If a lack of mainstream hits hurts a legacy then everyone from Dylan to Macca to The Stones would have their legacy damaged. Their legacy is intact.

"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-28 00:54 by FrankM.

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FrankM
If a lack of mainstream hits hurts a legacy then everyone from Dylan to Macca to The Stones would have their legacy damaged. Their legacy is intact.

Dylan's last 3 albums were critical success, the last one reached #1 in U.S and every album sold better than the previous one. Also he won several Grammy's including album of the year in 1998.
Macca had a big comeback with the last 2 albums, since Driving Rain every album sold better than the previous one.

Every new album from the Stones has sold worse than the previous one since Steel Wheels, onwards.

The legacy of Dylan and Macca is more intact.

Ugh. Every Stones album has sold less and less. OUCH.

Time for another hits comp, something we all have, so 'they' can sell 'more'.

Yeah, forget selling something the hard core fans would love to have. They would make their money back and then some. They don't need to print up 10 million copies of a box set or whatever. Maybe a grand total of 2 million world wide. That's A LOT for a box set.

Nope. We need...ANOTHER HITS COMP!

The Stones could VERY EASILY sell a few million albums of new material. Just ask Bill and MT to come back.

just open the damn vaults and knock it off already

duck geese!!!!!!!!! duck geese??????????

... this is how I see it; if an album is good, people will like it. This will increase the odds of people buying it.

If an album is praised by only a small niche of hard-cores, apologizing for or ignoring its faults (lazy playing/singing/inferior songwriting), but bores the rest of people looking for something more interesting - the album will likely sell fewer copies than hoped for.

Look at U2's POP - it sold far below Achtung Baby because, well, the general opinion was that is was a disappointing effort - bland and forgettable. Three years later, they knock one out of the park with all That You Can't Leave behind.

The arguments of 'well the top 40 is full of boring stuff', or 'the general public's taste isn't up-to-par'... I don't really buy into that. Yes, pop music is loaded with tripe. But if a band like The Stones put out an album with unforgettable, great songs - I'm sure it would sell more untis than anything they've done since Dirty Work.

Opening the vaults would be great - I'd love some Taylor years stuff. How 'bout a DVD of Ladies & Gents all remastered? I'd take that over a recent live CD anyday. But what I really would lov e to see is one more album with some really, really good songs. A great production, mix, and set of arrangements is absolutely part of it. But good songs are the key for me.

[thepowergoats.com]

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georgelicks

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FrankM
If a lack of mainstream hits hurts a legacy then everyone from Dylan to Macca to The Stones would have their legacy damaged. Their legacy is intact.

Dylan's last 3 albums were critical success, the last one reached #1 in U.S and every album sold better than the previous one. Also he won several Grammy's including album of the year in 1998.
Macca had a big comeback with the last 2 albums, since Driving Rain every album sold better than the previous one.

Every new album from the Stones has sold worse than the previous one since Steel Wheels, onwards.

The legacy of Dylan and Macca is more intact.

You have a habit of cherry picking a few half assed statistics that suit your argument and ignoring everything else. Who cares if the last few albums of Dylan and Macca sold better than their previous albums? What does that really mean? The legacy of The Stones in in trouble because their album sales are declining album to album? This is normal and happens to almost every artist. The sales of Dylan and Macca right before the time frames you are talking about were so paltry they had nowhere to go but up. Conversely The Stones sold 5.5 million worldwide for VL so it is expected they would go down from that point. The important thing is they still outsell Macca and Dylan- that is if you think album sales are important and I'm assuming you do since it was the crux of your post. Their margin may be narrower these days but they still outsell the other two.

Didn't Magic sell about half as much as The Rising? Is the legacy of Springsteen less intact? Of course not. ABB and Magic still outsold any of the recent Dylan or Macca albums (worldwide anyway). By your faulty reasoning The Stones would have been in trouble in 1972 since Exile sold only a third of what Sticky sold. Nonsense.

