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TheflyingDutchman
World Rapid Chess tournament in Warsaw delayed because top chess players catched Covid.

[www.youtube.com]

I have been following the Chess championships in Warsaw. It seems like they did not hear about covid-19 at all. The players share the boards, sitting face to face for a long time, no mask, they touch the same chess pieces, and they work in something that looks like a crowded press and shopping mall.

Now they talk about several more positive covid-19 test results, and they will try to figure out how to handle the games and rules of how to qualify and cancel games now canceled. Who should isolate? Who should quarantine? Probably quite a few of the players. It is a big mess.

Nakamura did not do the test in order to play, he did his test in order to be able to fly home. They do not have any bubble or covid-19 awareness at all in Warsaw. So this is just an example of how covid-19 will be like during the next few months. You can not stop it, but you may slow down the spread.

Hikaru Nakamura Twitter message about his positive covid-19 test

Bjornulf

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bv

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TheflyingDutchman
World Rapid Chess tournament in Warsaw delayed because top chess players catched Covid.

[www.youtube.com]

I have been following the Chess championships in Warsaw. It seems like they did not hear about covid-19 at all. The players share the boards, sitting face to face for a long time, no mask, they touch the same chess pieces, and they work in something that looks like a crowded press and shopping mall.

Now they talk about several more positive covid-19 test results, and they will try to figure out how to handle the games and rules of how to qualify and cancel games now canceled. Who should isolate? Who should quarantine? Probably quite a few of the players. It is a big mess.

Nakamura did not do the test in order to play, he did his test in order to be able to fly home. They do not have any bubble or covid-19 awareness at all in Warsaw. So this is just an example of how covid-19 will be like during the next few months. You can not stop it, but you may slow down the spread.

Hikaru Nakamura Twitter message about his positive covid-19 test

Yes, it's scary. Magnus want to play though, it seems.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-30 15:37 by TheflyingDutchman.

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terraplane
So does that same logic apply to overweight people who have a heart attack or smokers with lung cancer? They shouldn't receive treatment because they made their choice?

no - because obesity or drug addiction are not a free decision. Not being vaccinated, however, is not an addiction. It is more like refusing necessary medical treatment or refusing to take your prescribed medicine

Also, I didn't say that there are easy solutions to difficult problems. My point is just that making decisions is only a meaningful concept if it has consequences and responsibilities.

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bv

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
World Rapid Chess tournament in Warsaw delayed because top chess players catched Covid.

[www.youtube.com]

I have been following the Chess championships in Warsaw. It seems like they did not hear about covid-19 at all. The players share the boards, sitting face to face for a long time, no mask, they touch the same chess pieces, and they work in something that looks like a crowded press and shopping mall.

Now they talk about several more positive covid-19 test results, and they will try to figure out how to handle the games and rules of how to qualify and cancel games now canceled. Who should isolate? Who should quarantine? Probably quite a few of the players. It is a big mess.

Nakamura did not do the test in order to play, he did his test in order to be able to fly home. They do not have any bubble or covid-19 awareness at all in Warsaw. So this is just an example of how covid-19 will be like during the next few months. You can not stop it, but you may slow down the spread.

Hikaru Nakamura Twitter message about his positive covid-19 test

and the 'funny´/strange thing is that chess in the only sports where social distancing is no problem at all…

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slewan

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bv

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
World Rapid Chess tournament in Warsaw delayed because top chess players catched Covid.

[www.youtube.com]

I have been following the Chess championships in Warsaw. It seems like they did not hear about covid-19 at all. The players share the boards, sitting face to face for a long time, no mask, they touch the same chess pieces, and they work in something that looks like a crowded press and shopping mall.

Now they talk about several more positive covid-19 test results, and they will try to figure out how to handle the games and rules of how to qualify and cancel games now canceled. Who should isolate? Who should quarantine? Probably quite a few of the players. It is a big mess.

