I wonder how much Cohl's involvement with bankrolling and promoting The Police's 2007 Reunion tour has affected the delayed announcement of the Stones 2007 European tour?

The Police's tour is due to be announced at a press conference on Monday 12 February, with the tour dates on sale not too long after I imagine.

Cohl's business prowess and acumen for the Stones appears to be faltering. His appalling decision to books far too large venues on the last leg of the ABB tour, especially in the States and the now very late European tour announcement, brings his judgement into question. The European should have been announced in December or January, to catch the ticket buying public before the myriad other big players announced their Summer tours and put their tickets on sale.

Although a fair number of Stones fans exclusively concentrate their concert going around the Stones and attend multiple shows on the same tour, many like me also like other bands and wanna go see them in concert.

A suspect the proportion of casual Stones gig goers is higher then we think, the "just wanna go see a great outdoor concert in the Summer," contingent who was as soon go see U2 or Genesis, i.e. the people who NEED to hear the warhorses each tour.

The competition for people's money this Summer is gonna be high, with Genesis, The Who, The Police and other main draws charging high ticket prices is, I believe, gonna result in lower than desired Stones ticket sales by the time they put the tickets on sale.

Most of us only have finite financial resources to allocate for concerts and only so many holidays to use up and work around tour schedules!!

SD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-12 00:54 by SonicDreamer.

Tour announcement in early March, first show in June, 3 months of advance is a lot of time IMO.

Whatever happened to Peter Rudge who was the Michael Cohl of 1975?!

what happened in 1975¿

Let me think?! Didn't Rudge even take over in 1972? Well, at least, he is the first to be praised to arrange a stadium (instead of ice-hockey and basketball arena) tour of the US and Canada. That was in 1975. The Stones were also first by that in Europe in 1982 - then organized by Bill Graham.
I have a book by Christopher Sykes and Terry Southern who were very close to the Stones for a long (not only during that our) time (with pictures of the famed Annie Leibovitz) which indicates that Rudge was the promoter of the time who made Led Zeppelin and the like.

Led Zeppelin did not use big time promoters in the States by the early 70s. Peter Grant put up the deposit for the Stadiums they played and used local promoters for the menial local stuff, to liaise with local radio stations and press. Their gigs sold out so fast they did not need any promotion.

SD

SD, I don't think there is a contradiction in it. No question, Grant was THE Led Zep manager but who organized all post-Oldham-Stones-Tours?!
By the early 70s managing included delegating tours to other people specialiezd in touring a certain country.
Rudge is called "Commander Big Quid" all the time during the 75 book. I know Bill Graham took over at least by 81. So what about 78 and 76 (Europe)

georgelicks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tour announcement in early March, first show in
> June, 3 months of advance is a lot of time IMO.


Maybe in Argentina when theyre just playing a couple of shows and not a large number of other acts are competing for people's money, but not here.

To me it makes no sense to wait on some shows to get confirmed to announce the whole tour together. On plenty of other tours theyve been able to announce a tour and publish what turns out to be an incomplete schedule with more dates added at a later date. Common sense dictates that the earlier you put tickets on sale, the easier it will be to sell them. If theyre planning to do, say, 25 shows and know 15 of them now, then announce the f***king thing,put them on sale and then work out the logistics and arrangements for the other shows afterwards. Every other bloody act is beating them to the punch.

The wider general public isnt even aware that the Stones are planning a summer tour. By the time Cohl gets around to organising an announcement, half of the continent will have made their holiday plans for the summer and already decided what other shows theyre spending their disposable income on.

Gazza, by reading your post, I somehow got the notion. Notion that's the right thing.
I was looking forward to the Who touring Europe. When they announced the dates I was disappointed as the dates geografically reasonable don't fit. But I feel rather comfortable probably not seeing the Who this year as I have seen them last year.
Give me the dates and I will see the Stones. If there is no chance to manage it out of whatever reason I (hardly, but somehow) have to comfort myself with having seen them last year.
And I am sure that's the notion most Stones visitors (non-iorrers that is) go through when first reading about Stones dates announced: I gotta catch them because they didn't play at my venue last year or I will catch them as this is the first time they play in my place.

One would hope thats the case. However, if theyve already made their plans for the summer and a Stones tour date doesnt suit them, thats a problem.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One would hope thats the case. However, if theyve
> already made their plans for the summer and a
> Stones tour date doesnt suit them, thats a
> problem.


So Gazza. Go out on a limb. This is all starting to get a little bazaar. In your humble opinion,are the stones going tour this summer or not.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Of course they are. Everything I've read or been told by e-mail indicates that they are. No 'limb' required.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-12 02:49 by Gazza.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course they are. Everything I've read or been
> told by e-mail indicates that they are. No 'limb'
> required.


Well that was painless. I wouldn't want you to fall off that narrow limb you climbed out on.
I won't even bother to nit pick about how you are a walking (posting)contradiction, one hand it's a lock they will tour.On the other,why are they waiting so long. Then again,considering the source,it makes perfect sense. Sort of.

Very charming of you to be so personal and rude about it, per usual

Theres no contradiction at all. They're touring but the wait to announce such a tour isnt doing them any favours as far as seling tickets is concerned. I've never once implied that the wait suggests there wont be a tour. Feel free to show me where I have. I'm pretty much saying the same as what SonicDreamer says in his orginal post.

