... QUITE MERCYLESS HYPOCRITES.

Sir Michael Ph. Jagger and his bandmates are - right now - touring a continent, which - right now -faces one of the biggest desasters in known history. The Tour shall promote an album containing the song "Sweet Neo Con", the lyrics of which aim at neo-conservatives, perhaps at the president of the U.S.

I have been a die-hard Stones-fan as many of you all my life. I supported the Stones in many ways and kept loving them even at the nadir of their careers. Up to this moment, I hardly ever fellt ashamed for being a Stones-fan, but right now I feel not even ashamed but depressed and disillusioned. Why?

Because we near the end of day seven after Katrina AND STILL THERE IS NOT THE SLIGHTEST RESPONSE BY THE BAND in terms of CHARITY, DONATION, COMPASSION or any other reaction human beings normally would show in such circumstances.

I´m utmost upset disgusted about the band´s attitude towards the ill fate of so many thousands of people, living in a region the Rolling Stones owe so much. Where did Muddy Water´s hut stand? Is Tango the root of the Stones´music? Where was Jumpin´Jack born? Does Sir Jagger feel anything these days when singing "sold there in a market down in New Orleans"?

As a matter of fact Sir Jagger and the other members of the band are no "poor boys" no more, in fact they are terribly rich, and therefore CAN DO MORE than "to sing for a rock n roll band".

Honestly, I had no idea who Kanye West was before someone mentioned him on this board. This said I saw this guy on a nationwide broadcast for fundraising. He complained about the federal government / President Bush in a very explicit way. And then he HELPED. The Rolling Stones DID NOT so far, and therefore I will take all my money ment to be spent for A Bigger Bang and give it to charity. And their album will not reach #1, but Kanye West´s will. Haha, and I would be happy, if quite a lot of you does the same as me, because when looking in Your mirror you will see a worse Stonesfan, perhaps, but certainly you will also see a far better human being.


Shame on the Stones for their ignorance and for their making money out of calling other people hypocrites.

(Please do not come up with arguments that they have given already something secretly. I don´t buy such lies.)

Good night everybody! God bless America and its totally incompetent, permanently grinning president. We Europeans will help you as much as we can, lthough he refused to accept the help offering of other coubtries.






Do the girls still scream, when you perform on stage? KR: Not on stage, but when I perform, yeah.

I have to say I cannot argur with a word of this but remember
They are Limonene liberals

I hope I am wrong

I loved them but it is true... so far

Great Like I said love to be wrong

They said they would play on an MTV concert Next Saturday that they(MTV) are putting on for the Hurricane fund. didn't get into to much detail other then they were going to play. Maybe a taped thing from a of there upcoming concerts.
Make a couple of comments furing a show .

They are playing in the charity event next weekend. will you then winge because they used a tragic event to promote themselves? Kanye West is right though. if they were all white in New orleans bush would have been on the plane down their the next day.

Well, man, it`s really a tragedy and I feel really sorry for the affected people. But natural disasters (and not only natural but also provoked by Bush for instance) take place all over the world. Can the Stones help all the needing people not only in USA but everywhere else and is this their responsibility? Of course not. And don`t blame the Stones for not caring or not even mentioning this disaster, the US government budget have the capability of dealing with this problem and this is their obligation, not the Stones`. And let this government give a perfect example to (I guess) voters like you, by helping properly injured and affected people not only in US, but all over the world, and stop creating Bu(ll)sh(it) wars like the one in Iraq for instance.

Also in my opinion Bush is a shithead, but I would not argue about this, because this site is about the Stones, not about politics after all. And the bright Americans should buy the Stones` new album .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-05 02:52 by Dobril.

Come on! You call it really SUBSTANTIAL HELP ("Send CASH!" the president spoke) when they play some five minutes on air, when will it be? Hmmm, on the 10th of September? Wow, thats what you call an act of imminent relief??? Celine Dion already handed over $ 1 Million - to give you some example, Gazza. For Jagger/Richards, Mr.Cohl, Mr. Loewenstein, have I forgotten somebody it´s THAT easy to give large amounts of money. The Stones still play in the Premiere League, please don´t forget this!

If I sat in front of the Superdome, man, I really wouldn´t care how descretely or distinguished the donation for my rescue was done. Wake up Gazza, this is a state of emergency, and the Stones respond to it completely inadequately. They can still stir masses - but use their talents merely to fill their own pockets.




Do the girls still scream, when you perform on stage? KR: Not on stage, but when I perform, yeah.