Nakamura did not do the test in order to play, he did his test in order to be able to fly home. They do not have any bubble or covid-19 awareness at all in Warsaw. So this is just an example of how covid-19 will be like during the next few months. You can not stop it, but you may slow down the spread.

Hikaru Nakamura Twitter message about his positive covid-19 test

and the 'funny´/strange thing is that chess in the only sports where social distancing is no problem at all…

Chess players don't suffer from the drawnicron virus it seems.

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slewan

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terraplane
So does that same logic apply to overweight people who have a heart attack or smokers with lung cancer? They shouldn't receive treatment because they made their choice?

no - because obesity or drug addiction are not a free decision. Not being vaccinated, however, is not an addiction. It is more like refusing necessary medical treatment or refusing to take your prescribed medicine

Also, I didn't say that there are easy solutions to difficult problems. My point is just that making decisions is only a meaningful concept if it has consequences and responsibilities.

Also, the effect of COVid on the medical system, compared to the effects of of medical issues related to smoking, drinking, drugs, obesity or carelessness, is orders of magnitude different. None of those issues, individually or collectively, are filling hospitals, burning out crucial medical staff, or preventing treatment of other medical conditions. Context, please.

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SomeTorontoGirl

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slewan

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terraplane
So does that same logic apply to overweight people who have a heart attack or smokers with lung cancer? They shouldn't receive treatment because they made their choice?

no - because obesity or drug addiction are not a free decision. Not being vaccinated, however, is not an addiction. It is more like refusing necessary medical treatment or refusing to take your prescribed medicine

Also, I didn't say that there are easy solutions to difficult problems. My point is just that making decisions is only a meaningful concept if it has consequences and responsibilities.

Also, the effect of COVid on the medical system, compared to the effects of of medical issues related to smoking, drinking, drugs, obesity or carelessness, is orders of magnitude different. None of those issues, individually or collectively, are filling hospitals, burning out crucial medical staff, or preventing treatment of other medical conditions. Context, please.

absolutely right!
Still it's a problem people who refuse to get vaccinated demand free choice but at the same time refuse accept the consequences of their choice (individual as well as social consequences). This is more or less the same as having the cake and eat it too.

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slewan

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terraplane
So does that same logic apply to overweight people who have a heart attack or smokers with lung cancer? They shouldn't receive treatment because they made their choice?

no - because obesity or drug addiction are not a free decision. Not being vaccinated, however, is not an addiction. It is more like refusing necessary medical treatment or refusing to take your prescribed medicine

Also, I didn't say that there are easy solutions to difficult problems. My point is just that making decisions is only a meaningful concept if it has consequences and responsibilities.

Have you indulged in narcotics yourself?

As someone who has enjoyed very much a hedonistic lifestyle including taking many narcotics which ultimately led to a self induced cardiac arrest at the age of 19. I can tell you it was absolutely my choice to take drugs and I certainly didn't consider myself a so called addict.I also made the decision straight away from that day onwards to never take drugs again because I would otherwise likely wind up dead.I smoked for 25 years until I received a phone call one evening from a doctor who had just taken a look at my chest X ray advising me to stop smoking immediately because I had a minor lung issue which could develop into much more serious complications if I continued to smoke.I finished the phone call with the doctor whilst smoking one last cigarette for enjoyment and I have never smoked since.

Nate

Delta Airlines added a $200 cost per month to employees without a vaccine, deducted from their pay check monthly. They say it cost on average $50,000 for the company if an employee get hospitalized with covid-19, so it makes sense. Also, it is probably a better solution than the United Airlines way, they fired non-vaccinated.

There is a lot of anger vs non-vaccinated, as it seems. Some are just selfish, others are afraid, some do not trust the authorities, no wonder, there have been quite a few not so good experiences from vaccine projects in history.

The non-vaccinated will get covid-19 one day, probably in a more worse version that for those who are vaccinated, so I don't see any reason why we should force anyone to vaccinate. We will all be immune during 2022 anyway. If they work in the health system, you may keep them away from elderly and weak people, but they should still be respected for whatever reason they have of not accepting the vaccine.

