The Stones did not become a Vegas act in the nineties. In this decade they played some of their best shos ever, GS is wonderful as were all 95 clubshows. The hornsection consists of very good musicians, the back up singers are very good as well.

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windmelody
The Stones did not become a Vegas act in the nineties.

good point. 1989 was in the eighties, last i checked.

LE TOP ! .

they have been a vegas act since 89, minus a few magical moments such as club shows and some arena and stadium highlights

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Mathijs

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TotalBB
I was just watching the Stripped DVD and it struck me how great this version of Gimme Shelter is. It's a bit slower than usual, Ron and Keith are on fire and the band as a whole sounds extremely tight.

If there are any better live versions, I sure like to hear them.

Then just listen to all '72, '73 and '75 versions.

Mathijs

Mathijs,including that one ?





LA,june 11th 1975

This whole thing about them being a Vegas act is ridiculous. I mean come on, they played with a augmented band since the 70's, horn section, Hopkins, Preston, Ollie Brown, et. al. There have been some incredible moments in the 90's, and 2000's...like I said Live Licks show in Singapore was phenomenal. To me they, Mick in particular, loves that big wall of sound they had on Exile with the backing singers, horns, keyboards, and he likes to bring that sound out live. No need to say one is better than the other, all their different touring incarnations have their pluses.
Anyhow, the version of GS for Voodoo Lounge/Stripped is fantastic and they really nail it with a lot of passion and it was great seeing Jagger sing it with Lisa and her part morphs Marry Clayton to the tee! Great stuff!

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Mathijs

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TotalBB
I was just watching the Stripped DVD and it struck me how great this version of Gimme Shelter is. It's a bit slower than usual, Ron and Keith are on fire and the band as a whole sounds extremely tight.

If there are any better live versions, I sure like to hear them.

Then just listen to all '72, '73 and '75 versions.

Mathijs

Thanks for clearing it up for us simpletons, M.

"No Anchovies, Please"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-01-25 17:00 by Elmo Lewis.

72 and 73 yes, 75 is the worst gimme shelter of all the tours IMO

One of my remaining Taylor fantasies includes a re-arrangement of this song from the well-known '72-'73 versions to one that is slower in tempo and includes that eerie guitar line that Keith plays, perhaps with a slow intro and fade-out on that line. It's a song that can lend itself to some musical drama. I love the Taylor versions, but that has been done.

I think Gimme Shelter from the Paradiso is the best live version ever

I think it all comes down to what the individual is looking for. For me the area the Stones most excelled in at their peak, and perhaps the most renowned aspect of their sound is very much a raw vitality and a sense of abandonment which is pretty much the antithesis to the way they have played the last 20 years,hence the much used Las Vegas stones label.I can apprecite shortfatfanny's point concerning the 75 performance - it's certainly not the Stones best performance but the style is still very much my preferred way of hearing the stones. I haven't always enjoyed every stones tour pre 1989 for sure, but there was always a sense of growth, or at the very least change which i always found fascinating. The core of the argument isn't so much the use of backing musicians because as has been pointed out they have been used far longer than in the modern era stones, but it's more the change in the framework of the stones sound which their contribution has afforded them post 1989 - the very core in the dynamics of their sound has changed. As for whether i like the 95 Gimmie Shelter version - i do very much because the stones sound collectively committed to what they are trying to achieve, which has become an increasingly rare occurance in more recent years. However, it's a pretty safe performance in many ways - and rather conservative too - which can't also be said of the 75 version.

Edward Twining - I will agree with you overall. However, that one version of GS in 95' just has something for me. The only problem with the 75-77 Stones to me is Jagger's vocals I can not deal with him at the time but overall the 62-86 Stones are far better than 89-09.

i remember hearing the '95 version for the first time and thinking it was the best i had ever heard hands down, no contest....i listened to it many times over the years and compared it to 72,73,75,89-90...etc but i always come back to that one version....there is just SOMETHING about it....the guitars are incredible and i suppose all the planets were aligned for that few minutes.....whenever i hear it i'vce got to have a mickeys immediatly!!!!!!! har har

STONES JAM!! MICKEYS RULES!!! (burp) NADER IN 2016!!!!! GO GIANTS!!

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Mathijs

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TotalBB
I was just watching the Stripped DVD and it struck me how great this version of Gimme Shelter is. It's a bit slower than usual, Ron and Keith are on fire and the band as a whole sounds extremely tight.

If there are any better live versions, I sure like to hear them.

Then just listen to all '72, '73 and '75 versions.

Mathijs

I´d like to know your opinion concerning that LA 75 version I posted above,Mathijs.

