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Taylor Era
going in with the preconception that anything fluid or non-Chucklike can't be keith is how the discussion gets skewed, in the end. As is focusing on solos.

-- well I agree with that in the sense that there are plenty of great songs without any solo at all, but the question asked in this thread was 'dont you think keith played more leads (which I read as solos) in the taylor era than the name implies'

I dont think so

keith is not a fluid soloist, i mean just listento the two Ya Ya's 'sympathy' solos; one is choppy and stacatto, the other fluid and melodic

keith has always been kind of a hack when it comes to soloing, but that doesnt mean he is a shitty soloist, that is just this particular style; I happen to like it

Agreed and agreed. I love both solos on the Ya-Ya's SFTD but they are night and day...Keith's is savage and powerful, and then MT just blows you away...

And KR's solos on live Bitch and HTW, as well as studio SFTD are great, maybe not technically great, but they work...

KR's solos on live Bitch and HTW

- - - anybody kno whow to play the whole HTW solo? I can play the rest of the song in open G no problem but have the damndest time with that solo..does Keith play that solo in standard tuning or open G on the record? I am guessing open G since he plays the solo and the song live in that key .. I have no idea how to solo in open G

Keith plays the solo in open G. I suppose their are tabs out there that give the basic idea but in brief Keith plays the solo in a pentatonic scale and essentially follows the chord changes. I would take your favorite version, convert it to a mp3 or wave and use something like Windows media player to slow it down to half speed and learn it by ear. You might also check out youtube as there are a few videos there that give the basic idea. Try it and have fun!

Keith plays the solo in open G. I suppose their are tabs out there that give the basic idea but in brief Keith plays the solo in a pentatonic scale and essentially follows the chord changes. I would take your favorite version, convert it to a mp3 or wave and use something like Windows media player to slow it down to half speed and learn it by ear. You might also check out youtube as there are a few videos there that give the basic idea. Try it and have fun!

- - thanks! I can follow the chord changes ok, there is really just G, C and D, but because the strings go (low to high) G,D,G.B,D it knocks me off...unless..the solo is only played on the D,G and B strings..then it wouldnt matter.. since those are all in standard tuning anyways.. maybe that is the trick!

how do you slow windows media player to half speed??

You get a pretty good shot of him playing the solo on the Gimme Shelter movie, too...

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Taylor Era

- - thanks! I can follow the chord changes ok, there is really just G, C and D, but because the strings go (low to high) G,D,G.B,D it knocks me off...unless..the solo is only played on the D,G and B strings..then it wouldnt matter.. since those are all in standard tuning anyways.. maybe that is the trick!

how do you slow windows media player to half speed??

Don't forget that there is an A chord in there as well! G, C, G, A, D

Don't forget that there is an A chord in there as well! G, C, G, A, D

yep, yer right, there is an A in there ...although I do it (maybe wrongly) as G-C (5th fret)-descending riff - A(2nd fret) - D (7th fret)

.. for that A part (after the super cool descending Keith riff after the C - I play it only on the G and B strings on the second fret for that bit, and pull off on the B from 3rd to 2nd fret while holding down the G string, too..and then move up to 7th fret for the D chord

..thanks for the tip.. I was able to figure out the Dead Flowers solo (more or less) from Sticky so I hope to be able to get a handle on this !!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-25 19:58 by Taylor Era.

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ChrisM
Quote cc:

"Who plays the solos on "Dead Flowers" is endlessly debated here" Indeed it has been. I always thought Mick T. was playing the background fills and Keith the solo on that song. The phrasing on the solo is not typical of Mick's soloing style while it is more like Keith's from that period. Still, I recall even Mathijs has stated at one time that it was Keith playing the solo and then on another occasion Mick on another. We may never know for certain...

I am not sure if I ever stated keith did the solo on Dead Flowers, but anyway: it is Taylor for sure. In fact, the electric guitars sound like they have been recorded live and in one take. Taylor does the tremelo picking on the left channel, and this guitar also takes the solo.