Bjornulf

On Monday the U.S. CDC cut isolation restrictions for Americans who catch the virus from 10 days to 5 days.
They also shortened the time that close contacts need to quarantine.

Why is this not being discussed at all on this thread?

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nellcote'71
On Monday the U.S. CDC cut isolation restrictions for Americans who catch the virus from 10 days to 5 days.
They also shortened the time that close contacts need to quarantine.

Why is this not being discussed at all on this thread?

Stupid off course, but the messages sent out are that omicron is "not such a bad mutation", so one can allow more infections (?!?). It could even "help" to quickly create mass immunity ?!?. There have been simple calculations however which show that a milder virus, which multiplies much, much faster, will in the end fill hospitals even more than a "dying" tougher (or do you say "more tough" in English?) virus (like delta). Confusion all over. Total panic in France against a "let's have fun" approach in Belgium. Did I read that there were more than half a million infections in one day in the USA? Ah, who cares. Let's have fun! (sick joke, off course)


I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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Nate

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slewan

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terraplane
So does that same logic apply to overweight people who have a heart attack or smokers with lung cancer? They shouldn't receive treatment because they made their choice?

no - because obesity or drug addiction are not a free decision. Not being vaccinated, however, is not an addiction. It is more like refusing necessary medical treatment or refusing to take your prescribed medicine

Also, I didn't say that there are easy solutions to difficult problems. My point is just that making decisions is only a meaningful concept if it has consequences and responsibilities.

Have you indulged in narcotics yourself?

As someone who has enjoyed very much a hedonistic lifestyle including taking many narcotics which ultimately led to a self induced cardiac arrest at the age of 19. I can tell you it was absolutely my choice to take drugs and I certainly didn't consider myself a so called addict.I also made the decision straight away from that day onwards to never take drugs again because I would otherwise likely wind up dead.I smoked for 25 years until I received a phone call one evening from a doctor who had just taken a look at my chest X ray advising me to stop smoking immediately because I had a minor lung issue which could develop into much more serious complications if I continued to smoke.I finished the phone call with the doctor whilst smoking one last cigarette for enjoyment and I have never smoked since.

Nate

Exactly. Drinking, smoking and using drugs are choices. Is it extremely difficult for some to quit? Of course, but it is a choice, no matter how hard it may be.

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NashvilleBlues

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Nate

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slewan

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terraplane
So does that same logic apply to overweight people who have a heart attack or smokers with lung cancer? They shouldn't receive treatment because they made their choice?

no - because obesity or drug addiction are not a free decision. Not being vaccinated, however, is not an addiction. It is more like refusing necessary medical treatment or refusing to take your prescribed medicine

Also, I didn't say that there are easy solutions to difficult problems. My point is just that making decisions is only a meaningful concept if it has consequences and responsibilities.

Have you indulged in narcotics yourself?

As someone who has enjoyed very much a hedonistic lifestyle including taking many narcotics which ultimately led to a self induced cardiac arrest at the age of 19. I can tell you it was absolutely my choice to take drugs and I certainly didn't consider myself a so called addict.I also made the decision straight away from that day onwards to never take drugs again because I would otherwise likely wind up dead.I smoked for 25 years until I received a phone call one evening from a doctor who had just taken a look at my chest X ray advising me to stop smoking immediately because I had a minor lung issue which could develop into much more serious complications if I continued to smoke.I finished the phone call with the doctor whilst smoking one last cigarette for enjoyment and I have never smoked since.

Nate

Exactly. Drinking, smoking and using drugs are choices. Is it extremely difficult for some to quit? Of course, but it is a choice, no matter how hard it may be.

We live (or at least most of us do) in a society where people make stupid decisions CONSTANTLY.

Driving while intoxicated, skiing in the off limits zone, picking a fight in a bar.

A reasonable person shouldn't make the poor/risky decision, but we do it constantly.