StonesAustria - it's far too early to be making such statements - and don't blame the Stones for a lack of, or ask them for, their comments, we all know how we feel about this tragedy. I think that you're looking at the stature of this group and expecting them to perform a miracle or for them to say a few "gracious comments" and become the martyrs of the rock 'n" roll industry. It is not going to happen that way and this soon (do you not think that any of them, the Stones, their supporting entourage, are not struck by the intensity of this disaster?). The hurricane hit and destroyed lives, homes, and commerce and in a way far bigger than we can all understand.

StonesAustria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on! You call it really SUBSTANTIAL HELP
> ("Send CASH!" the president spoke) when they play
> some five minutes on air, when will it be? Hmmm,
> on the 10th of September? Wow, thats what you call
> an act of imminent relief??? Celine Dion already
> handed over $ 1 Million - to give you some
> example, Gazza. For Jagger/Richards, Mr.Cohl, Mr.
> Loewenstein, have I forgotten somebody it´s THAT
> easy to give large amounts of money. The Stones
> still play in the Premiere League, please don´t
> forget this!
>
> If I sat in front of the Superdome, man, I really
> wouldn´t care how descretely or distinguished the
> donation for my rescue was done. Wake up Gazza,
> this is a state of emergency, and the Stones
> respond to it completely inadequately. They can
> still stir masses - but use their talents merely
> to fill their own pockets.
>
>
>


Hey Austria... first you say they don't do anything, then you say you're not satisfied with their timing !!

The Stones don't choose when this event airs MTV DOES !! And they've picked Sept. 10th.

They've had a grand total of one concert (Moncton, not in the U.S.) to my knowledge, since the hurricane...

Don't know how much you can expect from any rock band anyway... this is the way they do it... they get together and have these "specials" like Live 8, and like the MTV special on Sept. 10th... what more do you want or expect, really ??

StonesAustria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on! You call it really SUBSTANTIAL HELP
> ("Send CASH!" the president spoke) when they play
> some five minutes on air, when will it be? Hmmm,
> on the 10th of September? Wow, thats what you call
> an act of imminent relief??? Celine Dion already
> handed over $ 1 Million - to give you some
> example, Gazza. For Jagger/Richards, Mr.Cohl, Mr.
> Loewenstein, have I forgotten somebody it´s THAT
> easy to give large amounts of money. The Stones
> still play in the Premiere League, please don´t
> forget this!
>
> If I sat in front of the Superdome, man, I really
> wouldn´t care how descretely or distinguished the
> donation for my rescue was done. Wake up Gazza,
> this is a state of emergency, and the Stones
> respond to it completely inadequately. They can
> still stir masses - but use their talents merely
> to fill their own pockets.
>

Oh wake up, get off your high horse and get a life

I didnt say it was "substantial help" - I was correcting you when you said theyd done nothing and taking you to task for "assuming" they would do nothing at all when the disaster isnt even a week old

So celine made a public announcement that she'll donate $1 million. Good for her. Thousands of other artists havent chose to go public so why should they and who are you to try and publicly "shame" them into doing so when you dont even know the full facts. Charity for many people is a private matter, not an excuse for an ego boost (thats one of the reasons why the Stones didnt play either Live Aid show)

and how the hell is that their fault they have to wait til September 10th to do anything on TV - the Stones might have a lot of power but I somehow doubt its their fault they cant hijack the airwaves

and neither is it the Stones' responsibility to "respond to it" adequately. Last time I looked, the onus was on governments to do that. If you have to live your entire existence based on what a rock n roll band does or doesnt do in response to every issue in the world, then you need to get out more..






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-05 04:46 by Gazza.

Just one question, StonesAustria:

How much have you given?

-- Keep on rollin'. Keep on. Keep on. Keep on. --

Stones Austria.....

It is absurd what you are writing....

Blame your F**** president for this disaster for instance, not the Stones, they cant help everytime, everyone, their president should help the people, not a rock and roll band, stop the war in Iraq spend that money to help his own people, nobody want to help Bush, because he is not welcome in anywhere, i would love to help but i dont have money, im in a 3rd world country, thanks Usa, you helped the UK in a war againts us.

"Where was Jumpin´Jack born?" (StonesAustria)

_ Not far from Sussex, I´d say. He was the big-footed gardener over at
Redlands, wasnt he? For certain he wasnt any Mississippi-dweller,
but an Englander.

I do agree they owe them cajuners a hell of a lot
(and the dixie owe the Stones a truckload of a lot too).
But you´d better save your sour fluids.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-05 10:52 by Baboon Bro.

Bullshit! It would be quit 'cheap' to respond directly to something like this.
Should a R&R band on tour have a responsibility to react on disasters or political matters> NO of course not...

IORR but I like it >>

This is a Rolling Stones board, ok? So I think it is correct to critizise the Stones here, not any other band who also might deserve it.

