This refers to a discussion going on in the TAF thread.
It is true that EOMS is basically a Keith album, but was MT that absent?
I've always considered Exile MT's BEST studio album, ever.
This is how I hear it.

Rocks Off

The 2nd guitar you hear (standard tuning, playing the low strings, fills and chromatic runs) must be MT (he playes the same stuff live). On the c# part you can easily tell who is doing what. Nice outro solo too.

Rip This Joint

MT is credited for playing on this one and there is a second rythm guitar here. Keith takes the solo (OD).

Shake Your Hips

Again, two rythm guitars make the song. MT is credited for one. Could be.

Casino Boogie

One of my personal favs. Keith rules. But MT's slide is everywhere. Superb solo.

Tumbling Dice

Bass, of course.

Sweet Virginia

The acoustic w/o capo is Taylor. Wonderful work.

Torn and Frayed

Bass?

Sweet Black Angel

MIA (but K more than makes up for it)

Loving Cup

??? I have a video of a studio session with MT playing electric end Keith acoustic

Happy

Some OD slide

Turd on the Run

OD fills are 100% MT. Those hammer-on pull offs are absolutely incredible.

Ventilator Blues

Most of it should be MT.

I Just Want to See His Face

Bass?

Let It Loose

MIA

All Down the Line

Slide ALL over.

Stop Breaking Down

Second guitar + solo. Can't believe it's Jagger on the other guitar!

Shine a Light

Bass?? Sure the electric guitar (including the solo) is MT

Soul Survivor

Slide ALL over.


C

liddas Wrote:
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> Loving Cup
>
> ??? I have a video of a studio session with MT
> playing electric end Keith acoustic

I have seen that one, but thought it was a tour rehearsal.

It's the Montreux 1972 playback tape version

Yes liddas, I agree with you. I don't think exile is a Non Taylor album at all. yes, it's a Keith album but by the same token it's a jagger album, a Taylor album, Charlie, Nicky, Bobby, Stu, Price...and a little Wyman too. Maybe Mathijs was emphasizing his point re. Taylor on Loving Cup. That still surprises me. Those runs are so "Taylor". That rehearsal is just that a live practice with all pl;aying. I mean there is also Wyman playing Bass. And he's not on the recording.

Well,

On Rocks Off, both guitars are in standard tuning. Taylor plays the runs.

The solo on Rip This Joint is played by Taylor, not Keith.

The slide on Casino Boogie is Keith - The (fast) fill-ins are Taylor. The riffs are played by Keith.

Keith plays electric on Loving Cup (possibly also the acoustic).

The slide on Happy is Keith.

The Leslie-guitar on Let It Loose is Keith.

Jagger plays the simple O/G rhythm guitar on Stop Breakin' Down.

liddas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Sweet Black Angel
>
> MIA (but K more than makes up for it)
>
>>
> Let It Loose
>
> MIA

Just to follow the discussion properly and to check the comments whan I arrive home: what does MIA mean??

[There'll be no wedding today...]

So Dandelion you say the electric on LC is Taylor? That is what I thought but tracklistings on other sites say that there is no Taylor at all. Mathijs tells me it's Keith too. The accoustic IMO is all Keith.

MIA = missing in action

"On Rocks Off, both guitars are in standard tuning"

100% sure there is an open G there

"The solo on Rip This Joint is played by Taylor, not Keith"

100% sure it is keith

Once again ready to eat my guitar AND amp if not true (w/o ketchup)!!

C

I'll send you the ketchup

Chelsea, the electric on LC is Keith.

Thanks for the MIA hint, erikjjf.

About the comments above, I also think that both guitars on Rocks Off are standard tuning. And I think it's Keith who plays both acoustic and electric on Loving Cup.

As for the slides on Casino Boogie and the solo on RTJ I'll have to check it later, but if I recall correctly, the slides on CB sound like Keith (can't tell for sure now).

[There'll be no wedding today...]

Keith plays both the electric and the acoustic on loving cup IMO. Just listen to that acoustic, I certainly doubt it's Mick T.

BTW, I've seen that video where Keith plays the electric. So no doubt there I guess.

Does Tarle's EXILE book shed any light on this?

The acoustic on Loving Cup is definately Keith !

Of course Taylor is on the album, but my piont is that he hardly plays any really stand-out part. Most of his playing is second or third rythm guitar, and the solo's he plays aren't that spectacular or standing out. Also, the legend is that the album was recorded in Keith's basement, but reallity is that they only spent a month or so recording there, and half of the tracks didn't end up on the album, and some tracks were from earlier recordings. Most of Exile was recorded in LA's Sunset, while only about 6 or 7 tracks actually were released with the original Nellcote backing track. I have said it before, but the tragic of Taylor is that he was a Stone for 5 years, but if you want to hear the genius you have to be a hardcore bootlegger and listen to rare 1972 shows.

