I am repeating this may be every month, as people forget or just want to stretch the rules. Also I have been accused of heavily cencorship, so this is a brief presentation of the IORR Forum policy. The policy is not open for discussion. It is final. But if you have input or comments then feel free to send e-mail to me at iorr@arena.no.

You may talk about virtually anything on IORR Tell Me, but most of the time it should be Stones related. The posts should not be offending. By offending I mean offending to individuals, i.e. bad language or posts that most people will understand are offending to others. Politics are not accepted here because there are too many countries and cultures visiting and by experience political posts lead to big fights within hours every time they appear. So political posts will turn offending eventually and are not accepted.

It is not acceptable to discuss individuals here, unless the individual has accepted the topic and the precence of the discussion, and the discussion shopuld still be acceptable i.e. not offending. By indivinduals please read any normal private person on earth. Why? Because there is something called privacy. Again and again people start discussing private individuals and the posts are usually not nice at all.

You may talk about and discuss any public person on IORR including Mick, Keith, Charlie and Ronnie. Of Course. That is the whole point of IORR. To talk about the Stones. A person is public when this person choose to be on stage with the Stones or in other ways makes his/her precence public. Clearly.

Campaigns are not accepted. This means it is acceptable to say you hate (or love) the drumming of Charlie one time and two times and may be even 10 times but to repeat such posts every day and every week is called campaigns and such posts are not accepted. Why? Because campaigns are not balanced talking. It is few people forcing their own opinions on many others. And a lot of people find that offending.

There is a small, very small group of people who love Mick Taylor and who don't love Ronnie Wood. These people love to start campaigns about these individuals every time there is a chance for it. In main topics or in small signatures or comments inside posts. Because most people on IORR find these posts annoying and offending they are not accepted. They are campaigns and not acceptable.

IORR is open for more than 300,000 persons who visit this site every month. Some of these do also visit IORR Tell Me, to talk with fellow Stones fans. The more narrow and agressive people behave on IORR Tell Me the less interesting it is for the many. IORR Tell Me is open for most people and not just for those who like to do punchline posts and posts that many find offending. Remember offending means offending to others even if you think it is ok.

IORR is not a pussycat kind of site. You may express your opinions. It is not paradise where everybody loves each other. But it is still very much based on respect and high thoughts of individuals. The basic rule should be - If you don't have anything nice to say then think twice if what yo say is really important and interesting to most others.

Why can't the Stones play "Oh No Not You Again" or "Star Star" at Superbowl halftime? And why do we spell "Star Star" like this and not like the "real way"? Answer to the first question: Superbowl is a family event, and just like we don't like to have kids under 12 years old drinking alcohol, we don't want to have them hear, listen to, learn and use all the words and habits Mick and Keith use at concerts.

Ideally we could run IORR as an anarchy and people could do whatever they like. But anarchy is known not to work well, and the more people try to bend rules the more rules there need to be. So on IORR there is simply only one rule. Please do not post offensive. And the IORR Editor is deciding if it is offending, based on feedback from many many people from all over the world, sending e-mail about what they think. So if you want your voice to be heard, please send your comments by e-mail to: iorr@arena.no

Bjørnulf Vik
IORR Editor

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Campaigns are not accepted. This means it is
> acceptable to say you hate (or love) the drumming
> of Charlie one time and two times and may be even
> 10 times but to repeat such posts every day and
> every week is called campaigns and such posts are
> not accepted. Why? Because campaigns are not
> balanced talking. It is few people forcing their
> own opinions on many others. And a lot of people
> find that offending.

*BUMP* (I guess).

So if I had a campaign (Let's just speculate here), I should just have it as my signature right? As long as it's not offending. Like I could write "Ronnie Wood Rules", but not "Ronnie Wood is better than Taylor, so @#$%& OFF"? I guess I'm on for these rules.....

JumpingKentFlash

I assume people here are intelligent. If I tell you that you are a nice person then you will not be offended. So "Ronnie Wood rules" will not offend any person. And I don't think anybody would be offended at all if you had that as a signature. It's just a sign saying byou love a band member a lot, which is why we are all big stones fans. But if I tell you in public 5 times every day you are not a nice person, and that I don't like your face, then people will be offended and upset. That is how the human brain works. We have feelings and we don't like to see others being treated badly in general.

If you have the opposite type of signature: "Darryl Jones sucks" (not my opinion, just an example) then I hope most people understand that is unusual if you are a big stones fan and most Stones fans will be truely offended. So it is a matter of what you might expect to meet day to day on a site that is dedicated to love and not to hate. General critical comments are fine but they have to be in sync with normal average public opinion. If 9 out of 10 posts on IORR are "I hate Keith smoking" then it is not balanced. People will be offended.

