Since few days I am hardly examining all available versions of the legendary bootleg Liver Than You'll Never Be and I found few mysteries I'd like to ask an experts.

The original single bootleg LP comes from the second show, and all the LP reissues followed. The few first early 90s CD reissues are also came out from the second show, anf this was followed by the releasing of the first show, of which most notable title is Japanese 2CD set under the same name, issued by VGP.

My question is concetrated on differencies in quality between both of shows. While the first show seemed to be heavily noise reduced, the second is not only much more open to me, but also it sounded like it was taped from a quite different location (the first show souunds very bassy, just like it was recorded at the front of the stage, while the second show sounds like a typical audience recording).

We all know that Dub taped both shows (and many others) on his (back then) new Sennheiser shotgun mic plugged into a new reel to reel Uher deck. He got some friends, who mastered his tapes before its release (they used a controversal DBX, along with a classic dolby noise reduction system).

What I am concerned mostly at this point is fact that the first show sounds very but very compressed/noise reduced while the second (of which all early bootlegs are made) is almost free of these artifacts.

Any particular story on that subject? Does it possible that someone, who got original tapes from Dub itself (taper) put a further noise reduction on the first show's tape while he leaved the original quality on the second show's tape?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-05 10:49 by pkrl5758.

Quote
pkrl5758
Does it possible that someone, who got original tapes from Dub itself (taper) put a further noise reduction on the first show's tape while he leaved the original quality on the second show's tape?

Methinks both tapes followed different paths thru the years. The recording of the late [show] was immediately used (for the classic vinyl release) while the other one (deemed inferior) was shelved.
My guess is in the early 90's when some Dub/Ken tapes started to circulate someone thought it would be nice to cut the hiss of the recording and "improve" it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-05 20:09 by dcba.

From Wiki:


Live'r Than You'll Ever Be is a bootleg recording of the Rolling Stones' concert in Oakland, California, from 9 November 1969. It was one of the first live rock music bootlegs and was made notorious as a document of their 1969 tour of the United States. The popularity of the bootleg forced the Stones' label Decca Records to release the live album Get Yer Ya-Yas Out! The Rolling Stones in Concert in 1970.[1] Live'r is also one of the earliest commercial bootleg recordings in rock history, released in December 1969.


Live'r Than You'll Ever Be was recorded by "Dub" Taylor from Trademark of Quality using a Sennheiser shotgun microphone and a Uher "Report 4000" reel-to-reel tape recorder.[2] It was the first audience-recorded rock bootleg to be mastered and distributed;[3] some sources consider it the first live bootleg.[4] Though the sound is not nearly as clear as the official release of Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!, the recording is considered to be very strong for an audience recording, especially one of that era.[2] The Rolling Stones performed two sets that night and it is the second concert that was more heavily bootlegged and has sharper sound. Bootleggers had collaborated to record Stones shows across the United States, recording them on two-track Sony recorders for months prior to the release of the album.[5] At least one source claims that the recordings initially came from rock promoter Bill Graham's staff, who used the tapes for broadcast on KSAN and released their edit on Lurch Records in early 1970.[6]
The recording was made available about one month after the concert, and it became popular enough to spur speculation that the Stones released Ya-Ya's as a response to the bootleg[7] and the quality was high enough that it was rumoured that the band had even released the bootleg themselves.[8] The recording has been released through several bootleg labels, including the original release by Trademark of Quality (catalogue number 71002), Swingin' Pig, and Sister Morphine, usually documenting only the second set.[7] The Swingin' Pig release even replace performances of "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and "Under My Thumb" with different recordings from the band's 10 November performance in San Diego and their two-night stint in New York City[9] and attempted to enhance the sound quality by using de-clicking technology—both changes have drawn criticism in comparison to the original TMOQ release.[10]



[en.wikipedia.org]


_____________________________


I never sorted all of the 1969 Oakland and San Diego shows. I'm always looking for the best quality of Rolling Stones recordings.

I always thought the claim that the Rolling Stones released YaYas in response to Live'r was just a rumor. I've never seen an interview saying Live'r some how influenced the release of YaYas. Live'r was a big release and surely the Stones knew about it.