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shortfatfanny

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Mathijs

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TotalBB
I was just watching the Stripped DVD and it struck me how great this version of Gimme Shelter is. It's a bit slower than usual, Ron and Keith are on fire and the band as a whole sounds extremely tight.

If there are any better live versions, I sure like to hear them.

Then just listen to all '72, '73 and '75 versions.

Mathijs

I´d like to know your opinion concerning that LA 75 version I posted above,Mathijs.

Gimme Shelter of 1975 is one of the absolute highlights of Rolling Stones' live career - absolutely stunning take on it! Some people don't see it though
The clip shortfatfanny posted a link to is one of the least good versions of that tour though....even the most terrific tours have their "off-nights". Besides...that SBD recording really sucks....no life in that recording; the audience tape has a lot better atmosphere for that concert.
Listen to Seattle 75, FOrt Collins 75, Buffalo 75, MSG 06/27/75 etc etc for 10 stars performances.
That being said....the versions from 1969-1973 are top-notch as well

Gimme Shelter of Paradiso 1995 is nice, but I find Shine A Light from Brixton 95 to be a much better performance....also because of the absence of Lisa Fisher.

Yeah,Erik, but we were talkin about Gimme Shelter here.
Of course there have been great versions of other songs at those 95 club gigs!
Shina a light one of them (and from Paradiso too!).
But lots of others as well like the Blues numbers,Jump on top,Paris Rambler, etc,etc.

I'd love to hear them all in the great quality of those 94/95 B-sides like Black Limo, Live with me, Like a RS and GS!

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CousinC
Yeah,Erik, but we were talkin about Gimme Shelter here.

Well, yes, Cousin - we're talking about Gimme Shelter - but it was just my way of putting it nicely that I don't think the vocals of Lisa Fisher fits in
I'm sure her voice is great for doing whatever she does - but whatever she does shouldn't be done in Gimme Shelter - or other Rolling Stones songs....well - here and there she fits in - she'd make a great addition to Harlem Shuffle for instance

Mentioned Shine A Light of Brixton, because I think Ronnie Wood does a real great solo there...without any interferance - and it's an appropriate comparision to Gimme Shelter of Paradiso



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-01-26 03:07 by Erik_Snow.

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Edward Twining
I think it all comes down to what the individual is looking for. For me the area the Stones most excelled in at their peak, and perhaps the most renowned aspect of their sound is very much a raw vitality and a sense of abandonment which is pretty much the antithesis to the way they have played the last 20 years,hence the much used Las Vegas stones label.I can apprecite shortfatfanny's point concerning the 75 performance - it's certainly not the Stones best performance but the style is still very much my preferred way of hearing the stones. I haven't always enjoyed every stones tour pre 1989 for sure, but there was always a sense of growth, or at the very least change which i always found fascinating. The core of the argument isn't so much the use of backing musicians because as has been pointed out they have been used far longer than in the modern era stones, but it's more the change in the framework of the stones sound which their contribution has afforded them post 1989 - the very core in the dynamics of their sound has changed. As for whether i like the 95 Gimmie Shelter version - i do very much because the stones sound collectively committed to what they are trying to achieve, which has become an increasingly rare occurance in more recent years. However, it's a pretty safe performance in many ways - and rather conservative too - which can't also be said of the 75 version.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything here. It is true that the role of back up musicians in 'Vegas era' is sometimes too much stressed (including myself); the question is more that their role in band's sound is just a symptom of deeper change in band's dynamics. Of how the band sees its music.

It is very interesting to compare these two versions of "Gimme Shelter" presented here - the 'worst' of the peak era and the 'best' of the Vegas era. It is the question like Edward here says "what the individiual is looking for"...

Personally I find the 1975 version more exciting - it's the raw vituality - the band just sounds so mean and dangerous. They are like shooting the audience with it. The way the nasty guitars drive the song forward and Jagger just riding with it with his natural drive and instinct. I really love the way he uses his voice - and the song, in fact - as an instrument, sometimes just giving brutal barking. It's just so... masterful. So raw, so sexy, so rock and roll. Flying like mad without parachutes, or something like that,

1995 is a marvellous performance, but despite of its ear-pleasing majesticity - or because of it - it is so safe and sure, so Vegas-like. Whereas in '75 Jagger just used the song as a vehicle of his expression, now he just presents it as close as he can to the original. And does it very well, indeed. It is a very good Mick Jagger imitation he does there. Lisa is great - and hot - but she is just trying mime the original as well. But the effect of the magical original can never be repeated - and I don't know if I really am expecting to hear the band to play the songs as they did them in studio. It is the charm of the 'old' Stones that they always treated the songs different way when they brought them to stage. And the songs kept evolving. That is not allowed under the Vegas-idealogy. They don't breath the songs anymore, but have a certain distance to them. Conservative-like they almost seem to respect the songs in their original forms - or are too frightened to really let them evolve again - namely, that is always a hazard business.