The 'safety net' that catches us during these lapses is there for everyone, much as it is frustrating to see people make these poor, ill-informed choices.

So...it's human to make these stupid decisions, as it is human to forgive and still provide assistance, despite our annoyance and frustration at all the additional pain those decisions cause.

Consider that those that don't heed the advice will disproportionately pay a VERY heavy price for that poor decision.

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nellcote'71
On Monday the U.S. CDC cut isolation restrictions for Americans who catch the virus from 10 days to 5 days.
They also shortened the time that close contacts need to quarantine.

Why is this not being discussed at all on this thread?

The isolation time in Norway used to be 2 days after you had a positive covid-19 test result. Then, when omicron arrived, as from Nov 28 or so, they extended the isolation time from 2 days into six - 6 - days.

This is how covid-19 spread, mainly as we know from Delta, and the other earlier variants: You are most contagious 1-2 days BEFORE you get symptoms, until one day AFTER you get symptoms. So rather than using the day of when you test positive, the isolation should, like they now state in Norway, be counted from the day you have symptoms, if you get symptoms.

If there is a large number of covid-19 positives, and many in isolation, then everything will stop, including work, hospitals, schools, shops etc. It does not make any sense to keep a lot of non-contagious people isolated. It will ruin the economy, and close down a lot of work places.

USA do now have 250,000 people testing positive for covid-19 EVERY DAY. If all these should stay in 10 days isolation, for no reason, then 2.5 million people will be out of work at all times, plus all those who depend on their work, like bus drivers, teachers, intensive care workers and so on. It seems like a smart move to have 5 days isolation, we have 6 in Norway, so it is all based on experience and science.

If you are worried about getting covid-19, then get vaccinated, and wear a mask. They can not close down everything at this stage of the pandemic. Omicron will be all over in 2-3 months time.

Quarantine and isolation due to the coronavirus (Helsenorge - FHI)

For how long do you have to be in isolation
If you develop symptoms you can end the isolation when a minimum of 6 days has passed from when the symptoms appeared, and you have not had a fever for at least 24 hours (without having taken antipyretics against fever). This applies whether you are vaccinated or not.

Bjornulf

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nellcote'71
On Monday the U.S. CDC cut isolation restrictions for Americans who catch the virus from 10 days to 5 days.
They also shortened the time that close contacts need to quarantine.

Why is this not being discussed at all on this thread?

Most reports, like your quote, leave out the "asymptomatic" part of the CDC recommendation.

A big omission really.
Also believe they made an error in not recommending a negative test before leaving quarantine, and am betting they revise that recommendation. Worth noting the reasons for the change as well.. noted in the article below.


"U.S. health officials are cutting isolation restrictions for asymptomatic Americans who test positive for the coronavirus and shortening the time that close contacts have to quarantine.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials said the guidance is in keeping with growing evidence that people with the coronavirus are most infectious in the two days before and three days after symptoms develop.

The decision also was driven by a recent surge in COVID-19 cases, propelled by the omicron variant.

Early research suggests omicron may cause milder illnesses than earlier versions of the coronavirus. But the sheer number of people becoming infected — and therefore having to isolate or quarantine — threatens to crush the ability of hospitals, airlines and other businesses to stay open, experts say.

[www.usnews.com]

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MisterDDDD

A big omission really.
Also believe they made an error in not recommending a negative test before leaving quarantine, and am betting they revise that recommendation. Worth noting the reasons for the change as well.. noted in the article below.

My sister who due to her profession is a bit of an expert on COVID says that they are not recommending retesting with PCR because it can still show positive for weeks after the last infection. Antigen tests, are accurate for verifying positive tests, but often show false negatives.

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Nate

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CindyC
Sometorontogirl - thank you for post that article. That is a perspective that I haven't given much consideration to. I sympathize with that family in their frustration, and can only imagine how helpless they must have felt seeing their loved one getting sicker and sicker and it makes me really angry. It makes me have irrational thoughts such as refusing to give a hospital bed to an unvaxxed covid patient if there is not enough space. They made their choice, and took their chances, others should shouldn't suffer as a result.

