I admit I was not aware Charlie had a "problem" back in the mid 80's. Guess the net makes it easier to keep up with news.

Does anyone know when and why Charlie slipped into his heroin and pills problem? I'm guessing but could he have had problems in his personal life? Was his wife getting tired of him going on the road? Did Mick or Keith give him a "pep" talk to clean up? I recall in an interview(not sure where I saw it, maybe youtube) Charlie stated he nearly lost everything.

Was Charlie's problem "covered up" by the alleged bad blood between Mick and Keith to give him time to work out his problem? Or could it be Mick and Keith thought Charlie might have decided at that time he'd never tour again to resolve any personal issues he was struggling to overcome?

How long did Charlie's drug days last?

Here is the interview with Charlie talking about his drug problems...

I'm sure Charlie's heroin/speed problems during the mid '80s (read Nick Kent's "Dark Stuff") probably fueled Mick's reluctance to tour, in fact he said it in at least one interview around '95...Ron's then-recent recent coke bout...No wonder he signed to try a solo career...Despite it all, and his appearance on the cover, Charlie kicks ass throughout 'Dirty Work'...

The 60 Minutes interview from the VL tour doesn't shed any light on the question. Charlie only states he had a drug problem, doesn't say when it began or how long it lasted. One can conclude it was over by 1988 since they toured in 1989 with Steel Wheels.

Charlie kicks ass throughout 'Dirty Work'...

YEAH he sure does...And what about his hot-rivet sluggin' on Bigger Bang...WHAM!!!





ROCKMAN

Charlie kicks ass all the time;everytime

Charlie speedballing? We are lucky to still have him around. That mix killed someone I know and it put an end to Brent Mydland from the Grateful Dead.

I completely agree Charlie did great on DW, Didn't Ronnie play drums on 2 cuts from that album?

Random thoughts...

John Belushi was another casualty of the speedball.
Charlie looked like a heroin addict ever since the mid '60's.
Charlie's drumming on Dance Little Sister is perfect.
That cover of Dirty Work is awfully bright!
Is it true Charlie doesn't drive a car?
Thank God Charlie is still here with us.

>Guess the net makes it easier to keep up with news.

He talked about it extensively in "Q" magazine way back when ('90 or so). I guess UK mags didn't circulate as much in the US back then.

Glam Descendant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He talked about it extensively in "Q" magazine way
> back when ('90 or so). I guess UK mags didn't
> circulate as much in the US back then.

Precisely, no UK mags in the States back then.

>> Was Charlie's problem "covered up" by the alleged bad blood <<

i think there was genuine animosity over that solo deal, but i've also suspected that
the Glimmer Twins exaggerated it in public as a distraction to shelter Charlie.
kinda like in the spring of 2004 when we were suddenly inundated with gossip
about Ronnie carrying on in ridiculous ways in public, and then later it emerged
that Charlie had been in treatment for cancer.

and yes it's true that Charlie's never learned to drive,
although he owns some antique cars that he likes to sit in.

i love the Rolling Stones

>Precisely, no UK mags in the States back then

Well that's a slight exaggeration, as I bought it new off the stand (in Manhattan).

The sleeve reminds me of some Swedish "dansband" on heroin and coke.

If Charlie doesn't drive, then what was that story about him being in a car crash in France in June of 2004? that would have killed him if not for the seat belt?

Someone else driving or is this a bogus story? If it is true, I would like some more details or a link to an article or something about it. Thanks.


Plexi

someone else was driving, and i don't think there were many articles -
it was kept pretty quiet, because that's what Charlie wanted.

ahh here's one: [people.monstersandcritics.com]
it was in 05, not 04, but anyway ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-17 15:26 by with sssoul.

I met Charlie outside of a liquor store in Hollywood in the mid-80s. As I recall, it was the day of a solo performance . . . at the Hollywood Bowl, perhaps?

That was how I always remembered the encounter. But did Charlie's jazz group ever play the Bowl? During the annual Playboy Jazz Festival, maybe?

Anyhow, I did get Charlie's autograph, and no, he did not appear to be driving. Nor did I see a pony hitched to a post outside of the store. Charlie was gracious toward me.

Monkeylad Wrote:
---
> Anyhow, I did get Charlie's autograph, and no, he
> did not appear to be driving. Nor did I see a pony
> hitched to a post outside of the store. Charlie
> was gracious toward me.


:0D

"Charlie's good tonight, inne?" "What do you mean, scumbag, Charlie's good every night" ;-)

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no evidence Charlie was "speedballin". In the 60 Minutes interview (referenced above in this thread) Charlie only admits to taking heroin and amphetamine and washing it down with liquor. As Ed Bradley said to him "it was up and down". Charlies doesn't say if he was shooting or snorting heroin.

Glam Descendant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------
> Well that's a slight exaggeration, as I bought it
> new off the stand (in Manhattan).

In this part of the USA (North Carolina) Q mag wasn't available. I have no doubt it was available in NYC or LA for that matter.

I have always been a fan of Charlie, thought he was really the coolest of them all, even edited a Stones fanzine with his name in it.

