Woody Payne..well Johnson didn't credit Leroy Carr for the When The Sun
Goes Down the basis of Love In Vain or Blind Lemon for what he borrowed either ....

Blind Lemon Jefferson - Dry Southern Blues 1929

My mind leads me to take a trip down south
My mind leads me to take a trip down south
Take a trip down south and stop at a fatmouth's house

One train's at the depot with the red and blue lights behind
One train's at the depot with the red and blue lights behind
Well, the blue light's the blues, the red light's the worried mind

I hate to tell you, sugar, it t'ain't nobody there
I hate to tell you, sugar, it t'ain't nobody there
If a man stay here, he'll stay most anywhere

I got up this mornin', ramblin' for my shoes
I got up this mornin', ramblin' for my shoes
The little woman said to me, 'It's all the world-weary blues'

Uncle Sam was no woman, but didn't he draft your man?
Uncle Sam was no woman, but didn't he draft your man?
Tell me them good-lookin' womens on the border's raisin' sand.

Well, women on the border's drinkin' over the water trough
Well, women on the border's drinkin' over the water trough
I wished Uncle Sam would hurry up and pay these soldiers off

I can't drink coffee and the woman won't make no tea
I can't drink coffee and the woman won't make no tea
I believe to my soul sweet mama gonna hoodoo me

I asked the girl did she love me, said, 'Lemon, I don't know how'
I asked the girl did she love me, said, 'Lemon, I don't know how'
Caught me commentatin', 'Yes, I love you sky high'

She had feet like a monkey, head like a teddy bear
She had feet like a monkey, head like a teddy bear
And a mouth full of lip, I guarantees it's everywhere.

I've got a girl in Cuba, I've got a girl in Spain
I've got a girl in Cuba, I've got a girl in Spain
I've got a brownie yonder in Dallas, I'm afraid to call her name



ROCKMAN

Quote
nankerphlege
Their impact on modern music can be argued to be greater than a mozart, wagner, etc.

I guess anything can be argued.
I can argue that I'm a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant..but there
is absolutely no evidence of that.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-06 02:31 by sweet neo con.

Quote
T&A

Quote
nankerphlege
Sounds like a plan T&A! Deal! If I win I will take you out for lunch!

and if i win, you'll take me out to dinner.....

By that time you'll both be worm food anyway.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
nankerphlege
Their impact on modern music can be argued to be greater than a mozart, wagner, etc.

I guess anything can be argued.
I can argue that I'm a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant..but there
is absolutely no evidence of that.

I have SEEN evidence of that.


p

Quote
Rockman
Woody Payne..well Johnson didn't credit Leroy Carr for the When The Sun
Goes Down the basis of Love In Vain or Blind Lemon for what he borrowed either ....

he did publicly acknowledge those debts according to many sources and as far as I know, didn't reap much in the way of financial reward for his songwriting. the stones, on the other hand, didn't take the opportunity to publicly recognize johnson, but rather gave "credit" to a fictitious bluesman, instead....

Now that I have caught up with the latest posts, I feel a bit gratified as I can see I "touched a chord" in some people at least. Some have reacted strongly and I think that alone tells u something.

I deliberately overstated the case in the beginning. However, I also said straight out at that time how obsesssed with the Stones I am. And, of course, that "piece of the stage." I like GNAT cuz he has a great way of refuting or hitting back at me and I kinda like the style.

Not as great of a style as Barn Owl, but a cool style nonetheless.

For some, I still maintain it is a bit akin to worship. Maybe not worship per se in the strict religious sense (except for me and THE PLEXIGLASS, of course), but something not unlike that. For others, it is the music and for still others, entertainment. And any or all in a combination of the above.

What I am really questioning and what I do not think can be denied (well, you can and you have) is that there is, in America and really elsewhere, a certain level of what I see as too much interest and even obsession with celebrities, or a culture of celebrity, and I do think that says something about people, including myself, some on this board, and lots of folks everywhere.

The Rolling Stones are simply a part of that.