So you are ok with refusing treatment to people who require it due to choices they made themselves?
Nate

Unfortunately, it appears to have come to that.

We are now in a situation with extremely limited resources. If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. Obviously there will need to be exceptions due to the reasoning for not getting vaccinated, but if it's completely due to personal preference, then yes I am ok with it.

There has to be a prioritizing should the capacity become overloaded as ugly as that may seem for the needy. Let's not forget those who have been infected the past 6 months and did not feel a requirement for getting vaccinated. Should those above 70 be prioritized compared to those under? Tough choices and money invariably enters the equation as well, with enough you will always be able to find treatment. Intubation seems like a nightmare only a step away from death, I might prefer to take my chances without that treatment!

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CindyC

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MisterDDDD

A big omission really.
Also believe they made an error in not recommending a negative test before leaving quarantine, and am betting they revise that recommendation. Worth noting the reasons for the change as well.. noted in the article below.

My sister who due to her profession is a bit of an expert on COVID says that they are not recommending retesting with PCR because it can still show positive for weeks after the last infection. Antigen tests, are accurate for verifying positive tests, but often show false negatives.

That is correct. Once you have tested positive, you will often test positive for a long time, even months, even if you are not infectious. You may not test your way out of isolation, because you will produce false positives. As long as you do not have fever, and it is more than 3-4 days since the symptoms started, there is no reason for isolating. The following is from an NHS document about this:

Testing within 90 days of a positive PCR test (NHS)

Following a substantial clinical review of the latest evidence and
testing data, we are now changing the advice for retesting within 90
days of a positive. From now on, if someone tests positive with a PCR
test, they should not be tested using PCR or LFD for 90 days, unless
they develop new symptoms during this time, in which case they
should be retested immediately using PCR. This 90 day period is from
the initial onset of symptoms or, if asymptomatic when tested, their
positive test result.

The previous policy to continue LFD testing following a positive PCR
result was because although very unlikely, it is possible to be reinfected
within 90 days. However based on the latest testing data and
clinical advice, the policy has now changed.

The clinical view is that during this 90 day window from a positive test,
given the low rate of reinfection during this window, it is significantly
more likely that a positive LFD test would be a false result, rather than
someone being re-infected, causing people to isolate unnecessarily.
Therefore we are now stopping the regular testing using LFD during
this 90 day period. The individual should return to the regular LFD and
PCR regime once 90 days has passed.

This means that the policy for retesting within 90 days for Adult Social
Care is now the same as the policy for NHS staff. The policy also
applies to professionals visiting a care home who have received a
positive PCR result in the last 90 days.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-30 19:40 by bv.

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skytrench
There has to be a prioritizing should the capacity become overloaded as ugly as that may seem for the needy. Let's not forget those who have been infected the past 6 months and did not feel a requirement for getting vaccinated. Should those above 70 be prioritized compared to those under? Tough choices and money invariably enters the equation as well, with enough you will always be able to find treatment. Intubation seems like a nightmare only a step away from death, I might prefer to take my chances without that treatment!

If you have been infected during the past half year then you do not need to worry about omicron. Being infected with covid-19 is working a bit like getting the vaccine, i.e. your body is building up a defense, which will last half a year or more, then it will gradually get weaker over time. Sure it is a lot more dangerous to get infected by covid-19 vs getting the vaccine, but still, you will be protected. Then later on, more than half a year after the infection, you should get a booster vaccine shot of course. It is like the flu vaccine wise, another seasonal shot every 6-12 months.

Bjornulf

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CindyC

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Nate

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CindyC
Sometorontogirl - thank you for post that article. That is a perspective that I haven't given much consideration to. I sympathize with that family in their frustration, and can only imagine how helpless they must have felt seeing their loved one getting sicker and sicker and it makes me really angry. It makes me have irrational thoughts such as refusing to give a hospital bed to an unvaxxed covid patient if there is not enough space. They made their choice, and took their chances, others should shouldn't suffer as a result.