[www.rollingstonesnet.com]
The "LIVEr Than You'll Ever Be" Story



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-05 18:23 by exilestones.

There are too many Oakland 1969s!









[www.dbboots.com]

Many people reworked the famous concert recording....



1969.11.09 Oakland, 2nd Show (SBD-FM) [DSP Remix]
source: "FM Hangout"


Original Text File:


Maybe you've heard about "Wolfgang's Vault," the website playing music and selling memorabilia from Bill Graham's archives.
Here's a show they don't have, for whatever reason, but Bill Graham presented it on radio station KSAN back in late October, 1972.

It was recorded at the Oakland Coliseum, November 9, 1969, 2nd show. By coincidence, it's the exact same show which was recorded
from the audience by the guys who would go on to start the TMOQ record label. When their record came out, "Liver Than You'll Ever Be,"
people thought it was a soundboard recording because the quality was so good. Read the provided Rolling Stone Magazine review; they
speculated that it must have been recorded "by someone involved in setting up the Stones' own sound system."

They were wrong. "Liver Than" was just a great audience recording for the time. But maybe the reviewer somehow heard about this recording and got his stories mixed up.


Around October 1972, the Fillmore West was closing. KSAN played some material from the "Good Old Days" from Bill Graham; see provided flyer.
A friend of mine recorded this off the air. He told me people at the time were disappointed because a lot of the material played was actually
from records, not the concerts listed.

This is an incomplete soundboard recording, totally different from "Liver Than You'll Ever Be." When I got this on CDR back in 2003, it ran too fast.
My friend said that's the way they broadcast it. I matched the pitch to my low gen. of the audience recording. The complete lineage is something like this:

SB (1969) > FM (1972) > reel (1972) > CDR (2003) > PC editing (2003) > CDR (2003) > FLAC (2007)

I don't know how my friend transferred from his reel to CDR, but he has good equipment. I used EAC for extracting, Cool Edit Pro for editing, and Nero for burning in all cases.

I provided Vinyl Gang's artwork, which is based on a German LP from 1984, the first "release" of this material. This is better than that LP, I haven't heard VGP's version.

01. Sympathy For The Devil
02. Stray Cat Blues
03. Prodigal Son
04. You Gotta Move
05. Love In Vain
06. Live With Me
07. Gimme Shelter
08. Little Queenie
09. Satisfaction


---


Remix Notes:

The source was muddy with bass dominating the sound. I used iZotope Alloy to tame the bass and provide very light comprssion 9/100%.

the de-mudded waves were run through iZotope Ozone 5 Advanced, using every module in the arsenal to brighten the sound, spread the channels
(source was a fake-stereo with simple delay, I added multi-band dynamics), adding reverb with a plate modeled on the EMT 140 to thicken the dry mix
(and the source was VERY dry), harmonic excitation with oversample and a triode circuit to fatten the middle and a post-processing EQ that varied depending on the track.

I'm including a reference file from the source to compare what we started with to what we ended up with.


The remix isn't perfect, but it's clearer and possesses more depth than the source.


enjoy!

Laughingsam
19 Jan 2012





[wetransfer.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-05 19:05 by exilestones.

Thank you guys for such a great and very depth response.

I found the reason: I was reffering to the heavily noise reduced bootleg titled "Live'r Than You'll Ever Be De Luxe Edition: Oakland 1969", which has both shows plus a third disc with bonus content of radio broadcast and few other US 1969 shows' exceprts. All of them have been trated by some noise reduction, thus its quality is so poor.

The best choice for this boot, at least for now (and beside raw copies of Dub's tapes) are Vinyl Gang Production (1st show) and (again) Vinyl Gang Production and watchit's fan made compilation (2nd show).

Try to track down low generation non bootleg sources for both shows. Obviously TMOQ had no noise reduction technology in 1970 and the original "Liver Than" LP sounds great.

The LP is all from the 2nd show, except the first few seconds are from the first show: Mick says, "Can you hear that? Keith, play a bit." This was after the PA system blew out and Mick wasn't sure if things were working yet. TMOQ cleverly spliced it in at the start of the LP, and it sounds just as good as everything else.

The VGP release may be untampered with but I'm not familiar with it. Download every version you can and pick the one you like best. There is practically no hiss on the recordings and no need for noise reduction.