Rocks Off
There's four guitars, one rythm guitar by Taylro, and the outro solo's. Recorded in Nellcote and LA.

Rip This Joint
Taylor 2nd rythm, and solo. Recorded in Nellcote and LA.

Shake Your Hips
One rythm guitar, the counter part of Keith's, who plays the staccato riffs. Recorded in Stargroves and LA.

Casino Boogie
Rythm and slide by Keith, outro solo by Taylor. Recorded in LA.

Tumbling Dice
Bass. Recorded in Olympic Sound and LA.

Sweet Virginia
2nd rythm guitar, the tremelo part. Recorded in Olympic Sound and LA.

Torn and Frayed
Bass. Recorded in Olympic Sound and LA.

Sweet Black Angel
MIA. Recorded in Stargroves and LA.

Loving Cup
No Taylor. Recorded in LA.

Happy
I hear no Taylor. Recorded in Nellcote and LA.

Turd on the Run
I really doubt the riffing at 1 minute is Taylor, it's too rough to be him. Recorded in Nellcote and LA.

Ventilator Blues
Slide Keith, counter riff's Taylor. Recorded in Nellcote and LA.

I Just Want to See His Face
electric bass. Recorded in LA.

Let It Loose
MIA. Recorded in Nellcote and LA.

All Down the Line
Slide. Recorded in Olympic Sound and LA.

Stop Breaking Down
Slide. Recorded in Olympic Sound and LA.

Shine a Light
Bass and all guitar. Recorded in Olympic Sound and LA.

Soul Survivor
Slide. Recorded in Nellcote and LA.

taylor's blistering slide on ADTL is classic and one of the best duo guitar studio performances

"the tragic of Taylor is that he was a Stone for 5 years, but if you want to hear the genius you have to be a hardcore bootlegger and listen to rare 1972 shows."

Absolutely true. And I see your point. But try re considering things from the perspective of the non-hardcore. What we consider "ordinary" playing by Taylor, is "extraordinary" by normal standards. I have my tough time to convince people that the Stones could actually play some good music (the odd guitar heroes being Clapton, Page, and Gilmor). Exile often is enough to shatter their convinctions. Bruxelles makes them addicts ...

Having said this:

The solo on Rip This Joint: well, you have to agree that Taylor sounds very Keefish on this!

Happy: there is an od slide solo, with, yes, a "vibrato" that makes me think ...

Turd on the Run: I don't know if we are referring to the same riffing. The one I have in mind is that descending pattern on A pentatonic, 1st position. Way too fast to be Keith.

C

<Way too fast to be Keith.>

Don't forget Rip This Joint on the same album...

yes clapton and the rest, taylor's body of work with the stones in the studio
and live is better than IMO what the rest did during that period 69 to 74.

Maybe someday the rock historians will point that out and acknowledge taylor's
greatness

>> Of course Taylor is on the album, but my piont is that he hardly plays any really stand-out part. <<

which is just what i love about his playing on Exile:
he fits in, instead of standing out - and i'm ducking. :E


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

Maybe taylor does the best keith richards and thats why we have this
discussion trying to figure out those two beautiful background guitars
throughout exile.LOL

DP:

True,but 1) TOTR is way faster than RTJ and 2) one thing is strumming full chords, another is playing a single note arpeggio with hammer ons and pull offs. This implies a very skilful use of alternate picking which I've never seen Keith show of before or since.

C

There are some points here I am absolutely npt agreeing with Mahijs. About several of the tunes being recorded in LA. Many of the songs you mentioned are written aboput in several books having been recorded in Nellcote.

<DP:

True,but 1) TOTR is way faster than RTJ and 2) one thing is strumming full chords, another is playing a single note arpeggio with hammer ons and pull offs. This implies a very skilful use of alternate picking which I've never seen Keith show of before or since.>

It's not difficult at all (TOTR). Open G-tuning, your index finger on the B string (3rd fret) and little finger on the light E string (5th fret) for the "full" G chord. Alternate between the bass string and the lighter strings for the start of the riff.

Then you slip those two fingers and add your ring finger on the 5th fret (not covering the dark G-string). This sounds like a classic Keith riff, but as you see it is played in a more complex way. BUT: not to complex for Keith to manage it. My guess is that he learned this (or something similar) from another guitar player.

