Tell Me :
Talk
I know ……….
ROCKMAN
Well summed up
.
As folks have said...any calming of the waters now is perhaps a little too late to have any real artistic results
But maybe they've both realised that life really is too short to spend time sulking over the trivial stuff...and it's better to be mates than adversaries .
This says it all, I’m sure in 1989 people were saying “great Mick and Keith are friends again.” They’re not of course, they’re coworkers who get along at work.
I asked the question a couple of years ago here- can you find a picture since the 80s of them together in a non working environment,I think someone found one, don’t think there was a second or third.
Good point!
As fan, as kid of a band, we want it so much that we overlook reality.
Yeah little Timmy always wants Mom and Dad to love each other forever!
We fans are more or less the same.
The story is more simple and a bit more sordid... When Keef got out of his junk-induced haze he started to feel slightly scornful of"over-rated" Jagger.
When WWIII broke out which led to a solo career for both men, Keef realized that
- he was much less famous and successful as a solo performer than he was as a member of the Stones.
- he wasn't much of a businessman (his 1988 tour cost him money).
So in 1989 he came back to Mick with a renewed respect for Mick, his talent at holding a stage and his prodigious ability to make money.
Still the bitterness (and jealousy?) would pop out again from time to time...
I think this is a part of it, for sure. But I also think they have realized that, this is what the fans want to see. Cynically, you can't help but notice that the moments they spend together onstage are very scripted and specific -- the "Come On In My Kitchen" bit in "Midnight Rambler," which is clearly an homage to their early mutual love of raw blues that started the band. The sharing the mic on "Dead Flowers" or whatever song in the acoustic set, recalls the songwriting and their Everly-Brothers-inspired singing in the past. The fist bump during the introductions, is part of the ritual now. Also the moments when the two of them "share" the center stage, entrance to the catwalk ramp during the buildup at the end of "Satisfaction," it is clearly recognizing their roles as co-creators of one of the great iconic songs of the 20th century.
There are still those moments when Keith still glare icily at Mick when he walks past him, there are moments where Mick horses around with Ronnie and flatly ignores Keith onstage. But it is nice to see them being a little more friendly and acknowledging how much they mean to each other.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-05 19:36 by TurningToGold2.
Thanks. Yeah, maybe they both realize that nobody really changes so you'd might as well just accept their faults and move on and deal with it. Keith isn't going to start getting into experimental dance grooves and Mick isn't going to keep trying to make Exile over and over again....
It's all too much...….. I wanna go and hang-out with Jack and Jim ……..
ROCKMAN
I agree that they are likely not really "friends" in the sense of having much inclination to spend time together when it's not necessary. But in their case I think you'd be hard pressed to find many photos of them together in a non-working environment at any point in their careers. Their entire relationship is based on music. Even back in the 60s they seemed to move in different social circles.
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Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
caschimann
()
Date: September 4, 2019 13:59
I see the last two show-final-pictures (and I think there were some more through this tour) I look at Mick & Keith in the middle, arm in arm, smiling at echo other.
I see seem sharing the micro on the b-stage several times.
I see their so much more improved interaction during the whole shows.
I see their looks.
Yes I am romantic.
Yes I know fans - like kids who want peace between their parents -want to have peace between their idols.
BUT here is the question:
Are Mick & Keith getting along better than in the decades before?
Did they get back to like and enjoy each other since 2012?
Year by year, tour by tour a bit more?
I see seem sharing the micro on the b-stage several times.
I see their so much more improved interaction during the whole shows.
I see their looks.
Yes I am romantic.
Yes I know fans - like kids who want peace between their parents -want to have peace between their idols.
BUT here is the question:
Are Mick & Keith getting along better than in the decades before?
Did they get back to like and enjoy each other since 2012?
Year by year, tour by tour a bit more?
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: September 4, 2019 14:17
Anything else would be stupid. They are not getting younger. Nice to see. Camaraderie. Let bygones be bygones.
I don't think this involves the artistic or song writing bit though, I'm afraid. Too late for that.
I don't think this involves the artistic or song writing bit though, I'm afraid. Too late for that.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: September 4, 2019 14:27
I know ……….
ROCKMAN
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Rokyfan
()
Date: September 4, 2019 14:52
They get along fine on stage, when they are working. Other than that they don't see each other except for the occasional business meeting. But they do enjoy playing together more than in the past it seems.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: September 4, 2019 16:40
as long as Keith doesnt do any more 'books'..