If I hired 200 people to put up posters all over Norway saying "Sweden is better than Norway" then it might be my personal opinon (it is not) and it is not really offending may be but all the posters would have been gone within hours because 9 out of 10 peop,ke would find it offending. We have democracy in Norway but still everybody expect people to show respect and have manners.

Still unclear what manners respect and offending mean in the real world?

Bjornulf

But I can't imagine Openg being offensive???
Repetitive but not offensive. I continually disagree with him but never receive any personal attacks (unlike one MT fruitloop!!).
His threads can be sometimes informative and concise and I personally will miss them....
Go on.... think again!

I like the wording of "a site dedicated to love, not to hate". That is pretty deep; kind of sums it all up.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Still unclear what manners respect and offending
> mean in the real world?
>
> Bjornulf


Relax BV and bring OpenG back. He didn't mean any harm with his posts!

It's rather great not to have to stumble upon all those crazy postings on Mick Taylor being the best guitarist and that silly vibrato nonsense in the future.
Thank you, BV. I feel much more relaxed already.

One of the characters on this site......

Just in case it is hard to understand then I have additional comments here:

[iorr.org]

As I said, if somebody hit my face then I get rid of them. If they say they are sorry and won't hit again then I say ok I will accept that. If people don'ts ay they are sorry and on the other hand will contunue consuming my limited available time on monitoring and cleaning up offensive talk there is no way I will accept any abuse of my time and the IORR policy.

Bjornulf

Bjornulf is the owner off IORR and this "Tell Me"-board, only he sets the rules. We are not only guests, we are bringing life to this board. Bjornulf knows this and he is a very tolerant boardowner.
There will be a very long way to go across his borders. And it would have been a very hard decission for him to throw off a stonesfan from this board, it must have really hurt him.
The only way to come back is to ask Bjornulf, not to ask other people to post "bring Open-G back" messages. Those messages will make it impossible for the listowner to step back.
Anothher way to come back: Chose a new name, log in again and respect Bjornulf rules.

All the people who don't like Bjornulf rules: Feel free to create your own messageboards. But that's a very heavy job, you'll find out soon ... ;-)

OK. Get it.

Hi folks,

we all love the Rolling Stones and their music. It is a wonderful forum, i think the best rolling stones forum on earth. I am a rolling stones fan since 1971, when i was 9 years old, my first show i saw in Hannover the 6 of June in 82, until now 52 shows. I am one of the luckiest boys on earth to see the Rolling Stones so often incl. 3 club shows (Brixton Academy, Circus Krone and Vredenburgh), i was at 3 shows in North America (Pasadena 94, Madison Square Garden 2 shows 2003) from europe. I spend a lot of money to see the Rolling Stones Live, but it is a part of my life. My favorite Rolling Stone is Keith Richards, but i love the other Stones also. And for me is Mick Taylor not better than Ronnie Wood. I met Mick Taylor here in Germany in a small music club and it was a pleasure for me to talk with him. And for me he plays better solo parts but live on stage Ronnie Wood has more ability to work in a team and that need a good band. I hope you know what i mean
Regards
Thomas

I wish BV luck - but with respect, he's whistling in the wind. I've been looking on here for about 4 years, there's always been bitching and arguing, particularly about off topic stuff (Iraq war, 9/11 etc etc). At least all that stuff has calmed down.

I don't see how it's going to stop - you can't shut people up by threatening them.

For what it is worth, I agree with Bjornulf completely. Anybody who doesn't understand his kind request to keep this board friendly, should find another place to express his/her feelings.

HighwireC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> All the people who don't like Bjornulf rules: Feel
> free to create your own messageboards. But that's
> a very heavy job, you'll find out soon ... ;-)
>
-------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely right HighwireC. This is Bjornulfs place and he sets the rules. Nobody is forced to post here. If you want to post here you simply have to keep to Bjornulf's rules. And if you don't like it, go somewhere else or as HighwireC put it very correctly, start your own site. Then you will find out how much work it is to keep it going.

Again Bjornulf, thank you so very much for all the work you did in the past and thank you very much for all the work you are still doing. I sincerely hope that everybody here will realise how much work it is to keep a website like this working. Too many people take too much for granted nowadays.
Good luck with your good work. Hope to meet you again when the Stones are in Europe.


-------------------
Keep On Rolling

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Campaigns are not accepted. This means it is
> acceptable to say you hate (or love) the drumming
> of Charlie one time and two times and may be even
> 10 times but to repeat such posts every day and
> every week is called campaigns and such posts are
> not accepted. Why? Because campaigns are not
> balanced talking. It is few people forcing their
> own opinions on many others. And a lot of people
> find that offending.
>

How is campaigning for Mick Taylor any different than all the people, including myself, who are constantly campaigning for the Stones to play a more varied setlist? That is the only part of the policy I don't understand, otherwise I understand and agree with it. As I've said before, I appreciate all the hard work you put into this forum, but I truly don't understand the campaigning portion of the rules and would really like to.