And don't waste your breath talking about the Grammy awards. Men At Work has more or as many Grammy Awards as Led Zeppelin so how good of a measuring stick are the Grammys lol. Try to look at the big picture George instead of cherry picking a few stats here and there while ignoring worldwide sales, tours, billboard hits etc. etc..

The legacy of The Stones is intact whether or not the great Georgelicks believes it.

"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-01 21:16 by FrankM.

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FrankM
The legacy of The Stones is intact whether or not the great Georgelicks believes it.

Sorry Frank, but the legacy of Macca, Dylan, Bruce is more intact than the Stones. The Stones whored themselves with 20 years of Vegas Tours and irrelevant albums, in 1988-89 they were much more an influence for kids and young rock bands than today, and I don't write with any fact here, only common sense and my personal view of the band in the general people. You can say, "they sell a lot of tickets" but it's like going to a living museum, many people go there to see the dinosaur before it disappear.
Go to the street and ask people what they think of Bruce or Dylan, then ask the same for the Stones, you don't want to know the answers that I get.

I tend to agree with that theory for the most part, although going to see the spectacle of mick jagger live cant be matched by those other bands even if theyre more recent music is better than the stones efforts of the past two decades,and thats what seperates the stones from those bands

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georgelicks

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FrankM
The legacy of The Stones is intact whether or not the great Georgelicks believes it.

Sorry Frank, but the legacy of Macca, Dylan, Bruce is more intact than the Stones. The Stones whored themselves with 20 years of Vegas Tours and irrelevant albums, in 1988-89 they were much more an influence for kids and young rock bands than today, and I don't write with any fact here, only common sense and my personal view of the band in the general people. You can say, "they sell a lot of tickets" but it's like going to a living museum, many people go there to see the dinosaur before it disappear.
Go to the street and ask people what they think of Bruce or Dylan, then ask the same for the Stones, you don't want to know the answers that I get.

Well sorry George but while you are entitled to your opinion you don't seem to be connected to reality and I don't care how many people on this board agree with you. Macca has much more of a "Vegas" persona than The Stones whether you agree with it or not and as far as irrelevant albums go that is a matter of opinion. What is so relevant about the recent Macca albums? Any big songs that have become part of pop culture? Anything rise to the top of the charts? No didn't think so.

They were more of an influence back in 88-89? No shit Sherlock. You think Dylan or Macca or Springsteen is as much of an influence today as they were twenty years ago? Well it doesn't show by the record sales. So I guess your point is that they are enough of an infuence on young people for them to follow in their footsteps but not enough of an influence for them to buy their albums? Nonsense.

I don't know who you are talking to on the street- maybe people as poorly connected to reality as you. Try to talk to more rational people who have some sense of reality lol.

Funny how you stumble(meaning me, not you) on a website at the right time. This guy has an opinion on The Stones.

[accelerateddecrepitude.blogspot.com]

Disgruntled Beatles fan he sounds like. Bitter that The Stones survived the sixties while The Beatles folded.

"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-02 22:46 by FrankM.

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iamthedj
I understand Jagger when he says things like he wants to look forward rather than haul through their past. However with eight year gaps between albums I suspect that he is the least forward looking artist in pop history.

The paradox is however that as much as Jagger trumpets this philosophy (one which is in many ways admirable) when it comes to choosing what songs to perform in concert he's the most nostalgia-driven artist imaginable.

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Bingo
Funny how you stumble(meaning me, not you) on a website at the right time. This guy has an opinion on The Stones.

[accelerateddecrepitude.blogspot.com]

This guy is an idiot. Seriously. Laughable, really, that this "mild mannered librarian" has the gall to criticize MJ's song writing.

But I still want a complete live show dvd from 1969 !!

Yeah, it's funny...at least he gives credit to the other Stones.