Cant see how thats so hard to understand.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-12 03:19 by Gazza.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very charming of you to be so personal and rude
> about it, per usual
>
> Theres no contradiction at all. They're touring
> but the wait to announce such a tour isnt doing
> them any favours as far as seling tickets is
> concerned. I've never once implied that the wait
> suggests there wont be a tour. Feel free to show
> me where I have.
>
> Cant see how thats so hard to understand.




Ok,first of all. There's nothing personal or rude on my part. (charming maybe) This isn't life or death stuff. Trying to have a little fun. If there really is going to be a European tour. Great. Go and have fun. I mean that sincerely. To be serious for half a second. It is kinda hard to tell where you are coming from sometimes. I have no doubt you are an avid die hard Stones fan. But reading your posts,you come out with some equally harsh anti-stones stuff as well. I'm not saying you have to fall all over your self worshipping the Stones. But it's kind of hard to tell where you are coming from sometimes.

Yep..I have a love/hate thing with them for sure. First to admit it. Love the music and the concerts. Hate the money-at-all-costs business ethic of the last few years, though which I think has been detrimental to them from an artistic perspective because they really can still cut it as far as I'm concerned.

I dont personally see that as a contradiction, as hero worship isnt my personal thing. Any criticism in this thread isnt directed at the band, though.

I'm charmed already



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-02-12 03:28 by Gazza.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep..I have a love/hate thing with them for sure.
> First to admit it. Love the music and the
> concerts. Hate the money-at-all-costs business
> ethic
>
> I'm charmed already

So am I Bro.
Well,either the Heineken's are starting to kick in, or,God forbid you are making sense. I think I can actually comprehend that. Seperating business from pleasure.

My biggest quibble isn't neccessarily the business aspect. Nobody is forcing me to buy tickets or merchandise. But can't they change the FUC@*NG setlist after 50 years.

"It's a town full of loser's and I'm pulling out of here to win"

tick, tick, tick...

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe in Argentina when theyre just playing a
> couple of shows and not a large number of other
> acts are competing for people's money, but not
> here.
>
> To me it makes no sense to wait on some shows to
> get confirmed to announce the whole tour together.
> On plenty of other tours theyve been able to
> announce a tour and publish what turns out to be
> an incomplete schedule with more dates added at a
> later date. Common sense dictates that the earlier
> you put tickets on sale, the easier it will be to
> sell them. If theyre planning to do, say, 25 shows
> and know 15 of them now, then announce the
> f***king thing,put them on sale and then work out
> the logistics and arrangements for the other shows
> afterwards. Every other bloody act is beating them
> to the punch.
>
> The wider general public isnt even aware that the
> Stones are planning a summer tour. By the time
> Cohl gets around to organising an announcement,
> half of the continent will have made their holiday
> plans for the summer and already decided what
> other shows theyre spending their disposable
> income on.


Right on! The waiting is killing me. I never got why they're waiting this long.
I too have a love/hate relationship with the band, but it's other aspects than money I don't like.

JumpingKentFlash

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The wider general public isnt even aware that the
> Stones are planning a summer tour.

That's true.

By the time
> Cohl gets around to organising an announcement,
> half of the continent will have made their holiday
> plans for the summer and already decided what
> other shows theyre spending their disposable
> income on.

And there are a lot of shows casual stones "fans" can pick from.
A summer at the museum :-)

I don't understand it either. Why wait for so long to announce the tour. It's not only a very busy summer with major acts like The Who, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Aerosmith, The Police, Pearl Jam etc. but also the ticket sale for the big summer festivals will start pretty soon. You can only spend your money once.

Damn it. I thought I found something. Had me fooled for a second there:



JumpingKentFlash

Maybe the incidence of other tours, which were likely further advanced in the planning stages, is actually part of the reason for the perceived delay in announcements ?
I'm sure that tour promoters must all have prior inside knowledge of what everybody else is doing.
Don't forget that most major tours are planned a couple of years in advance [a year at the least]

I doubt they're planned that far in advance, quite honestly - plus as the Stones postponed/cancelled half of their summer 2006 tour as long ago as May 2006, its not like they havent had long to prepare a new itinerary, especially as its a short tour, many of the cities chosen are basically rescheduled shows from last summer - plus the fact that they managed to put together another tour in the period in between

You're probably right Gazza. Point taken ;^)

So lets start some wild speculation about why they are putting the dates out so late

Cohl is on drugs and can't get it together right now oO

ok, thats silly - but I'm absolutely clueless

I'm no huge fan of Cohl, but how can anyone say he doesn't know what he's doing, when each successive tour outgrosses the last one ?

Sure some shows had weak attendence and some were "papered" as some of the posters here like to call it, but at the end of the day ABB was the highest grossing tour of all time.

We all bitched and moaned about the high ticket prices and then went anyways. I'm not saying I agree with any of this, but the facts are the facts.

Please, Montrealsuperfan, don't be that realistic and down-to-earth!
Open-G has invited us to his speculation-track, just join him!

Personally I think Cohl is sitting shaking in a wheel-chair in a padded cell right now...not reachable for any of the local European organizers.

While I'd like to see the announcement sooner rather than later, Cohl handling any other major tour is not indicative of a conflict. And for the gentleman who asked, Pete Rudge is currently managing Ray Davies (formerly of The Kinks). He signed him to V2 Records in the Fall of 2005. Mr. Davies was working on his second album for the label when V2 filed for bankruptcy last month.
Davies hasjoined the ever-growing list of sixties legends without a record label.