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: September 4, 2019 19:05
mick and keith have known each other since primary school, and have been a huge part of each others lives, its good to see them together and enjoying the occasion but i doubt they will ever be best of mates, in the old fashioned sense of hanging around together, going to pubs, getting drunk together etc.
And i doubt they will work together to the extent they did in the past, lets just enjoy what they do at the present.
its good they seem to have buried the past though, they also know the stones are nearing the end and what they have done for decades will no longer happen.
And i doubt they will work together to the extent they did in the past, lets just enjoy what they do at the present.
its good they seem to have buried the past though, they also know the stones are nearing the end and what they have done for decades will no longer happen.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: September 4, 2019 19:28
Keith wants to be closer to Mick but at the same time can't stop disapproving of him and his tastes, decisions, and social circles. Mick's response is "you can't be judging me all the time and still be my friend." This has been going on for decades and it's sort of hilarious that Keith can't stop himself from being the self-appointed cop in Mick's life.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: September 5, 2019 00:37
Good point, Keith just can't help himself can he ! I remember being a bit shocked when they let us listen in on the rehearsals in Bondy after Keith gestured to us (something like tapping his index to his temple) while walking back to his spot after Mick made the same mistake twice while rehearsing "One More Shot" (of all songs). Probably sweet revenge for him not to be the one messing things up for a change...On the other hand, when Charlie messed up the end of "That's How Strong My Love Is" twice (possibly three times) they were all smiles and did their best to help him get it right.
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
caschimann
()
Date: September 5, 2019 14:40
Interesting. And refreshing. The first fans for me, who see the Keith-Mick-thing not only from the old and used „All Mick’s fault-perspective“.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: September 5, 2019 15:08
Quote
Send It To me
Keith wants to be closer to Mick but at the same time can't stop disapproving of him and his tastes, decisions, and social circles. Mick's response is "you can't be judging me all the time and still be my friend." This has been going on for decades and it's sort of hilarious that Keith can't stop himself from being the self-appointed cop in Mick's life.
Well summed up
.As folks have said...any calming of the waters now is perhaps a little too late to have any real artistic results
But maybe they've both realised that life really is too short to spend time sulking over the trivial stuff...and it's better to be mates than adversaries .
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: September 5, 2019 17:27
Quote
Rockman
I know ……….
This says it all, I’m sure in 1989 people were saying “great Mick and Keith are friends again.” They’re not of course, they’re coworkers who get along at work.
I asked the question a couple of years ago here- can you find a picture since the 80s of them together in a non working environment,I think someone found one, don’t think there was a second or third.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
caschimann
()
Date: September 5, 2019 17:57
Quote
lem motlowQuote
Rockman
I know ……….
I asked the question a couple of years ago here- can you find a picture since the 80s of them together in a non working environment,
Good point!
As fan, as kid of a band, we want it so much that we overlook reality.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: September 5, 2019 18:28
Quote
caschimann
Good point!
As fan, as kid of a band, we want it so much that we overlook reality.
Yeah little Timmy always wants Mom and Dad to love each other forever!
We fans are more or less the same.
The story is more simple and a bit more sordid... When Keef got out of his junk-induced haze he started to feel slightly scornful of"over-rated" Jagger.
When WWIII broke out which led to a solo career for both men, Keef realized that
- he was much less famous and successful as a solo performer than he was as a member of the Stones.
- he wasn't much of a businessman (his 1988 tour cost him money).
So in 1989 he came back to Mick with a renewed respect for Mick, his talent at holding a stage and his prodigious ability to make money.
Still the bitterness (and jealousy?) would pop out again from time to time...
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Ket
()
Date: September 5, 2019 18:37
I think that perhaps performing these recent small tours since 2012 they don't get on each others nerves as much as the huge ones.
Purely conjecture of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-05 18:39 by Ket.
Purely conjecture of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-05 18:39 by Ket.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
rebelrebel
()
Date: September 5, 2019 19:23
I think the turning point was in 2014 with the death of L'Wren. Keith was clearly supportive and Mick appreciative. The on-stage relationship seems to improve with every tour to the dizzy heights we see now. I'm sure both realise that there is no point in taking three months out of your life every year at their ages to live in an awkward atmosphere. Sure they probably hardly speak outside of tours but they are still spending 25% of their lives together for some years now.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
TurningToGold2
()
Date: September 5, 2019 19:34
Quote
Spud
But maybe they've both realised that life really is too short to spend time sulking over the trivial stuff...and it's better to be mates than adversaries .