However I remember the day when he appeared on the cover of jazz magazine "Downbeat" in about 1988 - cool Charlie with very very loooong uncool and ugly yellow fingernails... I didn't know about him doing heroin at the time. I just thought, what's wrong with that guy? OK, unlike Keith Richards he at least brushed his teeth, so there was no Swiss dentist needed to fix his snaffle bit. And he got away from it without sinking into alcoholism.

One more of the reasons for doing sugar was maybe he was touring with his Charlie Watts Orchestra - big band jazz. And heroin has always been a part of the jazz scene, long before rock'n'roll even existed. Maybe this also played a role in Charlie's decision to try the stuff, jazz aficionado as he is.

Only I'd add here, since there are a handful of pure youngsters
on board, is: "Do not try this at home."

Only reason Keef & (tryin to figure out somebody else.. Well..
a couple of more guys MAYBE) others survived si the netorwk & all the money.
They could always get their best stuff & one of the most efficient machinery
held them under their arms & kicked them upwwards when it was needed.

Mick's patience with Keef must have been endless. That's Love.

F.U.C. the Captain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And heroin has always been a part
> of the jazz scene


I suppose you need to take something to play/listen to jazz!

Glam Descendant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> He talked about it extensively in "Q" magazine way
> back when ('90 or so). I guess UK mags didn't
> circulate as much in the US back then.


Might be wrong but I think it was in 1994 when Voodoo lounge came out (they did separate interview with the whole band). It was the first time he'd ever publicly admitted a past problem (the interviewer basically 'confronted' him saying he'd been seen coming out of a rehab clinic in the mid 80s)

When DW came out and Mick made that statement that he didnt want to tour because "some of the band werent in a fit enough state to cross the Champs Elysees let alone go on the road", not too many people guessed that it would have been Charlie he was referring to.

Quite by chance, at this moment the song on my headphones is The Clash's "Charlie dont Surf"......

timbernardis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Charlie doesn't drive, then what was that story
> about him being in a car crash in France in June
> of 2004? that would have killed him if not for the
> seat belt?

maybe his lack of ability to drive was the reason why he crashed ...anyway, no hes never learned to drive (neither 'technically' has Keith, according to Tony Sanchez anyway...)


Anyway, charlie's mid 80s habits are a good excuse to dig out this classic Letterman chat with Bill Wyman from 1985. Hindsight explains a lot (thanks to www.timeisonourside.com for the transcript)


BW : We were in Toronto recording once and - Charlie Watts never sleeps.

DL : NEVER sleeps?

BW : No. He went for a walk in the town, you know, he was looking for something to eat. So he went to this little Indian restaurant he found. But before that, he looked around and found a shop, a little tailor shop. And he found some trousers he wanted and they said, "They're a bit big". He buys them second-hand sometimes, you know, old ones from the '40s, you know?

DL : (sarcastically) Charlie's down on his luck, isn't he?

BW : Yeah (laughs). And... so they said, "Come back in a couple of hours, they'll be ready". So he went to this Indian restaurant, and he hadn't slept for about 4 days so he gets -

DL : (interrupts) FOUR days?!? (Audience laughs)

BW : Yeah... no, that's NORMAL.

DL : FOUR days and he says, "I feel like doing a little shopping"?

BW : Yeah. (Audience laughs).

DL : (sarcastically) Gosh, how could a thing like that happen? (Audience laughs)

BW : (Laughs) We don't have shops in England... Anyway... So he sits there and he falls asleep, you know, with all these Indian guys around him. And about 2 hours later, they're waking him up, you know? And he's surrounded by cops as well. And we're in Toronto, they're pretty heavy down there. And - so they're shaking him up, they say, "Who are you?" and he's got all that stubble on (his face) and everything, you know. "What are you doing?" And he says, "Well, where... where am I?" And they say, "Well, you're in Toronto." He says, "TORONTO? What am I doing in Toronto?" You know, and they think this guy's CRAZY. And he said, "Well, what time is it?" And they said, "It's a quarter to three in the afternoon". And he says, "Oh, great, my trousers are gonna be ready." (Audience laughs) You should have Charlie on the show.

DL : Yeah, but every time we call he's napping so - (Audience laughs).

Charlie is my darling.

Gazza...any idea when Charlie's drug problem started?

I'm guessing 1985, maybe that's the reason they didn't play Live Aid(again just a wild guess). In the 60 minutes interview Charlie says "it lasted a couple of years". I'm guessing he cleaned up sometime in 1988.

Many a thread on here states they wouldn't tour without Charlie, and rightfully so. I'm trying to read between the lines if the Stones "media machine" fabricated a rift between Mick and Keith to "shelter" Charlie's personal problem with drugs and alcohol.

I think it was around the mid 80's, yes, but he was cleaned up again by the time the band reconvened in 1989

the main reason they didnt play Live Aid was probably that Keith refused to...

and then he ended up going anyway....

>> We were in Toronto recording once and ... <<

if Bill's got the town & circumstances right, wouldn't that have to have happened in 1977?
when else (up to the time of that Letterman show) had the Stones been "recording in Toronto"?

ahem: i'm not suggesting that Charlie was messed up on drugs in 77 - more like Bill's got the town wrong
or that Charlie was simply high off life & people for four days. :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-17 19:27 by with sssoul.