Anyone can live with these rules as long as they are enforced justly.

I come here to learn of and trade new Stones news and related musical stories. That is what this whole idea of this site.

#......Go ahead....Bite the Big Apple....Don't mind the Maggots.....Uh Huh...#

I feel that BV's set of rules might be the beginning of the end. Total freedom gives people the opportunity the have great discussions with respect for eachother. Of course, total freedom on the internet always means people abuse it, and sometimes crazy people can be annoying. Regulating forums like this with strict rules finnaly will kill the site. With absolutely no disrespect to Shidoobee, but the strict rules over there has made it at times a rather blend and uninspiring site to visit, with the best post of the day being something like "I love the Stones, what about you".

Of course it isn't nice when somebody starts a new thread just to attack me. But the positive side to that is that I can also express my opinions in all freedom.

To Bjornulf I would advice to keep his interactions with the Stones separate from being the admin of this board. You can never win a battle like this on the internet without finaly smuthering it.

Mathijs

Well, in the end, its Bjornulf's party and we are all lucky to be invited....we play by his rules at his invitation.

#......Go ahead....Bite the Big Apple....Don't mind the Maggots.....Uh Huh...#

Interactions with the Stones? Another guy who think I am employed by the Stones? I am probably their best customer in the world as a ticket buyer but I have no relatiuons with the band even if people who believe in conspiracy or are plain jealous do want to believe in all these gossip stories flying around on the net. So many experts around I am impressed. No wonder I have to make some rules.

Total freedom is may be what Amsterdam and Copenhagen is about. For drugs, hookers but may be not for everybody. One freedom often take away another. No freedom is more like Albania or surfing the web in China. I prefer to run a very limited set of rules. Very limited. Those rules are called common sense and respect. I understand big mouth people don't like these rules and some times late night it is funny to watch how big mouth people always bend the rules. But for 95% of the people in the world we like to live without big fights every day. I just want to make sure I don't spend every day working on moderating IORR. I am a professional at web analytics so I do clearly see quality and quantity of visitors on IORR. That is my professional trade. So far I have got one e-mail about cencorship in total so I don't think people are really worried. And if you follow IORR closely and see what I do actually allow, and understand that 99.9% of all posts pass by without any comments or problems, then I don't see the problem.

Bjornulf

Well said, Bjornulf Vik.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Total freedom is may be what Amsterdam and
> Copenhagen is about. For drugs, hookers but may be
> not for everybody. One freedom often take away
> another. No freedom is more like Albania or
> surfing the web in China.
> Bjornulf


I live in Amsterdam and there is NO total freedom on drugs and hookers.... I could take this as an insuld but you're just trying to get your point across, we understand that. That's the same thing OpenG did.

bye the way: I've surfed the web in China many times and I could access just about everything, even my Amsterdam coffee shop site!

=======bye the way: I've surfed the web in China many times and I could access just about everything======

Potted Shrimp, type in the words "Tiannanmen Square Massacre 1989" and see what you get.......

SQUAT!

#......Go ahead....Bite the Big Apple....Don't mind the Maggots.....Uh Huh...#

On the other hand if u type War Sui Gai into a Chinese search engine, you get some mighty fine recipes. ditto for sweeet and sour dissidents w/ brocolli.

Hey, bv, I'm new here so it's the first time I'm reading those rules. I very much like them. It's all about respect. It's good to be here.

Thanks for the board, and thanks for letting openg post anew.

thanks for the great site BV- all that you do-
and the knowledge this site has brought me.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Still unclear what manners respect and offending
> mean in the real world?


No no. I didn't even think it was unclear before your post.



JumpingKentFlash

Potted Shrimp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bv Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Total freedom is may be what Amsterdam and
> > Copenhagen is about. For drugs, hookers but
> may be
> > not for everybody. One freedom often take
> away
> > another. No freedom is more like Albania or
> > surfing the web in China.
> > Bjornulf
>
>
> I live in Amsterdam and there is NO total freedom
> on drugs and hookers.... I could take this as an
> insuld but you're just trying to get your point
> across, we understand that. That's the same thing
> OpenG did.
>
> bye the way: I've surfed the web in China many
> times and I could access just about everything,
> even my Amsterdam coffee shop site!
>
> Meg dumped me for David Letterman.


Yeah actually isnt htat more insulting to say about Asterdam?? Ron Wood is an artist and Im sure he cant take criticism but to insult people in Amsterdam ´wit stereotypes about hookers and drugs??

BV, has Open G mailed you? Was he upset?

Can't we just close this threat. I have the slight feeling that some don't understand the point and some just are freaking out after a couple of beers or joints or both.