Hey, Georgelicks thinks She Saw Me Coming sucks and puts Streets Of Shit above it even! What does he know? I guess Streets Of Love is more RELEVANT and has a legacy that is intact amongst the history of the album's (decline) in sales and rankings among the Stones' best albums.

What a weird way to look at things. Less of an impact than the Steel Wheels era? Not that setting a new record for a tour equates to being more or less relevant to anyone else but....didn't more people go see the Stones on A Bigger Bang than any previous Stones tour (or a tour by, I dunno, any other band or maybe even solo artist)? I think that means something there.

Dinosaurs in a museum? Are you nuts?

Go away.

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skipstone
Hey, Georgelicks thinks She Saw Me Coming sucks and puts Streets Of Shit above it even! What does he know? I guess Streets Of Love is more RELEVANT and has a legacy that is intact amongst the history of the album's (decline) in sales and rankings among the Stones' best albums.

What a weird way to look at things. Less of an impact than the Steel Wheels era? Not that setting a new record for a tour equates to being more or less relevant to anyone else but....didn't more people go see the Stones on A Bigger Bang than any previous Stones tour (or a tour by, I dunno, any other band or maybe even solo artist)? I think that means something there.

Dinosaurs in a museum? Are you nuts?

Go away.

You are in no position to tell anybody to go away, skipstone. Your opinion is not the universal truth, its just an opinion, just like the one from Georgelicks.

And I agree with Georgelicks. She Saw Me Coming is just a filler on the album, a song that starts promising, but does not go anywhere. Forgettable mediocre stuff, not even considered good enough by the band to play it live (although rehearsed a couple of times), they obviously noticed that this song is way below par. Whereas Streets Of Love being much better can be discussed but at least they turned it into a live highlight and thats what counts in terms of 'relevance'.

And yes, the Steel Wheels era Stones were more relevant. Todays incarnation is very much like dinosaurs in a museum and one of the reasons is that their stage act did not really develop since Steel Wheels, the show is still very much based on a concept developed for the Steel Wheels tour. During a show last year, one fan told me that "going to a Stones concert nowadays is very much like going to a musical like Cats or what else. You can expect a good or even great show, but no real musical highlights or real rock and roll excitement!"

Of course, opinions are like a..holes, but I think there is some truth in this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-03 20:30 by alimente.

>>You are in no position to tell anybody to go away, skipstone. Your opinion is not the universal truth, its just an opinion, just like the one from Georgelicks.<<

You said it, Alimente
I do like She Saw Me Coming tho'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-03 21:59 by Erik_Snow.

In my opinion She Saw Me Coming is one of the worst songs on the new album. Sounds like filler to me, maybe a good idea but nothing more. Not a huge fan of Streets of Love but there certain people who love it.

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Erik_Snow
I do like She Saw Me Coming tho'

sometimes we agree, and sometimes we disagree, Erik, but thats life!

in fact I did like She Saw Me Coming too when ABB was released but it quickly wore off.

Well..



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2008-03-04 00:45 by Erik_Snow.

Ha ha!

I thought Steel Wheels was more of a by-the-numbers review of their hits.

Voodoo and Bridges were probably their best tours as far as getting away from so many hits. And actually playing tracks off the new record.

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iamthedj
I understand Jagger when he says things like he wants to look forward rather than haul through their past. However with eight year gaps between albums I suspect that he is the least forward looking artist in pop history.

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Gazza
The paradox is however that as much as Jagger trumpets this philosophy (one which is in many ways admirable) when it comes to choosing what songs to perform in concert he's the most nostalgia-driven artist imaginable.

It's interesting that, isn't it ? He does not seem to mind singing all the hits that bring back memories of the Stones at their artistic peak as long as the fans keep putting their money into the jukebox. They only get to hear a watered down version nowadays but those that didn't attend the concerts in the 70s (most of the crowd) wouldn't notice the difference anyway, so it doesn't matter. And you can do a lot with some extra posing and light effects and such to keep the people entertained...