Mathijs

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Taylor Era
[I was able to figure out the Dead Flowers solo (more or less) from Sticky so I hope to be able to get a handle on this !!

This is not intended as a comment on the ability of the players, but I usually find it easier to figure out a Taylor solo than a Keith solo.

sounds like MT to me

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texas fan

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Taylor Era
[I was able to figure out the Dead Flowers solo (more or less) from Sticky so I hope to be able to get a handle on this !!

This is not intended as a comment on the ability of the players, but I usually find it easier to figure out a Taylor solo than a Keith solo.

If you're playing Keith's parts in standard tuning, that's probably why...

If you're playing Keith's parts in standard tuning, that's probably why...



Dead Flowers solo is in standard tuning..HTW is not

not all Keith's parts are in open G; his solo on sympathy studio and ya ya's for example are both in standard tuning, and neither of those are hard to figure out; I find MT's are harder to figure out because in so many cases they are faster and there are more notes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-25 22:08 by Taylor Era.

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Mathijs
I am not sure if I ever stated keith did the solo on Dead Flowers, but anyway: it is Taylor for sure. In fact, the electric guitars sound like they have been recorded live and in one take. Taylor does the tremelo picking on the left channel, and this guitar also takes the solo.

Mathijs

You did state as much, albeit a few years ago: Keith's Clean Electric Guitar Solo on Wild Horses Perhaps now you'll finally answer the question I posed way back then!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-25 22:22 by ChrisM.

There are two electric guitars solo-ing (basically) through out the song. They have a similar sound and are also both in roughyl the same register. IMO it is clearly Taylor who takes the solo. Let us say the left channel is the electric that we hear first; it comes in comping on a chord mainly. In the 1st chorus they are both taking fills. I think anyone here with a decent ear can tell both guitars apart; it is the guitar in the right channel that takes the solo. I guess at that point it comes down to personal assessment. (Like the slide in Jigsaw Puzzle) I think it is Taylor.

I am not sure if I ever stated keith did the solo on Dead Flowers

You did state as much, albeit a few years ago: Keith's Clean Electric Guitar Solo on Wild Horses



it is the guitar in the right channel that takes the solo. I guess at that point it comes down to personal assessment. (Like the slide in Jigsaw Puzzle) I think it is Taylor.

me too



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-25 22:40 by Taylor Era.

Agree that hearing things played in open tuning makes it a little different to decipher if you're used to hearing a guitar in standard tuning. With open G, of course, the tuning of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings is unchanged, and keith does a lot of his work on those strings, so I'm not sure the fact that it's open tuning totally explains why it's harder for me to figure out

Keith's playing of fills, riffs and solos typically involves more multi-string playing than most "lead players,' and he varies his technique, with both hands, from song to song and day to day. He usually uses a pick, but not always, and whatever he uses, he attackes the strings differently at different times. He also switches between between bending, hammering and sliding between notes, sometimes in the same phrase. I think it's mainly the fact that he's playing more than one string at once, and shifting the pitch on one or more strings but not all of them, that makes it harder for me to discern than the average solo is.

These things are subtle, but they are deliberate choices calculated to create a certain effect, and they are important to the end result, but often go unnoticed or unappreciated, particularly by those that analyze guitar playing in terms of how many notes per second are played. Not that there's anything wrong with appreciating fluidity -- it's a nice tool to have if used appropriately.

I've never had a problem with the HTW solo. Personally the Love You Live version is the best version of HTW EVER.

Posted by: T&A
"the ancient art of deceiving, err, weaving is the biggest myth ever perpetrated by keith...."

... If you don't hear them 'weave' in "Flight n° 505", f.i. ... I'm not (nobody is) saying it was álways the case, but at least they layed it down some-, and in fact: quite several times, even in the (Brian Jones) 'early days', didn't day?
It was the best of times, it was the beginning of times- that kinda thing.

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ChrisM

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Mathijs
I am not sure if I ever stated keith did the solo on Dead Flowers, but anyway: it is Taylor for sure. In fact, the electric guitars sound like they have been recorded live and in one take. Taylor does the tremelo picking on the left channel, and this guitar also takes the solo.