The VGP and low generation sources sounds equival, the VGP is just turned to full mono and the original tapes have been recorded on two track stereo Uher machine with just one shotgun mono mic put straight over the heads of the audience, positioned close to the stage, just at the front of the mixing desk so the only listenable difference is channel separation (low generations favors one channel a tiny bit better when compared to full track mono VGP version but that's all - if you gonna phase corrected it, then it plays exactly the same as VGP).

Thx for advice & help.

I remember hear Sister Morphine's Live'r 30th Anniversary Edition fixed the drop-outs.

There are too many reissues of this title by many people!

please put it om We transfer.
Great!

Will put them out tomorrow.

The link is valid for a week from now:

[wetransfer.com]

The folder features:

VGP Oakland 1st show
watchit's 2 source merge 2nd show
KSAN 1972 broadcast 2nd show
Master 2nd source

So far these are the best possible sources to find for both nights. The VGP is just as the original low gen tape except for the fact it was switched to full mono (the original tape is recorded in mono also but achieved as two-track stereo recording). No mastering is done as VGP sourced his title from low generation tape copied in the 1970s straight from Dub's master.

The rest of info is included in the folder.

Enjoy!

Quote
pkrl5758
The link is valid for a week from now:

[wetransfer.com]

The folder features:

VGP Oakland 1st show
watchit's 2 source merge 2nd show
KSAN 1972 broadcast 2nd show
Master 2nd source

Enjoy!

Thank you!

Chris from Belgium

Quote
pkrl5758
The link is valid for a week from now:

[wetransfer.com]

The folder features:

VGP Oakland 1st show
watchit's 2 source merge 2nd show
KSAN 1972 broadcast 2nd show
Master 2nd source

So far these are the best possible sources to find for both nights. The VGP is just as the original low gen tape except for the fact it was switched to full mono (the original tape is recorded in mono also but achieved as two-track stereo recording). No mastering is done as VGP sourced his title from low generation tape copied in the 1970s straight from Dub's master.

The rest of info is included in the folder.

Enjoy!

Thanks

RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd Have a Beer TB-38.rar


[wetransfer.com]



[bootlegpedia.com]


I've collected every Oakland 1969 show I could find. I hoping to find the best one(s). I don't have the talent to know the difference. Any comments as to which title is best is appreciated. I'll post some here for your comments.

RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd Live R Than You'll Ever Be 30th

The Rolling Stones ?– Live'r Than You'll Ever Be

Original Master Series ?– OMS 001, Turd On The Run ?– OMS 001










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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 07:25 by exilestones.

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The Rolling Stones ?– Revolution Sixtinine

Great Dane Records ?– GDR CD 9105



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 06:27 by exilestones.

Rolling Stones Live at Oakland Coliseum 1969 (2015 Deluxe Edition)


[www.youtube.com]



RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND Live'r Than You'll Ever Be (Deluxe) GR-14.rar


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______________________________________________________________________________

---

---

Apparently a Fan Made project...



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RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd Oakland w-Live With Me FN.rar

RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND Slowly Rockin' On TSP-45-001 EP.rar


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RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd show Remastered SBD-138-139.rar


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Any help in sorting all of these Live'r titles would be most appreciated.

Rolling Stones – Oakland Coliseum Arena 1969 FM-Sound Board (SODD-029 & bonus CD-R)

Oakland Coliseum, Oakland, CA – November 9th, 1969 2nd Show

Sympathy For The Devil, Stray Cat Blues, Prodigal Son, You Gotta Move, Love In Vain, Live With Me, Gimme Shelter, Little Queenie, Satisfaction. Bonus tracks: Brown Sugar (Shelley 11\18\71 Hot Rocks Version), Wild Horses (Shelley 11\18\71 Hot Rocks Version)

Bonus CDR Olympia Stadium, Detroit, MI – November 24th, 1969: Jumpin’ Jack Flash, Carol, Sympathy For The Devil, Stray Cat Blues, Love In Vain, Prodigal Son, You Gotta Move, Under My Thumb, Midnight Rambler, Live With Me, Little Queenie, Satisfaction, Honky Tonk Women, Street Fighting Man

Oakland Coliseum Arena 1969 FM-SB contains a fragmented soundboard recording of the famous November 9th late show in Oakland. An excellent quality audience recording of this show is the source for the famous Live’r Than You’ll Ever Be, but this comes from a recording that is thought to have been made by Bill Graham.