So you are ok with refusing treatment to people who require it due to choices they made themselves?
Nate

Unfortunately, it appears to have come to that.

We are now in a situation with extremely limited resources. If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. Obviously there will need to be exceptions due to the reasoning for not getting vaccinated, but if it's completely due to personal preference, then yes I am ok with it.

You haven't understood my question so let's put it another way for example you have an accident whilst taking part in some sport and your leg has to be amputated unless the doctor performs surgery imminently but as it was your choice to take part in the sport instead of staying at home and baking a cake you will be refused treatment and your leg will end up in the trash bin because someone else more deserving than you has taken priority.

I personally couldn't care less if these people live or die and if it was up to me I would give priority to someone with the body of Salma Hayek over someone with the sex appeal of a potato but fortunately for society such decisions aren't taken by people like me.

Nate

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Nate

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CindyC

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Nate

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CindyC
Sometorontogirl - thank you for post that article. That is a perspective that I haven't given much consideration to. I sympathize with that family in their frustration, and can only imagine how helpless they must have felt seeing their loved one getting sicker and sicker and it makes me really angry. It makes me have irrational thoughts such as refusing to give a hospital bed to an unvaxxed covid patient if there is not enough space. They made their choice, and took their chances, others should shouldn't suffer as a result.

So you are ok with refusing treatment to people who require it due to choices they made themselves?
Nate

Unfortunately, it appears to have come to that.

We are now in a situation with extremely limited resources. If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. Obviously there will need to be exceptions due to the reasoning for not getting vaccinated, but if it's completely due to personal preference, then yes I am ok with it.

You haven't understood my question so let's put it another way for example you have an accident whilst taking part in some sport and your leg has to be amputated unless the doctor performs surgery imminently but as it was your choice to take part in the sport instead of staying at home and baking a cake you will be refused treatment and your leg will end up in the trash bin because someone else more deserving than you has taken priority.

I personally couldn't care less if these people live or die and if it was up to me I would give priority to someone with the body of Salma Hayek over someone with the sex appeal of a potato but fortunately for society such decisions aren't taken by people like me.

Nate

I think i was pretty clear when I wrote "If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. "

Meaning, I am referring only to people seeking COVID relief that were not vaccinated

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CindyC

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MisterDDDD

A big omission really.
Also believe they made an error in not recommending a negative test before leaving quarantine, and am betting they revise that recommendation. Worth noting the reasons for the change as well.. noted in the article below.

My sister who due to her profession is a bit of an expert on COVID says that they are not recommending retesting with PCR because it can still show positive for weeks after the last infection. Antigen tests, are accurate for verifying positive tests, but often show false negatives.

Good to know.. seems to be the primary complaint amongst those opposed to the new guidelines.

Messaging is not ideal with this new CDC guidance that much is certain.

Delta's CEO asked the CDC for a 5-day isolation. Some flight attendants feel at risk

"The problem is that we are admitting that we're going to put infectious people back into the workplace or on our planes," - Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants

Covid19

The newest Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance shortening the isolation period for those with COVID-19 from 10 days to five days has led to a growing concern about its impact on essential workers such as nurses and airline staff. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said the decision to change the guidelines was, in part, to "keep the critical functions of society open and operating." "We started to see challenges with ... airline flights and other areas. We started first with doing the health care workers last week to make sure that we could make — keep our hospitals functioning safely and open," Walensky told NPR on Tuesday. The CDC says its decision is also based on the science showing that a majority of COVID-19 illnesses get passed around in the first few days of the infection. Other public health experts say that's true — but there's still a chance that transmission to others could happen after the five-day benchmark. There's also concern that mask adherence won't be properly followed, and health experts, including Walensky, have said wearing a mask from the Day 5 to Day 10 period is critical for the new guidance to work.

