rambler... a serious, focused RONNIE SOUNDING HIS BEST, Keith chugging out rhythms in a nearly unvelieveable fashion that demonstrates why he's the best guitar player ever... to see Midnite Rambler played like this is as good as rock and roll gets !"

B. Miller: "...the strengths tonight were Charlie and Ronnie..."

Even the always-critical Sun-Times wrote: "...Stones get the Silver but they gave us the gold..."

From the way you Ronnie bashers talk someone could easily get the impression that all the great music they've played over 30 years together really didn't happen. Where have you been the last 30 years ? Ronnies not playing one bit different today than he was on any other tour.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-21 07:31 by CreedenceLives.

<when woody's copies taylor's lines it sounds tin

on love in vain
on all down the line
on shine a light>

Woody has played Love In Vain since the late 60s with The Faces. And I have never heard a version of LIV where Woody is copying a single Taylor slide or standard tuning-lick. The two other songs is another story

Regarding Winter; I can't see any problems for Woody playing the Taylor solos. Those solos are very easy to play. Obviously, Woody wouldn't recreate the feel, but he could play it nevertheless.