This tape was first booted on vinyl in Germany and is the source for the earliest CD release, Hangout (World Production Of Compact Music D 047-2). Oakland ’69 (Audifon AF 005) and Oakland Sixty-Nine (Vinyl Gang Product RS-692 VGP-003) are two more recent releases of this show. It is a clear and enjoyable, but is also very primitive sounding.

Further, there is a layer of hiss over the music which, if anyone attempted to remove, would completely ruin it. This raw recording was probably made only for Graham’s personal archives with no intention of radio broadcast or for use by London for Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out, the official live album souvenir of the 1969 tour.

It doesn’t contain the complete show because “Jumping Jack Flash,” “Carol,” “I’m Free,” “Under My Thumb,” “Midnight Rambler,” “Honky Tonk Women,” and “Street Fighting Man” are missing. There are cuts between each song, the very beginning of “You Gotta Move” is missing and the very end of “Satisfaction” is cut off. This release on SODD comes from the same source as the others and the sound quality is comparable. Thankfully they didn’t try to improve the tape with excessive remastering but instead chose to leave the tape alone.

Bill Graham himself broadcast this tape on KSAN in San Francisco on October 29th, 1972, the same month the late, great Tom Donohue became program director for this progressive station. The existence of this tape is as much a testimony to the Stones as it is to the glory days of free form radio in the late sixties to the late seventies.

Stations like KSAN in San Francisco and WNEW in New York were not beholden to the rigid programming of the AM top-40 format and the presentation of rock and roll was as much of an art form as the music itself. Hearing music, even from popular bands, out of the context of the proscribed hits was more common then than now.

Hearing a soundboard recording this raw sounding, and of a show that isn’t the best, is unheard of today. Although this is a classic concert and everyone should have a copy of the audience recording in the collection, this is still a good example of the Stones sounding very raw and tentative.

This is the band’s first tour of the U.S. in three years and their first with new guitarist Mick Taylor, and it sounds as if the band were still getting acquainted with one another. It is apparent on the first song on this release “Sympathy For The Devil.” Although this version is good it is far from the versions played on the east coast by the end of the tour. The acoustic set is very good though and it is nice to have a very clear recording of the Rev. Robert Wilkins classic “Prodigal Son.”

“You Gotta Move” hadn’t even been recorded yet and this is a stripped down, basic rendition. The studio version on Sticky Fingers and during the Tour Of The Americas is much better. The band seem to experience equipment problems half way through “Live With Me” when Jagger says repeatedly “I think we got a problem…I think we got a problem.” Jagger speaks about an echo on his voice before “Gimme Shelter.”

SODD include two bonus tracks. Both “Brown Sugar” and “Wild Horses” come from the initial pressing of Hot Rocks on November 18th, 1971. The copies can be identified by the word Shelley and the date 11-18-71 scratched into the trail off on the vinyl. (Shelley refers to the poet Percy B. Shelley whose poem “Adonis” Mick read as a eulogy for Brian Jones at the Hyde Park in July 1969).

These tracks have been included on various CD releases including Bright Lights Big City (VGP-307). “Brown Sugar” is much closer to the original demo heard in the hotel room sequence in the film Gimme Shelter but lacks the saxophone, and “Wild Horses” has more reverb on the vocals. There are two hundred copies of the bonus CDR with the audience recording from Detroit on November 24th, 1969. This tape appears on the CD release Live From Detroit 1969 (Minotauro Records 1405-A). It hasn’t been released many times so the bonus makes it worthwhile.