DP: we are not discussing the same riff / arpeggio!

The one I am referring to is not the main rythm guitar. It is the second (third?) guitar pattern that starts (i.e. is audible) just after the "Well I lost a lot of love over you" line.

Now THAT I believe is not Keith.

C

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are some points here I am absolutely npt
> agreeing with Mahijs. About several of the tunes
> being recorded in LA. Many of the songs you
> mentioned are written aboput in several books
> having been recorded in Nellcote.

Yep, that's the myth. In most books they say "Exile was recorded in the basement", then some books say "recorded in the basement, but overdubs in LA", and there's just one or two books (the Perry book as being one of the best) that come close to what is probably the truth. The best description of the sessions are given by Andy Johns, Anita Pallenberg and Mick Taylor, and you can learn a lot from quotes by other Stones or people aroudn the Stones. Andy Johns says that the Stones recorded the full month of July, but that nothing came out of it due to the absence of Keith. Jagger was really frustrated with that, and left to Bianca. Johns remembers that Jagger wrote Fast Talking, Let it Loose, Ventilator Blues and I Ani't Lying with Taylor in July and Keith did Casino Boogie. The Stones then did onother session with Jagger more not present than present in late October, where they worked on Soul Survivor, Rip This Joint, Happy and Rocks Off. All in all they recorded the basics of 7 tracks in 6 weeks time. Then in total three and a halve months were spent in Sunset: December 1971, January 1972, and 15 february to early April.

For the sessions in LA, from Nellcote the 7 basic tracks (bass and drums, and sometimes one guitar track) were used, all else was recorded in LA. Johns said that when they came to LA, the sounds from the basement sounded horrible, and were quite useless as there was hardly any seperation between the instruments, only the drums sounded really good. The total of tracks was completed by adding tracks from London sessions (Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel, All Down the Line, Shine a Light) and other tracks were either rerecorded in LA (like Loving Cup) or for the first time recorded in LA (Just want to see his Face, Torn and Frayed, Turd on the Run).

This info is compiled mostly from interviews with Jimmy Miller, Andy Johns, Anita Pallenberg and Mick Taylor, but can also be checked with studio sheets from L.A., which were on sale a couple of years ago.

It's a great myth -outlaw junkie guitarist flees his country, goes in Exile and records the best Rock album of all time in the basement- but it simply is not true. At least, for a great part.

Mathijs

Is The Rolling Stones' Exile on Main St. (33 1/3) by Bill Janovitz worth buying?

C

wasn't Ventilator Blues recorded due to the 'lack of' ventilation in the basement at Nellcote ?

Back to Taylor - I think Exile is better off not having soaring solos anyway. The music is very muddy sounding blues and this makes it such a great success....

Goats HS is completely different....

M, I used to have this very good friend; my best friend ever. And when we would have an argument and he'd run out fuel, like when I was making too much sense he'd go "You're wrong. Even if you're right, you're wrong." LOL
Yes I have the Perry book which is the best book on Exile. Problem with me is I read all those books in my own "Exile phase" LOL. I do remember Andy Johns saying that lots of what they had dfrom Nellcote was problematic because of the humidity and the guitars not staying in tune. I just didn't recall so much of it being re-recorded. I tyhink even Andy J. and Anita have to have tainted memories. If they were living a bit as hard as they keep telling everyone. "We had these H dealers come in with Kilos on the floor..." "and John Lennon threw up on the carpet and left..."then they can't be held to lucid memories.
AJ tells the tale of Jim Price's recording of the organ on "Torn and Frayed". This supposedly took place in Nellcote and was part of the basic track.
"Sweet Virginia" has the Nellcote personnel singing and playing. "Loving Cup" must've gone though many changes and re-takes since it is one of tyhe very oldest tracks. Plus Jagger tells that there were the takes with more Steel drums, so that does spell LA. "Turd" just reeks of Nellcote but then there is the Uprite Bass so that means LA. "Breaking Down" ...I don't know. The atmosphere sure reeks of France.
And "Just wanna see his Face" I recall the words of Dr John who tells the story of Keith directing the megajam from behind the electric piano. One automatically assumes Nellcote, you're right. But if Dr Joh was called in to fix and edit it up it sure sounds like LA. And "Tuimbling Dice"...I mean AJ is the one who keeps saying that Keith had everyone playing the song for weeks until oner night the magic showed up.
Whatever the final locations may be, the end result id perfect and conveys the atmosphere of the danky basement. Of the rebel rockband in exile playing some sweaty rock'n roll. That's is sort of the idea.
To be honest I would rather think that that is the way it went down.