Before I turn in for the night, I've seen a lot of posts
regarding the poor performances on this tour.
Any thoughts? I saw the 2 LA shows in '81 and they
were quite spirited, as was the Hampton show on PPV.
But what seemed to happen on this jaunt?

Chuck Leavell replaced Mac.

...and Gene Barge replaced Ernie Watts.

Well, the Stones always seem to do the best shows in the first leg of the tour, in USA, and the energy level and enthusiasm somehow decrease (which also can be seen in setlists) when they get to Europe. I suppose the worst autopilot shows are always in Europe.

- Doxa

All this combined makes the '81 American Tour the best of possible worlds: two fantastic side musicians (esp. Watts meandering through the songs -pure improvisational genius) and the fresh spirit and energy of a first leg. Just compare Imagination from Hampton with the Naples version. Man, did Gene Barge have a parrot in his horn?

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"Music is the frozen tapioca in the ice chest of history."

"Shit!... No shit, awright!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-08 11:46 by Greg.

I have the three New Jersey shows from 5th 6th and 7th of November 1981 and the performance there is horrible(im big fan of the 1981 tour!) ive not heard such bad shows from 1982.

Saw three shows, two Wembley and Leeds. Thought they got better as they went along.

<I have the three New Jersey shows from 5th 6th and 7th of November 1981 and the performance there is horrible>

Do you really think so? Some numbers yes, but overall I think the shows were good. They used a lot of material from the shows for Still Life as well...

For really bad 81 shows, try the second Philly show and Buffalo.

That has got to suck for Europe to basically get sloppy seconds all the time. In all fairness the Stones should turn it around and begin in Euro somwetimes. The Lixtour has all the cool tunes early on. Wonder what '78 - the second leg would have sounded like.
I have heard many '82 boots and definetly have to agree that they sound totally on autopilot. Jagger's outfits were also comical by then. he comes out in those striped tights in the USA I think even Jaggerboy gets laughed at.
Musically at the time I didn't like them that much. I guess I didn't know a good thing when I had it. In retro the guitars are awesome. I was not a fan of TY ever. The new Orleans show was good though altho I thought the Neville Bros ruled that night. But I saw them at the small Fox in Atlanta afterwards in 110 dgree heat inside. It was one of the most killer rocking shows I have ever seen Pure Stones! But about Ernie Watts: the worst!!!! There are some boots (I think the KC show with Taylor is one) where he will not shut up. The guy is like a knob that was switched to the ON position at the first tune and was never turned off. "Pure improvisational genius"...come on! What about dynamics and subtlety?

Let's not generalize. I mean, they have done some crappy shows in the US, and some really amazing ones in Europe as well.

It seems Ernie Watts devides the IORR community almost as much as Ronnie does! I happen to like his playing a lot and I don't think he lacks subtlety at all. IMO of all the most prominent side musicians (besides the hard core: Nicky, Bobby, etc.) he was the only one who fitted in really well. TOTALLY incomparable to Chuck.
Here;'s recent thread about Watts:

[iorr.org]



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"Music is the frozen tapioca in the ice chest of history."

"Shit!... No shit, awright!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-08 16:24 by Greg.

I like him too. He made the band roll. OK, he may have played too much at times, but he has some of the unstructured rawness that the stones needed in that period (and now even more!).

I never really thought about it much until I read some of these recent threads, but yeah, listening to the 81-82 shows, I do prefer Ernie's style on that tour. I'm not that familiar with his other work oustide of that tour however.

I know Bobby's practically an honorary Stone and a great guy but I also happen to prefer Mel Collins' style of playing ("Dance" etc)

Wembley 25th June 1982 was a great show!

erikjjf Wrote:
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> Let's not generalize. I mean, they have done some
> crappy shows in the US, and some really amazing
> ones in Europe as well.


precisely. it's bogus when folks talk in generalities like this. i don't even really buy in to "good nights" and "bad nights." Certain songs may be better (judgment call at best) some nights than others. But, on the whole, the difference between a particularly 'hot' night and an 'off' night is negligle. Alot of it is perception, vantage, sound-system, drugs, alcohol (and quality of recording, in the case of listening to a show second-hand).