A statement that I made in a another post I felt deserved its own thread for discussion.

I said that most women (not all) that attend Stones shows go to see them mainly to hear the big hits and well known songs, and of course to see the band like everyone else.

Not being sexist, and no offense to the fine knowledgeable women at our beloved site here, but take a look at some of the posts on this and other sites (if you can tell the men from women). Men tend to be more concerned with the details of the music and band whereas women are more into hearing the songs they know and the rock star appeal. IMO just thru observations.

Men are concerned with the set-list, history, chords, lyrics, etc... women I don't feel really care as much about these things as their male counterparts. If we are talking about that 5% of hardcore audience does the statement still apply?

What do you think?

Shoot I must be on the turn cause I don't give a monkeys fug about chords!!

I think you re describing the difference between casual and more devoted or hardcore fans. I think the question should be if the Stones' music in general appeals more to men than women... IMO the answer is no...

Who the f*ck is Mick Jagger?

The Sicilian Wrote:
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>
> Men are concerned with the set-list, history,
> chords, lyrics, etc...

That's because we're obsessed with schemes, statistics, history, tables and structure when it comes to our hobbies.

The romantic and unstructured part, which women build from adorations and relating, is certainly present with the men as well, but we fill it in with beer and insane drunken talking.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-03-24 16:57 by Limbostone.

>> women I don't feel really care as much about these things <<

how shall i put this nicely? i believe you're completely, utterly wrong.
of course some males seem to view the Stones as somehow "male territory", which i usually find just vaguely quaint/amusing,
but to say that knowledge of/interest in their music, history, etc, is somehow "male" ... that's a total crock.
true that on most Stones fan boards there seem to be more males than females,
but what they post is not routinely more knowledgeable or informed than what the females post.

I agree witb miss sssoul! The majority of Stones fans are male, which is simply a fact, but to say that female fans wouldn't be interessted in the musical history, and would only like the band because of their cool looks(that's what you're getting at) is a big pile of stinkin' bullshit!!

Reptile Wrote:
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> I agree witb miss sssoul! The majority of Stones
> fans are male, which is simply a fact.

Reptile,

Looking at your statement, why are there more male fans than women? Which fans dissect the details of the Stones more the majority of men or the minority of women?

So why are men more attracted to the Stones than women?

For the same reason there's more men than women that like motorcycles.

Ticket pricing is the root cause of much of the bitterness, resentment and subsequent whining over setlists as people try to justify the expenditures. To the extent that men pay for more tickets than women your comments seem accurate.

Absolutely.

I hear people complain about the Stones being the way they are, playing the songs they are known to play, using the same guitars and amps they have used since 1962.

Some people get rid of their partners when they do not fit, but for some reason people are just desperate to keep the Stones they were many many years ago. Like bring back another guitar played with same name ast the singer, play a lot of rare songs the Stones are not known for doing and so on.

Living in a partnership with a man or a husband means you have to tolerate and accept each others the way you are. Well if you have been together for 20+ years then great so you know what tolerance and understanding is. Then use the same for the band called the Stones and you will understand they are the way they have been for 44 years now. They will not change even if you want it that way.

Bjornulf

"which fans dissect the details of the Stones more the majority of men or the minority of women?"

okay so which fans start more threads like "where do the Stones live" or "which Stones offspring is the best looking"?
which fans make the most just-plain-factually-wrong statements about the Stones?
which fans air their subjective opinions about the Stones more?
which fans more regularly mistake their subjective opinions for facts?
which fans get into fights more? which fans stay out of fights more? which fans lurk more?
which fans listen to the music more? which fans hear the music better?

>> Not being sexist <<

yep, you are.

Why???

Since Mick sings, I'll bet he decides 95% of the time what gets played. If you asked the other members to design a set-list I'll bet that you would not see the same shows your seeing tour after tour.

>> Why??? Since Mick sings, I'll bet he decides 95% of the time what gets played. If you asked the other members to design a set-list I'll bet that you would not see the same shows your seeing tour after tour. <<

... are you addressing me?
the theory that males have more interest in/knowledge about the Stones' music or history than females do is sexist.
what does your statement about setlist decisions have to do with it?
are you changing the subject to setlists in hopes that i'll go away? :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-03-24 18:18 by with sssoul.

sssoul,

I was addressing BV. Your post must have came up while I was writing. I am not being sexist, just looking at what I see, injecting my opinion into it, and laying out my case.

Try not to view this as a taunt towards women. The problem with issues is that people automatically grab it and label someone. I'm just objectively looking at it. If it is skewed one way or another it does not make the person sexist, racist, anti-semetic or whatever.

Please don't drag this into that direction, argue it, ignore it, yell about it, but talk about the facts and your observations. I really do admire your thoughts on this.

Ope your eyes and understand the topic. If you are female just read this post as:

Re: Do women want more from Stones than "their" men?

Comprende?