[www.collectorsmusicreviews.com]





RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd Oakland Coliseum Arena FM SODD-029.rar


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The Rolling Stones - Oakland Sixty Gold Remaster

Oakland Sixty-Nine Extended version (Gold Remastered)
Venue: Oakland, Coliseum 9 November 1969, 2nd show
and London, Marquee Club 26 March 1971.
Label: RS-692 / VGP-003 V2


[theultimatebootlegexperience7.blogspot.com]


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RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd Oakland Sixty-Nine VGP-003-V2.rar

RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd FM Hangout [DSP Remaster] FN

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RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd AF-005.rar

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The Rolling Stones: Oakland '69. (AUDIFON :: AF 005)
Recorded Live at Alameda County Coliseum, Oakland, California, USA - November 09, 1969 (2nd Show).
Excellent Soundboard Recording :: Bootleg Silver CD :: CBR 320 kbps & FLAC.
01. Sympathy For The Devil
02. Stray Cat Blues
03. Prodigal Son
04. You've Gotta Move
05. Love In Vain
06. Live With Me
07. Gimme Shelter
08. Little Queenie
09. (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
10. Little Queenie* (Keith Richards, Jerry Lee Lewis and Mick Fleetwood)
11. Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On* (Keith Richards, Jerry Lee Lewis and Mick Fleetwood)

Files: 11. :: Size: 102.25 MB (mp3) / 252 MB (flac).
Total Time: 00:42:57 hour/s.
*** Rolling Stones "Storm America" - US Tour 1969 ***

Personnel: Mick Jagger – lead vocals, harmonica :: Keith Richards – rhythm guitar :: Mick Taylor – lead guitar :: Bill Wyman – bass guitar :: Charlie Watts – drums and percussion.

Additional musicians: Ian Stewart – piano.

Notes: Bonus (Keith Richards, Jerry Lee Lewis and Mick Fleetwood) 10. Little Queenie* - 11. Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On* Venue: Los Angeles, California, USA - Recorded July 16, 1983, Broadcast September 25, 1983.
This one is the Audifon 1994 CD, from the rare German LP "oakland sixty-nine". The (incomplete) soundboard tape was recorded by Bill Graham's people, and broadcasted on ksan in 1972. Even if it is the primitive sounding, the sound is great.<-(Info taken from original info file).

This title incorporates the official 1969 Tour Program artwork into the cover design. Best sound of the Oakland 2nd soundboard sources.<-(Info taken from rollingstonesnet.com).
[vivalesbootlegs.blogspot.com]

Liver Than You’ll Ever Be Dog N Cat DAC-116




RS 1969 LIVE - 691109 OAKLAND 2nd Live'r Than You'll Ever Be Deluxe DAC-116.rar

[wetransfer.com]

DAC-116

The importance of The Rolling Stones Liver Than You’ll Ever Be cannot be over estimated. Great White Wonder cover the Bob Dylan basement tapes was the first commerically produced bootleg and is rightly priased for the industry it helped promote. The Dylan was produced out of an encounter, happenstance and need, but the Rolling Stones title was produced out of a deliberate act of producing a definitive live souvenir of the first Rolling Stones tour in three years.

And unlike the Dylan and others, this established a market for audience recording sourced bootlegs. The Dub taped used for the original Lurch and subsequently TMOQ releases remains one of the most clear, vivid and enjoyable documents from the tour.

Liver Than You’ll Ever Be, the new four disc title on Dog N Cat, is a collection with a newly surfaced audience tape of the November 9th late show. To celebrate this occasion it is packaged with material from the opening acts, the Bill Graham soundboard recording, and the famous TMOQ tape in one convenient package.

Seasoned Rolling Stones collectors may scoff at this release as a cynical attempt to get more money by packaging the new tape with the older. But for collectors who do not have copies of all the tapes DAC-116 is a very good sounding and packaged document.

DAC are self-consciously following the example of last year’s Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out 40th Anniversary edition which included multiple sources for those shows and included a disc devoted to the opening acts something which Mick Jagger originally envisioned for the project in 1970. Unlike the official product no DVD is included because no footage exists from the show.

continued: [www.collectorsmusicreviews.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 08:08 by exilestones.

More: [www.rollingstonesnet.com]

WOW ! Thank you 21x exilestones.
Now I can hear many hours this material.

Live’R Than You’ll Ever Be: COMPLETE VERSION [Tarantura 1CD]

[www.bigozine2.com]

Quote
Broesel2404
WOW ! Thank you 21x exilestones.
Now I can hear many hours this material.

I'll look forward to your comments!



Oakland - E Russell - Originally posted by Rockman