I think this is a part of it, for sure. But I also think they have realized that, this is what the fans want to see. Cynically, you can't help but notice that the moments they spend together onstage are very scripted and specific -- the "Come On In My Kitchen" bit in "Midnight Rambler," which is clearly an homage to their early mutual love of raw blues that started the band. The sharing the mic on "Dead Flowers" or whatever song in the acoustic set, recalls the songwriting and their Everly-Brothers-inspired singing in the past. The fist bump during the introductions, is part of the ritual now. Also the moments when the two of them "share" the center stage, entrance to the catwalk ramp during the buildup at the end of "Satisfaction," it is clearly recognizing their roles as co-creators of one of the great iconic songs of the 20th century.
There are still those moments when Keith still glare icily at Mick when he walks past him, there are moments where Mick horses around with Ronnie and flatly ignores Keith onstage. But it is nice to see them being a little more friendly and acknowledging how much they mean to each other.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-09-05 19:36 by TurningToGold2.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: September 5, 2019 21:54
Quote
SpudQuote
Send It To me
Keith wants to be closer to Mick but at the same time can't stop disapproving of him and his tastes, decisions, and social circles. Mick's response is "you can't be judging me all the time and still be my friend." This has been going on for decades and it's sort of hilarious that Keith can't stop himself from being the self-appointed cop in Mick's life.
Well summed up
As folks have said...any calming of the waters now is perhaps a little too late to have any real artistic results
But maybe they've both realised that life really is too short to spend time sulking over the trivial stuff...and it's better to be mates than adversaries .
Thanks. Yeah, maybe they both realize that nobody really changes so you'd might as well just accept their faults and move on and deal with it. Keith isn't going to start getting into experimental dance grooves and Mick isn't going to keep trying to make Exile over and over again....
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
stone66
()
Date: September 5, 2019 22:17
Does it matter?
All that counts is the result on stage.
The audience takes in the performance.
After the show
you and they all go
on with each life to live.
It's unnatural for old school chums
to be so fraternal at such an age
which means the Stones are a business
rather than a group of friends
for the pleasure of company.
Without this common business interest
Mick and Keith would have seen each other last
some time in their twenties or so.
Like the old song goes:
"Not a soul down on the corner
That's a pretty certain sign
That wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine
All the boys are singing love songs
They forgot "Sweet Adeline,"
Those wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine
There goes Jack, there goes Jim
Down to lover's lane
Now and then we meet again
But they don't seem the same
Gee, I get a lonesome feeling
When I hear the church bells chime
Those wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine"
All that counts is the result on stage.
The audience takes in the performance.
After the show
you and they all go
on with each life to live.
It's unnatural for old school chums
to be so fraternal at such an age
which means the Stones are a business
rather than a group of friends
for the pleasure of company.
Without this common business interest
Mick and Keith would have seen each other last
some time in their twenties or so.
Like the old song goes:
"Not a soul down on the corner
That's a pretty certain sign
That wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine
All the boys are singing love songs
They forgot "Sweet Adeline,"
Those wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine
There goes Jack, there goes Jim
Down to lover's lane
Now and then we meet again
But they don't seem the same
Gee, I get a lonesome feeling
When I hear the church bells chime
Those wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine"
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: September 5, 2019 23:46
Of course they are not. Keith hung on to Mick and got into a band - they developed some kind of partnership that lasted a few years.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: September 6, 2019 01:18
It's all too much...….. I wanna go and hang-out with Jack and Jim ……..
ROCKMAN
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
blivet
()
Date: September 6, 2019 20:42
Quote
lem motlow
I asked the question a couple of years ago here- can you find a picture since the 80s of them together in a non working environment,I think someone found one, don’t think there was a second or third.
I agree that they are likely not really "friends" in the sense of having much inclination to spend time together when it's not necessary. But in their case I think you'd be hard pressed to find many photos of them together in a non-working environment at any point in their careers. Their entire relationship is based on music. Even back in the 60s they seemed to move in different social circles.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: September 6, 2019 21:07
what can you do if divorce is impossible?
