I cannot believe the setlist of the Mariner Arena! The number of songs from ABB has now shrunk to ***2***!
By the time they get to Europe, we will just get some kind of 40 licks show with only Start me up, brown sugar and so on. We will be excited if they play Oh No not you again once or twice.
They just delivered an album with almost no fillers, just killers. Why don't they PLAY them!!!

yep.....where the F is "It Won't Take Long"???

and they need to mix "Back of My Hand" back into the set-list IMMEDIATELY....

I agree, dude...it is a bit strange for this to be a tour to support an album and they hardly play any tunes from it....

but, still some sick shows out there...

IWTL would be a real smasher. Hope they perform it soon.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IWTL would be a real smasher. Hope they perform it soon.


The video clip on rs.com of IWTL from the San Diego show is not what I would call a "smasher".

Its a studio smasher. May be a live smasher. In due time.

Let's hope so!

Berber Jewelry Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I cannot believe the setlist of the Mariner Arena!
> The number of songs from ABB has now shrunk to
> ***2***!
> By the time they get to Europe, we will just get
> some kind of 40 licks show with only Start me up,
> brown sugar and so on. We will be excited if they
> play Oh No not you again once or twice.
> They just delivered an album with almost no
> fillers, just killers. Why don't they PLAY them!!!

Totaly agree...

I was already dissapointed in just getting 4 new songs a show...but what they do after the christmas break is even worse....2 new tunes + one by keith is rather ridicilous...but that they shrunk it down to one new song plus the keith one is beyond evrything I ever could imagine.

So I want to know. Why do the Stones don`t have the balls to play songs from their new album ?
What may be the reason for avoiding playing tunes from the new album ?

i mean..if the Stones would bring out a new album evry 2 years...it would be different, but the main question should be:
Why do the Rolling Stones ignore their first studio album in 8 years, when going on the road to promote exactly that new album ?


What about all the people which are in the "inner Stones circle" ?
I mean don`t they talk about the setlist backstage ?
isn`t their someone who tells them that playing 2 or 3 new songs only is rubbish ?

I mean ..have we all become so simple and bored that we are only satisfied by getting the same greatest Hitest for ages ?
Isnt their a Stones world beyond satisfaction ?

I refuse to accept that all the Rolling Stones music is about:
JJflash, Brown Sugar, Start me up, Miss You....

I still have Micks words in my erars..
"it doesen`t make sence to be on the stage without performing any new stuff "

I totaly agree Mick Jagger...lets do it.

I think when they come to southamerica they will play Don`t Stop and leave out ABB at all....so they can play more of the Greatest hits....haha.

Cu on tour

salar

greatest hits show are really boring. In Europe we will hear only This Place Is Empty probably. tour with no name as it should be. Now we know why it's not call ABB TOUR. ON STAGE TOUR means GREATEST HITS SHOW ( plus 1 or 2 new tracks but not necessary). What's the point to collect all bootlegs from this tour ? I don't want another GREAT version of gimme shelter. Do they really enjoy this tour? I wasn't very critical till now but IT"S ALL ABOUT MONEY !!! ( you can take the money pal yeahhhhhh sure ). How they want to make another classic tunes if they don't play them ?

the majority of people who buy Stones concert tickets, want to hear Satisfaction, JJF, BS, SMU, SFTD etc, etc.... they're not Stones obsessives- they attend concerts for a Greatest Hits show and for the nostalgia.
That's the simple, plain truth.

If they played the entire ABB album with 3-4 warhorses thrown in at the end of the show, the Stadium/Arena would be 60-75% empty by this point.

Concertgoers want instant gratification- they want the hits.

ABB is not a good album and I think the Stones themselves know that very well. 2-3 good songs, the rest is mediocre crap. They don't even feature their current singles...I mean, really. You cannot show it clearer that you don't like your own songs.

It Won't Take Long was saved for Chuck's homecoming next week. Word!

Aucoin Wrote:
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> You cannot show it clearer that you don't like your own
> songs.

maybe they love their new songs- we don't know.
But that's not the point..the point is, they are playing to the masses-
the 90% that want to hear the Greatest Hits show, with a couple of ABB songs thrown in , (which allows them time to go for a piss break or queue for a beer.)

Adrian-L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aucoin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You cannot show it clearer that you don't
> like your own
> > songs.
>
> maybe they love their new songs- we don't know.
> But that's not the point..the point is, they are
> playing to the masses-
> the 90% that want to hear the Greatest Hits show,
> with a couple of ABB songs thrown in , (which
> allows them time to go for a piss break or queue
> for a beer.)

Yeah. You're right.
>
>
>

Steven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It Won't Take Long was saved for Chuck's
> homecoming next week. Word!

Well, I guess I gotta envy yourself & oool' Elmo.
Maybe they polish it up for Europe too.