(I also seem back up the claim of Mathijs here)

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-01-26 03:58 by Doxa.

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TotalBB
I was just watching the Stripped DVD and it struck me how great this version of Gimme Shelter is. It's a bit slower than usual, Ron and Keith are on fire and the band as a whole sounds extremely tight.

If there are any better live versions, I sure like to hear them.

Its certainly one of the better ones, but I really love the version from Tokyo 26.2.90

Doxa and Edward, frickin amazing posts you wrote, and I can totally agree with and see your points! I guess then I should amend my opinion and say I like all the versions but it will depend on my mood and need at the time that will dictate which one I choose to listen to. Again it is hard for me to go into best version debate, when I like most every version. Thanks for some insightful analysis!

I dig especially four GS versions:

1 London, Sept. 8 (or 9?), 1973 - the one on Brussels Affair

2 Philadelphia or Fort Worth, 1972 - the one on Philadelphia Special

3 The one you mention - Amsterdam, 1995

4 The Winos, Boston, 1993

Usually, 1 was my favorite. But I tend to loose concentration when I listen to it. 2 keeps my attention more, so perhaps that is my favorite now. Anyway, here's 4:






Here's one I haven't heard before - The Winos, Chicago, 1993:






This 999, also from Chicago 1993, is great:







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-01-26 05:19 by Ringo.

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Erik_Snow

Well, yes, Cousin - we're talking about Gimme Shelter - but it was just my way of putting it nicely that I don't think the vocals of Lisa Fisher fits in
I'm sure her voice is great for doing whatever she does - but whatever she does shouldn't be done in Gimme Shelter - or other Rolling Stones songs....well - here and there she fits in - she'd make a great addition to Harlem Shuffle for instance

Lisa (and Lisa's interchange with Mick) is the main reason I like the GS Paradiso so much. Strange how tastes differ!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-01-26 05:17 by Ringo.

I also think one could argue that the Stones conservatism isn't just exclusive to themselves either, because popular music generally has become much more corporate and safe, so the stones may merely be reflecting the present time as much as reflecting their own dwindling personal capacities to perform. However bad, or at least unfocused some fans may find their 75-77 live performances, there was a feeling of authenticity about what they were achieving, even if it may have been their personal habits (drugs etc.) that may have been influencing their music as much as their musical aspiration itself, That did however foster a feeling of spontaneity and danger. In broad terms once the marketing, big business and careful packaging took hold (mid 80s) much of popular music's creativity was sapped (apart from maybe a little on the fringes). The Stones will certainly never release a single with the inventiveness of 'Emotional Rescue' again, it'll never happen - 'Emotional Rescue', 'Mixed Emotions', 'Streets Of Love' - i know which i'd choose!

I´m not refering at all to the 75-77 era as such when I think that this special
GS version here is one of their lowpoints.
I do like the roughness and the change in arrangements they had to do after MT left.

But GS here is a different case ( as is YCAGWYW )because it´s ruined from the very
beginning by Billy´s horrible synth,which is unbelievable bad.
Mick´s singing here isn´t even average I think so the whole song lost everything to me.

Sure we´ve got (thankfully) different tastes,but Mathijs was generalizing in a way
I don´t agree with.

Third - and last call for Mathijs.

To me the Paradiso 95 GS version is really one of the best!
And this although I'm more of a Taylor man! Love those great solos as on Washington 72!

But Paradiso is a keeper!
Btw. Another version that I like are some of the 73 renditions as on "Stars in the sky" Essen boot!

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shortfatfanny
But GS here is a different case ( as is YCAGWYW )because it´s ruined from the very beginning by Billy´s horrible synth,which is unbelievable bad.
Mick´s singing here isn´t even average I think so the whole song lost everything to me.

Yes I agree with the synth being awful - and the mix of LA 07/11 show (soundwise) makes it even worse. On other recordings from the tour - you can't hardly hear Billy Preston on Gimme Shelter.
....and yes, that exact "video concert" shows Jagger on an "off-night".
So in other words....it's not something to judge a whole tour over.

Erik,I don´t and cannot judge the performances of the whole tour,simply because I don´t know them.

But for any reasons GS was dropped from the 76 tour and I can hardly imagine
because it was done so good during 75.

Allright, you entitled to your opinion of course; but you should hear some more shows of 1975....you might be surprised....
Well....it's over to you and Mathijs....

Time for some of these old Stones DVDs to be resold in BluRay format!!!