Do you deny that there is a "culture of celebrity" in the modern world?? Do you say this does not exist? And if you say that and say it so strongly, then I begin to wonder if I have a point.

And GNAT, no, I cannot tell you anything about how you actually are (how would I know as I do not know u personally), but I can make observations. As can u. And we both have. So there!!


THEFRIGGINPLEXIGLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-06 08:46 by timbernardis.

The notion of "worship" you speak of...

Do you feel that celebrity worship is any different than worshipping a polymer resin such as Plexiglas®?
To answer that question, you might want to "get out of character" and explain the whole Plexiglas® schtick.

oh god, all that again?


p

"But isn't it kinda sad when we spend so much time and money on something that is obviously WAY beyond the music. Let's call it what it is -- Idol Worship."

It's not sad that people do things they enjoy! Why should interest in a band be worse than other interests?

The interest in The Stones is partly about the core - the music - partly about other things. All interests can be divided that way. No one is interested only in the core of their interest!

Quote
timbernardis

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
nankerphlege
Their impact on modern music can be argued to be greater than a mozart, wagner, etc.

I guess anything can be argued.
I can argue that I'm a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant..but there
is absolutely no evidence of that.

I have SEEN evidence of that.


p

You've seen me play better than Kobe???

Tim...I actually do understand your point....that the music of the Rolling Stones etc...
has had an impact on society....at least more than Duran Duran.
But, you did state your case in a very condescending way.
Obviously GNAT felt offended by your implication that anybody that does not
agree with you is lacking brain cells.

The "idol worship" analogy is a bit strong....unless your talking about
some people's feelings for obama.

And when you wrote: "I deliberately overstated the case in the beginning."
That's obvious back-pedaling.

But...to each his own.


IORR............but I like it!

What about passion instead obsession ?
Would fit better,I think,at least for me.

And tim,you´re right,that plexithing has been analysed to death...
furthermore it´s symbolizing some kind of.....?

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
timbernardis

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
nankerphlege
Their impact on modern music can be argued to be greater than a mozart, wagner, etc.

I guess anything can be argued.
I can argue that I'm a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant..but there
is absolutely no evidence of that.

I have SEEN evidence of that.


p

You've seen me play better than Kobe???

Tim...I actually do understand your point....that the music of the Rolling Stones etc...
has had an impact on society....at least more than Duran Duran.
But, you did state your case in a very condescending way.
Obviously GNAT felt offended by your implication that anybody that does not
agree with you is lacking brain cells.

The "idol worship" analogy is a bit strong....unless your talking about
some people's feelings for obama.

And when you wrote: "I deliberately overstated the case in the beginning."
That's obvious back-pedaling.

But...to each his own.

Indeed I have seen the evidence.

as to backpedaling, u do not know my state of mind nor my motives when I put this thread together.

I am glad it bothered people enuf to not only post, but to get rather vehement in some of those posts.

Gotta hand it to GNAT.


the plexi

Quote
timbernardis

as to backpedaling, u do not know my state of mind...
the plexi

but you presumed to know the "state of mind" of other Stones fans/IORRers
when you said some were in denial...and that it was more than the music..it was idol worship etc....

i don't think you anticipated that some would take offence to being
lumped in with kool-aid drinkers (idol worshippers)...that's all.
live & let live.


IORR............but I like it!

Ah, now the old boy is doing a bit of a back pedal, hindsight being 20/20. Your post was pointless and you were being an ass. If that is/was your motive, to look like an epic-proportion ass, you have achieved your goal, sir. Congradulations and all that. You have won a solid-plexi cup, worth in excess of $5.95. You earned it.

Now, explain what words you are going to use in the future, so all the stupid posters here can study their meanings and not fail you.

Hey GNAT is G-N-A-T an acronym for something??? A Stones song??


IORR............but I like it!

No, its a name that one of my managers calls me. She says I'm so irritating, like a GNAT. I won't go away, no matter how much she swats at me.

Quote
timbernardis

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
timbernardis

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
nankerphlege
Their impact on modern music can be argued to be greater than a mozart, wagner, etc.