Flight attendants' concerns

But some essential workers, such as flight attendants who are at higher risk of exposure to more people, say they are hoping their workplaces implement longer isolation periods, rather than following CDC guidance. "There are holes here that give us a lot of unknowns and a lot of uncertainty, and that is the last thing we need," Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants, tells NPR, pointing out that uncertainty has led to violent outbursts from airline passengers, putting flight attendants at risk. Nelson is concerned there's an emphasis in the new guidance on protecting the economy over public health. "The problem is that we are admitting that we're going to put infectious people back into the workplace or on our planes," Nelson said on Morning Edition Wednesday. "We're very concerned about this, and we are pressing the airlines to have much better policies than what the CDC is giving us."

What Delta's CEO wanted

Nelson's position is at odds with some airlines leaders. The CDC's decision comes days after Delta Airline's CEO sent Walensky a letter advocating for a shorter isolation period. In the letter, CEO Ed Bastian — along with the airline's medical adviser and chief health officer — asks Walensky to consider shortening the isolation period to five days for those who experience a breakthrough infection. "With the rapid spread of the Omicron variant, the 10-day isolation for those who are fully vaccinated may significantly impact our workforce and operations," the Delta officials write. The airline was among several in the U.S. that experienced thousands of cancellations over Christmas weekend, in part because airline staff were calling out sick with COVID-19. On Wednesday, a spokesperson for Delta reiterated its support for the new guidance in a statement to NPR. "Delta has always, without exception, put the health and safety of our people and customers ahead of all else throughout the pandemic," the statement said. It added, "Delta has and continues to follow the science-backed approach of the CDC."

The CDC's balancing act

Walensky, in her interview with NPR, said, "We can't take science in a vacuum. We have to put science in the context of how it can be implemented in a functional society. So we always do that," she said. And the guidelines do rely on science — and people's adherence to them. "The vast majority of transmission happens in that first five days and there's probably a little bit that might happen after those five days, which is why we've really put in the strong recommendation to mask those last five days," she said. "And I will reiterate that this guidance only works if people follow it and mask for those last five days."

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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bv
Delta Airlines added a $200 cost per month to employees without a vaccine, deducted from their pay check monthly. They say it cost on average $50,000 for the company if an employee get hospitalized with covid-19, so it makes sense. Also, it is probably a better solution than the United Airlines way, they fired non-vaccinated.

There is a lot of anger vs non-vaccinated, as it seems. Some are just selfish, others are afraid, some do not trust the authorities, no wonder, there have been quite a few not so good experiences from vaccine projects in history.

The non-vaccinated will get covid-19 one day, probably in a more worse version that for those who are vaccinated, so I don't see any reason why we should force anyone to vaccinate. We will all be immune during 2022 anyway. If they work in the health system, you may keep them away from elderly and weak people, but they should still be respected for whatever reason they have of not accepting the vaccine.

Thanks BV for that last paragraph. Finally words of reason.

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CindyC

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Nate

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CindyC

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Nate

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CindyC
Sometorontogirl - thank you for post that article. That is a perspective that I haven't given much consideration to. I sympathize with that family in their frustration, and can only imagine how helpless they must have felt seeing their loved one getting sicker and sicker and it makes me really angry. It makes me have irrational thoughts such as refusing to give a hospital bed to an unvaxxed covid patient if there is not enough space. They made their choice, and took their chances, others should shouldn't suffer as a result.

So you are ok with refusing treatment to people who require it due to choices they made themselves?
Nate

Unfortunately, it appears to have come to that.

We are now in a situation with extremely limited resources. If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. Obviously there will need to be exceptions due to the reasoning for not getting vaccinated, but if it's completely due to personal preference, then yes I am ok with it.

You haven't understood my question so let's put it another way for example you have an accident whilst taking part in some sport and your leg has to be amputated unless the doctor performs surgery imminently but as it was your choice to take part in the sport instead of staying at home and baking a cake you will be refused treatment and your leg will end up in the trash bin because someone else more deserving than you has taken priority.