Aucoin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot
> show it clearer that you don't like your own
> songs.


I dont know about that. I think its more a case that theyre showing that they have no faith in their audience - or rather, the audience that comes to Rolling Stones shows in 2006

Even the MSG crowd - who almost all paid $450 a ticket for 2 shows 2 weeks ago - almost all sat on their arses or went to the bar or toilet when they played anything new. These people just dont know or care about the new songs, going by that reaction and the lacklustre sales. And MSG was otherwise a good audience and (by all accounts from those who went to other shows) one of the more appreciative of this tour

I've said it before. When you charge these prices, you are NOT aiming the show at a normal Rolling Stones audience (or a normal 'rock' audience for that matter), but an affluent corporate audience who happen to know and like a small number of Stones songs and who are going along to see the 'legend'. The ever-increasing reliance on a nostalgia-based greatest hits show (coupled with an ever increasing percentage of tickets in the $400 range on each succeeding tour) is evidence that the Stones are pandering to that sort of audience. A lot of fans on here get touchy when its described as a 'Vegas' show but if the band is compromising themselves to that sort of audience, then thats exactly the reason why it gets that tag.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the greatest rock n roll band in the world should never be reduced to the level of being a jukebox for people too lazy to buy any of their records beyond '40 Licks'. They have a catalogue of songs which has long ago earned them the right to play what the hell they want.

Early in this tour, when people criticised the lack of new songs in the setlist, this opinion was answered by the excuse that as the album was only out, most people wouldnt know the new songs and that (as was the case with Bridges To babylon) as the tour progressed, they would gradually incorporate more new songs into the show. Five and half months and about 45-50 shows into the tour and now it's down to TWO new songs - and one of them is Keith's!


The 'buck'- if you excuse the pun - stops with the Stones. At these prices, they get the type of fan they've targeted and deserve - and the show becomes creatively unambitious as a result. It's not that long ago that Mick used to trumpet the adage that they would never do a nostalgia show (a la The Beach Boys) and that to evolve and grow as a band they had to keep performing new songs in the show....thats now no longer the case.




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-02 23:32 by Gazza.

Adrian-L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the majority of people who buy Stones concert
> tickets, want to hear Satisfaction, JJF, BS, SMU,
> SFTD etc, etc.... they're not Stones obsessives-
> they attend concerts for a Greatest Hits show and
> for the nostalgia.
> That's the simple, plain truth.
>
> If they played the entire ABB album with 3-4
> warhorses thrown in at the end of the show, the
> Stadium/Arena would be 60-75% empty by this
> point.
>
> Concertgoers want instant gratification- they
> want the hits.


thats the case with Stones' audiences. Other established artists' seem to have fans who know more than their greatest hits in my experience

But then most artists price concert tickets at a level where the people who know and care about their music can afford them

see the connection?

They play for masses true but other bands too. U2 did about 8 songs from last album each show ( Vertigo as an opener).Rough Justice is perfect to open the show but mr.Jagger doesn't like changes so better to play start mu up. Crowd went crazy on She's so cold or ain't too... which aren't big hits. probably half of stadium didn't know it. i understand half show :hits, half new and rare stuff to old fans. since 89 tour Stones are self-conscious about their popularity. They must play new stuff for themselves !!! How can ABB sell good in USA if there's no promotion?!!!

Other bands play for the masses, but other bands haven't got the nostalgia/historical "better see them before they die" angle, that The Stones have.
U2 haven't been together as a culturally defining band since 1962. They're concert going audience is a different demograph, with different expectations.

Why do people pay big monet to see McCartney??...simple answer is, they want to hear a Beatle sing old Beatle tunes.

exactly, thrak

I think theres also a subliminal fear that with this type of audience if they play something unfamiliar they'll lose the audience's enthusiasm and not get it back (unlikely when you have a performer of Jagger's ability and the catalogue that this band has)

Other artists take that chance and EXPECT their audience to go with them and know the new songs and old album cuts. That works when its YOUR audience you're playing to, though. The Stones did this up to 1999. They dont now.

you're right but it's so sad

thrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jagger doesn't like changes
> so better to play start mu up.

I think it's not fair charging Mick about the setlist. I wouldn't dare to put anything remotely innovative into the setlist out of a standard 12-bar blues when my two guitar players are nowhere near their best form...

> since 89 tour Stones are
> self-conscious about their popularity. They must
> play new stuff for themselves !!! How can ABB sell
> good in USA if there's no promotion?!!!

I agree with you: they must play the new stuff.

About being self-conscious about their popularity, what I find VERY SAD is that they seem to not being really conscious of about their LEGACY.


[There'll be no wedding today...]