I guess anything can be argued.
I can argue that I'm a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant..but there
is absolutely no evidence of that.

I have SEEN evidence of that.


p

You've seen me play better than Kobe???

Tim...I actually do understand your point....that the music of the Rolling Stones etc...
has had an impact on society....at least more than Duran Duran.
But, you did state your case in a very condescending way.
Obviously GNAT felt offended by your implication that anybody that does not
agree with you is lacking brain cells.

The "idol worship" analogy is a bit strong....unless your talking about
some people's feelings for obama.

And when you wrote: "I deliberately overstated the case in the beginning."
That's obvious back-pedaling.

But...to each his own.

Indeed I have seen the evidence.

as to backpedaling, u do not know my state of mind nor my motives when I put this thread together.

I am glad it bothered people enuf to not only post, but to get rather vehement in some of those posts.

Gotta hand it to GNAT.


the plexi

But Tim,their is satrting a thread to try and start a discussion.But then to start a thread where you deliberately try and provoke strong reactions from people. Just the wrong way to go about things imho.

The fellow is obviously lonely. Why else would one do what he has done? I suggest the company of a woman. I do believe its been awhile for the old boy. Surely a plexi-perversion can last only so long. These things often pass, but in this case, it seems to have taken deep root.


I do not like being thought for. I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself. No person knows my motives and my thoughts but me.

I never thought that anyone on a Rolling Stones message board would have to defend their motives for liking them. It all seems a bit silly.

Quote
GNAT
She says I'm so irritating, like a GNAT. I won't go away, no matter how much she swats at me.

I'm sure Tim/Plexi is happy to know this fact.


IORR............but I like it!

I have out lasted far tougher than him.

Gnat, you are most enjoyable.

Lots of people don't agree, but thanks.

Have I ever given you hell before? I don't remember.

"Do you deny that there is a "culture of celebrity" in the modern world??"

who would deny this? No one. It's hardly a "provocative" comment. It's like asking, "Are we in the age of computers?"

a better question is, how do the Stones relate to celebrity culture. I would say only tangentially. The reason most of us are here, I believe, is because of the Stones' music. The group was central to, and benefited massively from, the explosion in media and youth markets in the late 20th century, but they are fundamentally musicians who were not "celebrities" to begin. One can listen to the Stones' records without being interested in the group's actual lifestyle, though the songs present an imaginary lifestyle that is part of the appeal. Some people might be drawn to the band by their celebrity, but there would be few reasons to focus on the Stones in particular for this cause.

those really interested in tangential aspects of the band like their romantic affairs, or who need to craft an internet identity by deciding to focus on pieces of their stage, could probably be more satisfied with other, purer celebrities.

T&A,and Gazza ,the two of you are the VOICE of REASON .thank you for setting the record correctly in regards to MOZART and WAGNER.please their works have truly stood the test of time .Mozart was rocking out back three hundred years ago and Wagner over a hundred years ago . so history will determine where the stones rank with the CLASSICS

awww, shucks...it was really nothin'....can't speak for gazza, though...

Thank you for speaking up for Mozart, Wagner,Beethoven etc.

Well I'm here to speak about the mindboggling parallel to,can you believe, Michaelangelo.

All that tedious artistry hour after hour and now according to Nanker's post poor Michaelangelo's just another ancient hasbeen not fit to lick the boots of Ronnie Wood and Co.

GNAT -- a budding and true classic on the boards. I enjoy the fact that I have bothered u quite a bit and just for the record, I too have been called a "persistent bugger." More later on this and on u.

cc, now your post is thoughtful and deals with this topic in an non-emotional fashion, something that others would be well to do, but I know it does not satisfy the emotionality and anger that this thread has engendered and which, frankly, is more satisfying and more fun.


Plexi

Ringo:

Why should interest in a band be worse than other interests?

plexi - Did I say that?

The interest in The Stones is partly about the core - the music - partly about other things. All interests can be divided that way. No one is interested only in the core of their interest!

plexi - OK, now we are getting somewhere – and this is true.


Sweet neo con:

Plexi...I actually do understand your point....that the music of the Rolling Stones etc...
has had an impact on society....at least more than Duran Duran.