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: September 6, 2019 22:17
Quote
blivetQuote
lem motlow
I asked the question a couple of years ago here- can you find a picture since the 80s of them together in a non working environment,I think someone found one, don’t think there was a second or third.
I agree that they are likely not really "friends" in the sense of having much inclination to spend time together when it's not necessary. But in their case I think you'd be hard pressed to find many photos of them together in a non-working environment at any point in their careers. Their entire relationship is based on music. Even back in the 60s they seemed to move in different social circles.
True but:
1. They went on vacation together in late 1968 to South America. A productive time...Midnight Rzmbler was conceived I believe.?.maybe others..also the term Glimmer arrived. All this after filming Performance some months previously.
2. Keith was Best Man at Keith's wedding to Patti.(1983).
But, agreed not much thereafter. But then
Mick never hooked up with John Lennon or David Bowie despite their respective residencies in NYC.
Re: Mick & Keith more and more friends again?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: September 6, 2019 22:48
On a weekend break from MAIN OFFENDER sessions in San Rafael, Keith paid a visit to Mick who was in Los Angeles working on WANDERING SPIRIT. Mick's housekeeper took a photo of them that she later sold. A rare glimpse of them without rock star hair and makeup.
Mick attended one of Keith and the Winos' UK dates in December 1992 (until the crowd wouldn't leave him alone).
Mick & Jerry and the kids were guests of Keith and Patti for a weekend in Turks & Caicos in September 1996. Mick and Keith played each other tracks of what they had each been working up separately at the time. A precursor to the band meeting in November that year when it was agreed to do another album and tour in 1997.
Also worth remembering that when Keith asked Mick to be his best man, he did so knowing that part of the 1983 sessions in Compass Point for UNDERCOVER had been spent with The Compass Point All Stars starting demos for SHE'S THE BOSS and when the deal with CBS was hammered out in Paris in August 1983, Mick had been at Pathe-Marconi writing songs in the studio with Carlos Alomar. Also worth noting, Stu was excited about Mick finally going solo.
Much of what fans take as history is filtered through Keith's PR speak. No one does a better job of playing a man of the people than Keith. The thing is, reality isn't that simple. Keith really isn't a cartoon character and he and Mick are still childhood friends who went into business together.
We only know what they tell us and what leaks out. Are they great friends? No. Do you imagine anyone with their huge fame is truly a great friend? Is Steve Jordan Keith's friend? Sure. Do you think Keith views him as a peer like he does Mick or is he a hanger-on who made good because he continued to be able to deliver to the star. Not picking on Keith. It's that way with any huge star. You have to have a reason to share the room. The Winos were never The Stones. Sometimes, the other Stones weren't treated as peers by Mick. Fame and ego are a potent combination for anyone. It doesn't mean connections don't run deep. It is lonely at the top, after all.
Mick attended one of Keith and the Winos' UK dates in December 1992 (until the crowd wouldn't leave him alone).
Mick & Jerry and the kids were guests of Keith and Patti for a weekend in Turks & Caicos in September 1996. Mick and Keith played each other tracks of what they had each been working up separately at the time. A precursor to the band meeting in November that year when it was agreed to do another album and tour in 1997.
Also worth remembering that when Keith asked Mick to be his best man, he did so knowing that part of the 1983 sessions in Compass Point for UNDERCOVER had been spent with The Compass Point All Stars starting demos for SHE'S THE BOSS and when the deal with CBS was hammered out in Paris in August 1983, Mick had been at Pathe-Marconi writing songs in the studio with Carlos Alomar. Also worth noting, Stu was excited about Mick finally going solo.
Much of what fans take as history is filtered through Keith's PR speak. No one does a better job of playing a man of the people than Keith. The thing is, reality isn't that simple. Keith really isn't a cartoon character and he and Mick are still childhood friends who went into business together.
We only know what they tell us and what leaks out. Are they great friends? No. Do you imagine anyone with their huge fame is truly a great friend? Is Steve Jordan Keith's friend? Sure. Do you think Keith views him as a peer like he does Mick or is he a hanger-on who made good because he continued to be able to deliver to the star. Not picking on Keith. It's that way with any huge star. You have to have a reason to share the room. The Winos were never The Stones. Sometimes, the other Stones weren't treated as peers by Mick. Fame and ego are a potent combination for anyone. It doesn't mean connections don't run deep. It is lonely at the top, after all.
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