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jlowe
Does the MickTaylor "settlement" mean he doesn't now get any further Stones royalties?
Would the Universal deal chane that?
I would assume Bill still does, also the Brian Jones Estate.
When the Beatles Anthology series came out, even Pete Best got some royalties!

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Greenblues

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skipstone
I still think Start Me Up is from the Black And Blue sessions. The sound of the drums and guitars is certainly not Some Girls/Emotional Rescue. It has the same sound as Slave and Worried About You to it.

They recorded the first versions of Start Up during the B&B sessions ["Never Stop"] and then tried it again during the Some Girls/Emotinal Rescue period. Keith claims that this was the time when - among many Reggae-style takes - a "Rock"-version was recorded which they rediscovered later when browsing through piles of tapes, preparing Tattoo You. Don't know if they re-recorded the track in 1980 or if they were just doing overdubs, though.

I agree that SMU sounds different from your typical Some Girls track. But this applies to most tracks on Tattoo You. Maybe the overdubbing, remixing and re-recording did do something here.

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Rocky Dijon
First off, a quick look at Rolling Stone Magazine or Creem from 1981 (not to mention Bill German's Beggars Banquet fanzine) makes it clear the Stones were not hiding the fact that they had overdubbed and remixed a slew of unfinished outtakes. One of Jagger's remarks at the time (I believe in Creem) was that his attitude was any ex-bandmembers or session musicians were paid at the time and he couldn't be bothered to put together the complete list of who did what so he left the credits off rather than risking missing someone. Taylor's $150K settlement also included a guest spot in Kansas City. Wayne Perkins subsequently sued and also settled out of court over "Worried About You."

Gary Lyons handled two mixes only, but since he never worked on GOATS HEAD SOUP, BLACK AND BLUE, SOME GIRLS, or EMOTIONAL RESCUE its impossible to guess which two tracks are his. Jagger's claims that he singlehandedly brought the LP together with help from Chris Kimsey and Bob Clearmountain is probably a bit disingenuous. Mick and Keith first gathered at Island Records in London to listen to SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE outtakes in September 1980. The band did some overdubbing and remixing in Paris and New York in October and November. While Mick was busy shooting FITZCARRALDO in Peru, Keith was at Compass Point recording guitar and bass overdubs (as well as handclaps and backing vocals) for many of the songs in early 1981. Mick and Keith then worked together (reportedly with much disharmony) at Atlantic Records in New York between March and June of 1981 to finish up the album. It is fair to say that Woody and Bill were largely absent (Woody was out in LA working on his "1,2,3,4" LP as well as doing session work for Ringo and Dylan while Bill was scoring the film GREEN ICE and starting work on a solo LP), but Mick and Keith added a great deal of lyrics, vocals, instrumental overdubs (bringing in the likes of Sonny Rollins) to finish up the album. This is not METAMORPHOSIS VOLUME TWO by a longshot. Yes, Mr. Taylor's playing is there on both tracks as clear as Wayne Perkins' solo on "Worried About You," but everything else around the tracks was new.

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Rocky Dijon
Yes, Mr. Taylor's playing is there on both tracks as clear as Wayne Perkins' solo on "Worried About You," but everything else around the tracks was new.

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Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon
Yes, Mr. Taylor's playing is there on both tracks as clear as Wayne Perkins' solo on "Worried About You," but everything else around the tracks was new.

That's not true of course, Tops and WOAF were recorded in late '72, and most of the backing track has been kept the same. The main overdubs are vocals and sax. The same goes for Worried.

Mathijs

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Loudei
Mathijs where does it say that WOAF was first done in 72?

from the Rolling Stone interview "Jagger Remembers" in 1995/Jagger Wenner:


And then comes "Tattoo You."

Yeah, that's an old record. It's all a lot of old tracks that I dug out. And it was very strange circumstances. [Producer] Chris Kimsey and I went through all the tracks from those two previous records. It wasn't all outtakes; some of it was old songs. And then I went back and found previous ones like "Waiting on a Friend," from Goats Head Soup. They're all from different periods. Then I had to write lyrics and melodies. A lot of them didn't have anything, which is why they weren't used at the time -- because they weren't complete. They were just bits, or they were from early takes. And then I put them all together in an incredibly cheap fashion. I recorded in this place in Paris in the middle of the winter. And then I recorded some of it in a broom cupboard, literally, where we did the vocals. The rest of the band were hardly involved. And then I took it to [producer] Bob Clearmountain, who did this great job of mixing so that it doesn't sound like it's from different periods.

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Mathijs

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Greenblues

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skipstone
I still think Start Me Up is from the Black And Blue sessions. The sound of the drums and guitars is certainly not Some Girls/Emotional Rescue. It has the same sound as Slave and Worried About You to it.

They recorded the first versions of Start Up during the B&B sessions ["Never Stop"] and then tried it again during the Some Girls/Emotinal Rescue period. Keith claims that this was the time when - among many Reggae-style takes - a "Rock"-version was recorded which they rediscovered later when browsing through piles of tapes, preparing Tattoo You. Don't know if they re-recorded the track in 1980 or if they were just doing overdubs, though.

I agree that SMU sounds different from your typical Some Girls track. But this applies to most tracks on Tattoo You. Maybe the overdubbing, remixing and re-recording did do something here.

But we know for sure that SMU is a '77 Pathe Marconi outtake. According to Chris Kimsey it was a spontaneous jam of which they ended up doing 30-odd takes. Kimsey then selected the take in '80 to which overdubs where done. All versions we have available (a dozen or so) are all from '77 to the overdub sessions in '81, and not one is earlier.

The sound of SMU is typical of the '77 sessions, mainly in Charlies drums and Bill's bass. The drums are not the dark blue Gretsch set he played from '72 to '76, but his new maple Gretsch drums. You can hear this in the snare mostly, but he also changed his cymbals: he started using the China Cymbal in '77, and not before.

Bill's bass is the short-scale Travis Bean TB2000 bass, it's a very distinct sound, and it's all over the '77 to '83 recordings. He got it in '77, while he played the Ampeg London bass in '75 and '76, and later on the '78 tour. This bass has a much softer sound, more wooly.

Mathijs

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Rocky Dijon
Mathijs, I regret disagreeing with anyone whose knowledge I respect so much, but I am not convinced that because the bootlegged outtakes claim the source for the backing tracks was 1972 or 1975, that they are not actually redone from scratch in 1979 or later. Neither Tops or Waiting "For" a Friend sound like other GOATS HEAD SOUP sessions to my ears (no, I'm not a musician) and Worried About You (first bootlegged in 1980 as Sometimes I Wonder Why on GRAVESTONES) sounds far more developed than the El Mocambo performance of the song to make me believe the backing track is the same. I think it more likely that Woody's unavailability and possibly the belief he couldn't match or better Wayne Perkin's 1975 recorded solo (which is nearly identical to Perkins' solo already released on Hand of Fate) led the Glimmers to leave that track untouched. In other words, I don't think TATTOO YOU's cohesiveness is just down to Kimsey and Clearmountain doing a suberb mixing job. I do believe many of the tracks were re-recorded. Bass lines are often lost as tracks are edited, the drumming does not sound inconsistent. Much of the percussion and keyboard overdubs and certainly Taylor and Perkins' guitar tracks are left intact from the original sessions, but nearly everything else was rebuilt and often rewritten. Again, my opinion. None of us were there, so its just speculation.