Bjornulf

I think the Sicilan is trying to be as civil as possible and is not going to be baited. IMO this is a very valid question to pose. It is an interesting point to me. If anyone in this whole equation could be labelled as feminist it is jagger and his songs who attract such a lareg fanatical male following. Maybe, if I am allowed to take the Sicilian's Q a little further, one wonders why women are fans of someone who sings about "Stupid Girls" "under my thumb" called a "Bitch" etc.
I realize by the same token of course that Jagger will be incredibly romantic and maybe make up for it, by singing "sometimes I wanna wrap my coat around you", "see your face dancing in the flames, feel your mouth kissing me again".

It is obviousl;y not true that men know their facts re. the Stones better than women. But when looking at a hot rockband, do guys think about other things than girls?
I mean, while guys want to BE Jagger, the girls wnat to BE WITH Jagger. That's quite a difference, no?

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

>> I'm just objectively looking at it. If it is skewed one way or another it does not make the person sexist, racist, anti-semetic or whatever. <<

a theory that knowledge of/interest in the music is a gender-related quality is sexist. (you can look the meaning of the term up somewhere.)
if that's not an everyday attitude of yours: good. i didn't claim it is.

what you've presented so far it doesn't seem "objective"; apparently it's based on your own personal judgement
of who is/isn't knowledgeable about/interested in the music.
if all you're saying is that complaints about the setlists seem to come more from males than from females ...
yeah, probably - but setlist whining has nothing (0) to do with knowledge of/interest in the music.

and Bjornulf, as for "understanding the topic": i feel i've given it an adequate subject line, thanks. :E

The thread is open to digressions ChelseaDrugstore, and you know what I have often fantasized myself as the Jagger singing to millions, who hasn't?

Singing is definitely an outlet for his passions, misfortunes, and highlights. Don't downplay the fact that he is also a master at appealing to the emotions and lust of men and women. He knows that what may drive a man to a fist pounding YEAH!! can also be construed as an insult or a little attack on women inciting their feelings as well.

... I think it's pretty safe to say more Stones fans are male than female. I don't think that's a sexist or unfair statement. It's just true.
And since there are more male fans, there are more male 'complainers'.

Reptile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree witb miss sssoul! The majority of Stones
> fans are male, which is simply a fact, but to say
> that female fans wouldn't be interessted in the
> musical history, and would only like the band
> because of their cool looks(that's what you're
> getting at) is a big pile of stinkin' bullshit!!


But many people still harbor the taught/conditioned/socialized (whatever you wanna call it) masculine/feminie "roles", and whether you like "Stones type of music" or not is still a big part of that.

When at Wembley Arena 2003 there seemed to be as many women as men. Or was it that I only look at women and not men? That's not sexist, just natural.

Some Girl Wrote:
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> ... I think it's pretty safe to say more Stones
> fans are male than female. I don't think that's a
> sexist or unfair statement. It's just true.
> And since there are more male fans, there are more
> male 'complainers'.

That was not the situation in 64-68!!!!!

jagger50 Wrote:
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> When at Wembley Arena 2003 there seemed to be as
> many women as men. Or was it that I only look at
> women and not men? That's not sexist, just
> natural.


You're kind of inadvertently proving Sicilian's point now. Wembley is a big place-- more likely to have casual fans (lotsa females). Look at the Olympia DVD-- diehard fans-- and they are all men.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-03-24 21:23 by Some Girl.

Sorry.

Why sorry, lol?

i want lisa!!

Some Girl Wrote:
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> Why sorry, lol?
>


Er!

The Sicilian may have opened up something of a can of worms, but I am afraid that I generally always experience one of the things he is saying-- I find it very hard to find females who are diehard music fans. Most of the time, it's men, and women tend to only like music peripherally. hence, most of my friends are guys, and the only reason why this is a bummer is because women, then, aren't as represented in these types of communities as much as men. It's not just the Stones, generally every artist that has a big diehard contingent of fans is overrepresented by males.
You can argue that women have less time for music, but I don't want to get into this too deep.

I totally disagree but I can only speak for myself in this matter; as a faithful female " fan" for over 40 years I want exactly what the die-hard male fans want and expect from the Stones! I notice when Mick changes the lyrics, or when Ronnie messes up a lead, or when Keith starts a song in the wrong key, I know all of the chord changes to all of the songs and I notice when Bobby Keyes blows off key! I am however very tolerant because I recognize that an " off night" for the Stones is far better than 99% of the crap produced today. Maybe I am a bit prejudiced but I'm not goig to change my views after all of these years. I am tolerant most of the time but I was miffed when I saw that the first show in Japan was 22 songs long and they played " SWAY". As much as I loved the RCMH show, and it was a KILLER, the 19 songs urked me a bit and only one gem bothered me a little as well. I'll live, I had a blast so in the end I philosophically chalk it up to just another night in the trenches!!

I guess that's what makes the Stones human. The mistakes. It makes me, as a muscian, relate to them easier.