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Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: RoddyD ()
Date: September 6, 2005 04:18

IMO...and that's all it is, an opinion, Sweet NeoCon is terrific.

Yep, it's overtly political, so what? Can't Jagger have an opinion too? His soapbox (the Stones) just has a bigger audience than ours, being IORR. He (they) will have to wear any backlash that might come. By releasing it they've shown they're happy to do so.

Lyrically a little clumsy, yes, but it's also clever, especially the verse about Halliburton and Brown & Root. Thought provoking stuff.

Musically it's also very adventurous, more so than many ABB tracks. It's primarily powered, after all, by a harp instead of guitars and drums. It's certainly better than the screaming high pitched She Saw Me Coming and the other pseudo-funk Look What the Cat Dragged in, which are Stones-funk-by-the-numbers, and just don't push ANY envelope.

I like it, a lot. Coming after Laugh I Nearly Died, it's just fantastic.

I suspect, and it's only a suspicion, that those who don't like, just don't like the message.

I am certainly glad it saw the light of day and wasn't just buried in a pile of unreleased material, only to be whispered about on these forums for years to come as a song the Stones were unprepared to release for fear of....something.

Rgds
Rod

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: September 6, 2005 04:43

wrong about the reason for disliking it..I personally couldnt give a shit about the message either way - the lyrics are just plain trite and some of them could have been written by a 12 year old. Calling it "a little clumsy" is being kind.

Most of the reviews Ive read so far are in UK magazines that would probably have some 'sympathy' with the message - but almost all of them have said the song just doesnt work (even though they generally have liked the album). One described it as the worst song the band have ever released, which I think is a bit much, but its still not good.

cant see how you can possibly describe it as musically more adventurous than Look What The Cat Dragged In, myself

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Glimmer Twin ()
Date: September 6, 2005 04:56

I like the song a lot.
Music and message....just great
How come you're so right, my sweet neo knight?

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: stickydion ()
Date: September 6, 2005 05:33

A song with a clear message. Nothing more, nothing less. Musically? Just decent.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: open-g ()
Date: September 6, 2005 05:40

"I suspect, and it's only a suspicion, that those who don't like, just don't like the message. "
Well , thats so wrong for me.
I like the message though, "even little clumsy", "could have been written by a 12 year old" ,it gets even more realistic with Katrina's aftermath.
It's the lack of musical intoition, how could Keith do that? or rather not bother?
musicwise its one of the worst ever released Stones song. - IMO - !

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: gut ()
Date: September 6, 2005 08:19

Its a piece of crap. Skip to the next track

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: open-g ()
Date: September 6, 2005 08:24

gut,
did I read between your one line - you don't like the lyrics?

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Date: September 6, 2005 09:35

12 years old should have their say as well ( just like a few "5-years olds" do here from time to time ). And if they write lyrics like Sweet NeoCon I'm all for it. On a Stones-album this is indeed very direct lyrics. And perhaps in this context it's really ok. The language of NeoCons-leaders are at times just as simple and primitive. At other times - from the mouths of more intellectual NeoCons - the language could compared to manipulative and perverted communist "new speak". NeoCons have produced "Dangerous Beauties". All this imo "justifies" the "quality" of the lyrics. Or perhaps just "explain" the simplicity of the lyrics. - And let me add that I belong to the minority of people here, who actually like the musical side of this song. I agree with RoddyD - though not with his comparisons of other songs.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: LA FORUM ()
Date: September 6, 2005 09:45

It's a biased song, chilidish and not at all radical. It's 100% PC and it's all about Mick pretending to be interested in politics. He couldnt give a shite and he doesnt know politics at all like most musicians. I'm embarrased.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: kuenzer ()
Date: September 6, 2005 11:19

and it reminded me of the Beatles' "She Loves You" (just as "Look What the Cat
Dragged In" reminded me of INXS' "Need You Tonight" ...)

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: wandering spirit ()
Date: September 6, 2005 13:07

I don´t think the lyrics are childish - it´s a rock song, and not a scientific thesis! And it "hits the point"!
And by the way: I think Mick is actually interested in politics, he wrote a lot of more or less political songs (Salt of the earth, sympathy for the devil, street fighting man, sweet black angel, Lies, Indian girl - a horrible song, otherwise, Undercover, Back to zero, Let´s work - don´t like this message, though!,....)

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Nikolai ()
Date: September 6, 2005 13:08

Sweet Neo Con is crap.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Steven ()
Date: September 6, 2005 13:14

It is simply the worse song on the CD, far more boring than SOL and that takes a lot.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: September 6, 2005 18:30

I must be living on a different planet - love the song. The music sets the context for the biting lyrics - it all works very nicely.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: pafult01 ()
Date: September 6, 2005 19:11

I like the music - very minamalist but good groove. Love that harp. I agree with the song's message, but the lyrics are trite. They sound like they were written by a 14 year old taking his first shot at poetry.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: September 6, 2005 19:15

pafult01 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They sound like
> they were written by a 14 year old taking his
> first shot at poetry.


And that varies from 90% of Stones songs from the last quarter-century how?



Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: wisertime ()
Date: September 6, 2005 19:21

T&A Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must be living on a different planet - love the
> song. The music sets the context for the biting
> lyrics - it all works very nicely.