Plexi - Again, we are getting somewhere.

But, you did state your case in a very condescending way.
Obviously GNAT felt offended by your implication that anybody that does not
agree with you is lacking brain cells.

Plexi - Yes I would say u r right, but I how can one make a statement about anti-intellectualism without being accused of being a snob? In addition, was GNAT really offended, just wanted to grandstand, or both?

The "idol worship" analogy is a bit strong....unless your talking about
some people's feelings for obama.

Plexi - I don’t feel that the idol worship is out of line and it applies everywhere – in politics, music, movies (especially), and sports (almost as much – i.e. the frenzy over whoever like Beckham, Barry Bonds, Tiger, etc – yes, all talented people, but that’s not all there is to it.

And when you wrote: "I deliberately overstated the case in the beginning."
That's obvious back-pedaling.

Plexi - Ah, but u don’t know that when I started this thread, I was angry over some things that have been happening to me like at work and I just felt like I wanted to fight.

But...to each his own.

Plexi - Indeed.



Shortfatfanny:

What about passion instead obsession ?
Would fit better,I think,at least for me.

Plexi - Yes, I can see that – I think there is both passion AND obsession amongst Stones fans including those on this board.

And tim,you´re right,that plexithing has been analysed to death...
furthermore it´s symbolizing some kind of.....?

Plexi -- Yes????


Sweet neo con:

but you presumed to know the "state of mind" of other Stones fans/IORRers
when you said some were in denial...and that it was more than the music..it was idol worship etc....

Plexi -- presumption, perhaps, but it was more of a general statement about all Stones fans and well, I take that back lest I be accused again of backpedaling, I don’t care, I will fight u all, alone if necessary … I think that some are into idol worship, some the music, some whatever else;

uh oh, I think I just backpedalled; and actually, so what if I do – don’t u, doesn’t everybody from time to time; actually it may have been a case of seeing a point and conceding/agreeing with it, and don’t we all have a right to do that too? Oh hell, let’s resume the fight rather than any more backpedaling!!

i don't think you anticipated that some would take offence to being
lumped in with kool-aid drinkers (idol worshippers)...that's all.

Plexi -- That’s where u are wrong – it is very common in modern society to have lots of so-called “normal” idol worhippers, whether that be in music, sports, politicians, movie stars – and maybe the commonness and “normality” of it is what makes it so scary!!

live & let live.

Plexi -- Well, indeed, but I can make my observations and fight with whoever too.


GNAT!!! :

Ah, now the old boy is doing a bit of a back pedal, hindsight being 20/20. Your post was pointless and you were being an ass.

Plexi -- Got yer goat, did I ?? I don’t think it was pointless at all – carried to an extreme, overstated perhaps, but not pointless.


If that is/was your motive, to look like an epic-proportion ass, you have achieved your goal, sir.

Plexi -- Great, thanks!!

Congradulations and all that. You have won a solid-plexi cup, worth in excess of $5.95. You earned it.

Plexi -- Love it!!


Now, explain what words you are going to use in the future, so all the stupid posters here can study their meanings and not fail you.

Plexi -- I never give people reactions when they want them.


Sweet charmed life:

But Tim,their is satrting a thread to try and start a discussion.But then to start a thread where you deliberately try and provoke strong reactions from people. Just the wrong way to go about things imho.

Plexi -- I think I have succeeded in both – provoked people and started a discussion. I don’t feel the need to be nice all the time. “Oh, what a nice guy.” How boring.

As WC Fields once said “the a*sholes are the only ones who make any difference/change things in the world” or something akin to that. There are enuf nice guys in the world. Not everyone need be one.

Some of the best teachers I have had and best people I know are those that challenged others, even with extreme views, though I don’t really think what I have said is extreme.


GNAT!!! :

The fellow is obviously lonely. Why else would one do what he has done? I suggest the company of a woman. I do believe its been awhile for the old boy. Surely a plexi-perversion can last only so long. These things often pass, but in this case, it seems to have taken deep root.