Mathijs

You did state as much, albeit a few years ago: Keith's Clean Electric Guitar Solo on Wild Horses Perhaps now you'll finally answer the question I posed way back then!

Not that it matters anything, but in the mentioned thread from 2006 I also state that Taylor does the DF solo, and Keith the WH solo.

The give-away in the Dead Flowers solo is the fast run at the very end of the solo, the last two bars. That is typically Taylor, much to fast and fluid for Keith.

Mathijs

Dead Flowers solo Mick.
Wild Horses solo Keith.

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Filip020169
... If you don't hear them 'weave' in "Flight n° 505", f.i. ... I'm not (nobody is) saying it was álways the case, but at least they layed it down some-, and in fact: quite several times, even in the (Brian Jones) 'early days', didn't day?
It was the best of times, it was the beginning of times- that kinda thing.

agreed, but on that track it might actually be 2 keiths, rather than a keith and a brian.

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Mathijs

Not that it matters anything, but in the mentioned thread from 2006 I also state that Taylor does the DF solo, and Keith the WH solo.

The give-away in the Dead Flowers solo is the fast run at the very end of the solo, the last two bars. That is typically Taylor, much to fast and fluid for Keith.

Mathijs

You're right. It doesn't really matter. I was just curious as to why you had shifted your view. To me, the solo didn't sound quite like a typical Mick solo and not quite typically Keith either but more like him than Mick to my ears. I need to give it a very serious listen (again) and remove any preconceptions I have. Play on!

I've always wondered what chords Taylor was playing when Keith was also playing chords? For example, in a song like Brown Sugar, would Taylor have played the same chords as Keith but in standard tuning? I've tried listening on the boots and can never quite hear Taylor's chord parts clearly. I'd love to know as I can play a basic open G chord progression but would love to be able to do a bit of Mick T too!

For example, in a song like Brown Sugar, would Taylor have played the same chords as Keith but in standard tuning?

- - think so, yep; along with fills and whatnot

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Father Ted
I've always wondered what chords Taylor was playing when Keith was also playing chords? For example, in a song like Brown Sugar, would Taylor have played the same chords as Keith but in standard tuning? I've tried listening on the boots and can never quite hear Taylor's chord parts clearly. I'd love to know as I can play a basic open G chord progression but would love to be able to do a bit of Mick T too!

Yes, I think that is very interesting too. Whenever the chance was there and I could watch in a video I was always amazed to see Taylor play very straight chording. I mean Taylor played in standard tuning so it makes sense, but still..
Personally I think it is very easy to tell Taylor and Keith apart, no matter what they are playing. Eg. the whole first section of CYHMK, it is typical the different way the guitars sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-27 07:18 by Palace Revolution 2000.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Father Ted
I've always wondered what chords Taylor was playing when Keith was also playing chords? For example, in a song like Brown Sugar, would Taylor have played the same chords as Keith but in standard tuning? I've tried listening on the boots and can never quite hear Taylor's chord parts clearly.

Whenever the chance was there and I could watch in a video I was always amazed to see Taylor play very straight chording. I mean Taylor played in standard tuning so it makes sense, but still..
Personally I think it is very easy to tell Taylor and Keith apart, no matter what they are playing. Eg. the whole first section of CYHMK, it is typical the different way the guitars sound.

Is he playing Richards' chords even on RTJ during the '72 & '73 tours?

Can you easily tell them apart throughout the outro solo on SFTD @ Hyde Park?

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Palace Revolution 2000
Eg. the whole first section of CYHMK, it is typical the different way the guitars sound.

But we don't know for sure the rythm guitar is Taylor - It has always sounded like an overdub to me, and I wouldn't be surprised it's Richards. Also, Taylor has commented on several occasions he played the solo on his ES-345 (actually a 355), but never mentions anything about the first part.

Mathijs

It's Mick Taylor.

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Amsterdamned
It's Mick Taylor.

Because?

Mathijs