I personally couldn't care less if these people live or die and if it was up to me I would give priority to someone with the body of Salma Hayek over someone with the sex appeal of a potato but fortunately for society such decisions aren't taken by people like me.

Nate

I think i was pretty clear when I wrote "If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. "

Meaning, I am referring only to people seeking COVID relief that were not vaccinated

Agree.
Unfortunately (cause I'm old), the only protocols given real serious consideration so far are those related to age.

Which makes sense..
All things being equal I would want a younger person treated before me, but if they were an un/anti vaxxed adult covid patient..
it would pisss me off.

Health workers are professional. They work to save lives. They do not ask if you are smart or stupid. They do not ask if you were drunk when you drove that electric scooter and smashed your head into the brick wall. They do not ask if or why you had a big party without a mask with many others who do not vaccinate. They just do their work to save lives and health.

Our job - our work - right now, is to make the number of people who need care at hospitals as low as possible, while omicron go through the population. We may do so by keeping a distance, by wearing masks, and by getting vaccinated. Then we should trust our authorities, and support their work in making hospitals able to treat everyone who need care during the next weeks and months.

Bjornulf

Perhaps priority for medical treatment should be decided by what music you have downloaded on your phone.If you arrive at the emergency room with the latest Ed Sheeran download you should be sent back home immediately

Nate

Quote
Nate
Perhaps priority for medical treatment should be decided by what music you have downloaded on your phone.If you arrive at the emergency room with the latest Ed Sheeran download you should be sent back home immediately

Nate

That's an excellent recommendation.

Sports related from the NBA:

Hawks coach Nate McMillan wants season paused over massive COVID outbreak

Covid19

With players entering health and safety protocols seemingly constantly, and cases are rising at a record rate across the country, Atlanta Hawks coach Nate McMillan thinks that the NBA needs to take a break. “Of course,” he said, the season should pause so teams can get healthy and regroup. “I think that way, but it’s not up to me,” he said Tuesday, via the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “The league is trying to keep this season going. Of course, it’s really frustrating for us and a lot of other teams. But there isn’t anything we can do other than follow the direction of the league. We are trying to bring in players to replace guys who go into protocol. It’s a real challenge, and the timing really couldn’t be any worse for us to start a six-game road trip with a number of our guys in protocol.” Though McMillan would love to see a break, NBA commissioner Adam Silver has said that there are no plans to pause or stop the season — something the NHL did earlier this month.

Over 170 NBA players or coaches have entered the health and safety protocols in recent weeks, which has prompted teams to scramble and sign G League players to 10 day deals just to try and fill a roster. Thunder coach Mark Daigneault was the latest coach to enter protocols on Tuesday, joining Suns coach Monty Williams, Blazers coach Chauncey Billups, Lakers coach Frank Vogel and Bulls coach Billy Donovan. The NBA and the players association agreed to a new policy this week that allows players to return after just five days instead of 10 after testing positive. The league is also requiring all teams to host a booster event by the end of the year to try and get as many people fully vaccinated as possible. About 97% of the league is fully vaccinated. The United States is averaging a record-high 301,000 new cases each day, according to The New York Times, which is a 153% increase over the past two weeks. There were more than 488,000 new cases on Wednesday alone, too, which also set a new record. As of Wednesday night, about 71% of Americans aged 12 and up are fully vaccinated.

The Hawks fell to the Chicago Bulls 131-117 on Wednesday night, which marked the first of a six-game road trip. They currently have 12 players in protocols. “It’s just a sick feeling,” McMillan said, via the Journal-Constitution. “The timing is definitely bad to be losing guys when you are going on a six-game road trip. Every day you are just wondering what’s going to happen next. You walk into the office this morning knowing that you are already down players and you get the news that three of your players and a couple coaches go down. “They have to go into protocol and we have to continue on.”

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......