Plexi -- Indeed, and I have enjoyed it. That said, I love women everywhere, nearly of all races and all nations. Right now I have particular fondness for Native American, Italian, and German women.

Yes, I am both very busy at work and home, yet somewhat lonely during the week as, you see, my daughter is going to a better school (a sacrifice I choose) and my wife must be with her as she is still too young to be living alone, but it is 50 miles from home, and during the week I am alone, so this Stones stuff and Plexi-obession helps take some of that away, AND it is just plain zany fun to me.


I do not like being thought for. I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself. No person knows my motives and my thoughts but me.

Plexi -- Regardless, I am glad I have agitated u nonetheless!

I never thought that anyone on a Rolling Stones message board would have to defend their motives for liking them. It all seems a bit silly.

Plexi -- Yes, and havent I walked into a bit of a lion’s den by daring to suggest on a Rolling Stones fan club board, no less, that a lot of us are obsessed and that for some anyway, it is akin to worship ... o fck that, need to smash my backpedaling -- DO WORSHIP THE STONES


Sweet neo con:

I'm sure Tim/Plexi is happy to know this fact.


Plexi -- I can fight him to the death, it is just a question of how long I decide to, but if I decide to, he will end up never seeing the end of it and perhaps wishing he had never lived!!!


GNAT!!! :

I have out lasted far tougher than him.

Plexi -- Oh really, try me, bud.


Stonesrule:

Gnat, you are most enjoyable.

Plexi -- And u might be too, honey, but u will not allow me to communicate with u.


GNAT!!! :
Lots of people don't agree, but thanks.

Plexi -- Who doesn’t agree – I defend your right to irritate anybody and kick their ass!!


GNAT!!! :

Have I ever given you hell before? I don't remember.

Plexi -- Speaking of me or stonesrule?


Cc:

a better question is, how do the Stones relate to celebrity culture. I would say only tangentially. The reason most of us are here, I believe, is because of the Stones' music.

Plexi -- At least in the beginning, yes.

The group was central to, and benefited massively from, the explosion in media and youth markets in the late 20th century,

Plexi -- Indeed

but they are fundamentally musicians who were not "celebrities" to begin. One can listen to the Stones' records without being interested in the group's actual lifestyle, though the songs present an imaginary lifestyle that is part of the appeal.

Plexi -- Yes, of course. Now we are getting somewhere. But also, so what if they were not celebrities to begin with -- whether by their choice or the choice of the masses, or both, they NOW ARE CELEBRITIES in point of fact!!

Some people might be drawn to the band by their celebrity, but there would be few reasons to focus on the Stones in particular for this cause.

Plexi -- Really? I think for some, this is the case.

those really interested in tangential aspects of the band like their romantic affairs,

Plexi -- but lots are, just witness the number of such threads on these boards


or who need to craft an internet identity by deciding to focus on pieces of their stage, could probably be more satisfied with other, purer celebrities.

Plexi -- Ooooh, touche!! Indeed I have crafted at least an IORR/StonesTreff/Shidoobee identity, and I would suggest that indeed this has come about.

Having said that, I am definitely into the Stones for lots of reasons – love of the music, rebellion which I identify with, more.


The Greek:

T&A,and Gazza ,the two of you are the VOICE of REASON .thank you for setting the record correctly in regards to MOZART and WAGNER.please their works have truly stood the test of time .Mozart was rocking out back three hundred years ago and Wagner over a hundred years ago . so history will determine where the stones rank with the CLASSICS


Wagner was anti-Jewish, and a favourite of ze Fuhrer.


Stonesrule:

Well I'm here to speak about the mindboggling parallel to,can you believe, Michaelangelo.

Plexi -- Don’t know, only history can judge, but I like the notion.



I will close by quoting a couple of things I said to IORR members in e mails:

I do believe that there is a ridiculous culture of celebrity that exists in the world which includes the Stones.

Not that this is the only force that encourages the frenzy over the band, but it certainly is one of them.

I cannot believe that some do not admit that this exists. Some folks are indeed in denial.

They doth protest too much, methinks.



Plexi