Adrian-L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other bands play for the masses, but other bands
> haven't got the nostalgia/historical "better see
> them before they die" angle, that The Stones
> have.
>

everybody's had that chance since about 1989, Adrian. Its not like the Stones have that many 'first timers' going to see them considering they're on the road almost every year now

I'd disagree on your point that other artists havent the same angle. Dylan started around the same time as the Stones did. Totally different work ethic. Re-dedicated himself to the ethic of a performing artist in the late 80s, tours every year, plays a wide variety of songs from his back catalogue, reinvents them constantly, and keeps the prices reasonable...and his audiences are a lot younger than what I see at a Stones gig and they KNOW the obscure stuff too

The old argument that Dylan cant fill stadiums isnt the issue. Before he did this Never Ending tour thing, he was capable of doing so and did. The Stones dont have to pander to that shit anymore, theyve done it to death and done it better than anyone else. A different attitude to their art would be most welcome

> Why do people pay big monet to see
> McCartney??...simple answer is, they want to hear
> a Beatle sing old Beatle tunes.

two wrongs dont make a right. If he had any balls, he'd try and grow as a artist as well. If he's content at pandering to rich nostalgia freaks who still think its 1969, thats his problem. It shouldnt be the Stones' problem.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-02 18:16 by Gazza.

Edit: it's not fair charging ONLY Mick about the setlist. He is somewhat gilty, too.

[There'll be no wedding today...]

> If they played the entire ABB album with 3-4 warhorses thrown in at the end of the show, the Stadium/Arena would be 60-75% empty by this point.

1. Probably not. Maybe 10% empty. If you don't know a piece of theatre yet, you also won't
leave early just because of that.

2. And even supposed this was the case - so what? So much the better. Smaller
venues, attentive fans, challenges with new songs - what more can a musician want?

3. Ok, he can want more Moh-ney. Duh.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Other established artists' seem to have fans who know
> more than their greatest hits in my experience
>
> But then most artists price concert tickets at a
> level where the people who know and care about
> their music can afford them
>
> see the connection?

I do- and i agree with 99.9% of your eloquent points- but i also think us passionate die-hards, are deceiving ourselves and banging our heads against a large brick wall.
They're not going to drop price and play non-warhorse sets.

Oh, I realise that 100%, Adrian. I'm certainly not delusional about the reality.

Just emphasising the point that the Stones dont have the desire (or balls) to embrace and respect their legacy and do something like that - and they never will as long as their ambition to generate money far exceeds their desire to step off the gravy train and change their work ethic.

The potential for this band to be even greater is still there. Unfortunately, their definition of greatness (and that of some of their fans) seems to be limited to topping the concert grossing listings every year one way or another. Nice for the bank balance, but artistically redundant and pointless.

(duplicate post....edited to avoid pissing you all off twice in the space of a few seconds...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-02-02 23:30 by Gazza.

Aucoin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ABB is not a good album and I think the Stones
> themselves know that very well. 2-3 good songs,
> the rest is mediocre crap. They don't even feature
> their current singles...I mean, really. You cannot
> show it clearer that you don't like your own
> songs.


Speaking of mediocre crap: This post looks a lot like those other whiner posts. Stop it.

JumpingKentFlash

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adrian-L Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > the majority of people who buy Stones
> concert
> > tickets, want to hear Satisfaction, JJF, BS,
> SMU,
> > SFTD etc, etc.... they're not Stones
> obsessives-
> > they attend concerts for a Greatest Hits show
> and
> > for the nostalgia.
> > That's the simple, plain truth.
> >
> > If they played the entire ABB album with
> 3-4
> > warhorses thrown in at the end of the show,
> the
> > Stadium/Arena would be 60-75% empty by this
> > point.
> >
> > Concertgoers want instant gratification-
> they
> > want the hits.
>
This is the main reason for those people who are defending the SAME Greatest Hits setlist tour after tour....but who says so ?
has it ever been proved ?

Did the Stones ever try it out for ..lets say...5 or 6 gigs in a row by kind of testing the audience reaction ?

Did they ever try a show with: 7 new songs....5 less known and obscures and still 8 classic hits ?
No, they did not.......

I think...if the perfomance and the quality of the songs are good..than the Stones may play anything they like....it will be honoured by the crowd for sure...well maybe this won`t work with US-audience who seem to be addicted to the Greatest Hits Stones.

IMO the Stones do not have the balls AND they are too lazy trying out new stuff..the autopilot is far more comfotable during tour


Cu on Licks part 2 this summer

salar

thrak Wrote: How can ABB sell
> good in USA if there's no promotion?!!!
The problem with this is that the biggest revenues for bands are nowadays not from album sales, but from touring. That's why they seem to think they don't have to promote the album but can just play greatest hits shows to top all ticket selling charts. And still it's bullshit. I just played "Out on bail" - a lot of happy noise from the crowd when Mick announces new stuff. And at the B2B tour, the audience went mad when they did Saint of me and Out of Control.