Me too !! I think it's one of the best track of the album.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: SeNdEr ()
Date: September 6, 2005 19:26

its a great song, i dont know why do people hate it, i love it, cant wait to hear it maybe on Europe or South America

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: September 6, 2005 19:44

SeNdEr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> its a great song, i dont know why do people hate
> it, i love it, cant wait to hear it maybe on
> Europe or South America


I still go with the theory that some folks are on the other side of the political fence and use that convenience to trash the song as a whole. Of course nobody will admit to that - but I think that's what's going on here, folks. I really do....I really really really do.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: SeNdEr ()
Date: September 6, 2005 20:11

maybe you are right T&A, thats the problem, because the song is great

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Tseverin ()
Date: September 6, 2005 20:41

"It's liberty for all
'Cause democracy's our style
Unless you are against us
Then it's prison without trial

But one thing that is certain
Life is good at Haliburton
If you're really so astute
You should invest at Brown & Root.... Yeah"

These lyrics are childish??? An astute dig at the Bush/Republican philosophy and the appalling injustice of Guantanamo Bay & subtle reference to Cheyney's links to the post war Iraq reconstruction? Most children, and quite possibly "most musicians" (LA Forum) probably think Halliburton is a type of fish. I think T&A has hit the nail on the head about he REAL reason people are trashing the song. Great minimalist groove too, better than 50% of the album.


Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: September 6, 2005 22:23

The real IRONY re: "Neo-Con" is that the song really doesn't target the "True" Neo-cons who developed the policies to drag the US into the quicksand of Iraq.

The true Neo-Cons aren't guys like Cheney who have been Conservative ALL their career, but rather guys like:

1) In the Pentagon: The # 2 & #3 guys behind Rumsfeld: Paul Wolfowitz & Doug Feith. Feith was head of "policy"...

2) At the Defense Policy Board: Just loaded with Neo-Cons including it's Director, Richard Perle..

3) At Dick CHeney's Office: His #2 guy and Chief of Staff Lewis Libby

4) At Condi Rice's Office: The Head of Middle East Policy: Elliott Abrams

5) At the "Office of Special Plans" at the Pentagon, an "intelligence" outfit that created alot of very questionable "intelligence": Director David Wurmser

In the Media: guys like Krauthammer, Kristol, and discredited NYTimes reporter Judith Miller...

Google these names, AND google "A Clean Break" and "Securing the Realm" and you'll have a much better understanding of the Neo-Cons and their objectives, and believe me, IT'S NOT ABOUT OIL !!

So quit repeating that "dummies explanation" of the Iraq Invasion... it is NOT about oil !

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: September 6, 2005 22:27

While you're googling "Securing the Realm" and "NeoCon", also check out the major institutions that really promoted the Iraq war, and lobbied the Presidunce so incessantly for it:

AIPAC, AEI, JINSA, and others... all chock-full of Neo-Cons....

These organizations were tripping over each other to see who could promote the "benefits" of invading Iraq more...

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: LolA ()
Date: September 6, 2005 22:53

I love the song as well. T&A and Tseverin pretty much summed up what i think.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: September 6, 2005 22:59

Anyway, the song has stuck with me.
I think musically its an attempt for them to write
in a modern, sort-of avantgarde way... Maybe this and
some other examples on ABB is what some call "rediscovery of the
80´s". Deconstruction of songwriting.
The chorus is infectiously, catchy.
Its not any of my fav´s on ABB; but I´m sorry -
I like it. Lyrics I couldnt care less for:
but they, too, stuck, esp. the beginning.
Just as a word-game.
LA; go back to the Stones-bios: Mick has been interested in politics since
Dartford. As late as in the late 60´s he still had a political career in mind.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: T&A ()
Date: September 7, 2005 00:06

for those that think the lyrics are simplistic, trite, childish - I would submit to you a couple of early Dylan anti-war anthems (John Brown and Masters of War) that one could also argue are quite simple songs, lyrically. Sometimes simple is best when you're trying to make a point.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: uz2bstoned ()
Date: September 7, 2005 01:43

I agree T & A. This is a good song! I enjoy how they hit some flat notes at the end too exagerate the point. For some reason this song reminds me of the band Korn. I don't know why. maybe it is the way it is sung, almost rapping, but the groove on this song is good! Especially the nice decending part after the snarling chorus.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Date: September 7, 2005 05:39

All of this talk about Jagger not knowing anything about politics is totally not true.He is very well read.Songs such as Undercover Of The Night and Sympathy For The Devil were inspired by some of his reading.I don't believe publicity was the motive or the only motive for writing this song.It is what Jagger believes.The title track of Dirty Work takes direct aim at Ronald Reagan (R) and his administration.I also remember an interview with Jagger done between 2001 and 2003 in which he talked in detail about the foreign policy of the U.S. and how the majority of Americans had no idea about what it was or is.I imagine it is petty difficult make a song out of these beliefs but,like the song or not,many of these accusations are unfounded.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Posted by: jumpinjackgreg ()
Date: September 7, 2005 06:20

I like the song a lot. It's not my fave off the album, but it's still got a nice hook and could be cool in a club setting.

Re: Sweet NeoCon - another viewpoint
Date: September 9, 2005 01:52

I think it's decent too.

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