My particular point is not that the Stones shall heal the world, that would be pretty stupid. Neither is there imo an obligation for them to be first rank philanthropes in every distress the world gets into, nor would even their estates be sufficient to bring significant relief to all and every evilin this world. What I try to make clear here is

1. that the Stones will issue their new album worldwide today - Halleluja!
2. that on one track of this album they call Mr. G.W. Bush a hypocrite - Double Halleluja (Some deaf and blind and certain Sir Jagger meanwhile deny flatly that W. is meant, but that is a different story)
3. Well then, imho, if a rockband raises moral questions in its work, or makes money out of harsh criticism of politicians, then it should better be a pack of "poor boys", who can "only sing for a rock n roll band"but is unable to help OR - if they are enormously rich grown up men - they should prove their higher morale by handing over some money to the poor people of Louisiana, Mississippi etc.

The fact is that the cradle (roots?) of all good Stones music, the homeland of the blues is drowned in up to nine feet water, and the Stones have not done more yet than announcing their participation in some fundraising tv-show. That is the attitude a certain Mr. Bush would apply, and I take the right to call it MERCYLESS HYPOCRISY.

Of course the federal government failed, of course not only the Stones but we all are requested to help. But I´m really particularly disgusted for the moment that the Stones garnish their shows with the most famous blues musicians (Hubert Sumlin, Solomon Burke, Muddy Waters), and live in the fame of being the reinventors, protectors and ultima ratio of Rhythm and Blues music, use a former president of the USA to GET UTMOST PUBLICITY for their charity anti-global-warming concert in Los Angeles, and then don´t even move a finger while people in the south die to the dozens in their own feces. That is imho a big disgrace!
You can´t preach water and drink wine, can you?

There is no need to get personal, Gazza. I have my opinion and you have yours. OK?

The Stones, it seems to me, have never been so damned WHITE before. Yes, and I really believe that fans can change - to some extent - the behaviour of their idols. Its our turn now. Dont buy the record.










Do the girls still scream, when you perform on stage? KR: Not on stage, but when I perform, yeah.

You must have a difficult live in this world....

They have never agreed on political and idealistic terms within this group.
In 1969, while touring and a gig was cancelled, ol´ keith wanted to
pour the money from the air over the place. Jagger is more calculated.
I dont know what Charlie thinks. Ron is a idealistic son of a bitch
(see his site): plantin trees in Africa etc.

They are no whiter now than before; they are whiggers.
Its a disgrace by you StonesAustria to keep on postin about the Stones being
non-responsible vis-a-vis the black, roots music. They pay tribute to it
every single day; they have dedicated a whole carieer to it.
Chuck Berry would have been almost forgotten if it wasnt for Keith:
not to mention Johnie Johnson, Hubert Sumlin; and the numberless
others they have set in the spot. If you compare the Stones to (e.g.) Led Zeppelin and their respectively treatment towards their roots, the latter
rarely even give credits to songwriters, just writing "Trad.".
You are out along the wrong Lane in this critics.

Just try to imagine how many people out there having their first
discoveries of black, roots (blues, soul, reggae...) thru the Stones??

- There have been plenty postin here on their greediness and
over such behaviour towards the fans. I would never buy the record.
But I sure want to have it, and I do have it.

Me? I have all Stones records now except the first and DW.
I have only bought one, once (Aftermath - UK issue, on vinyl, circa 1987).
Plus sh*tloads of boots.

They are no saints.
But can we return to the music?

... you may be right, but still it´s a life, not a "live".

Do the girls still scream, when you perform on stage? KR: Not on stage, but when I perform, yeah.

"08.29.05 Ottawa blown away by kings of rock 'n' roll's showmanship."

Cited from rs.com "News" section.

08.29.05 New Orleans and some hundred thousand people living in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama etc. blown away by hurricane Katrina.

"Let them eat cake" - cited Marie Antoinette ca. 1792

Baboon Bro, I view it quite the same way as you do. The Stones and the American Blues world, they owe each other a lot. But at this very moment the Blues world is in desperate need of BIG help. Right now, people all around the world are looking at New Orleans etc. - they do NOW, not so much next week, and next week, and next week. In a way, it seems to me that - despite global warming - America has become a really cold place on this planet.

Do you think it would have been a mistake, if Sir Jagger had added this ONE sentence before the encore in Moncton saying: Thanks and good night, I will be happy if you opened your pockets for those hurricane victims down there as we have done already.

Would that have been a mistake?





Do the girls still scream, when you perform on stage? KR: Not on stage, but when I perform, yeah.

It´s a incomprehensive disaster.
But where were you all at the tsunami nine months ago,
that killed 200,000? 543 of them were Swedes; and, sorry, I still
have this more in my heart.

StoneAustria: I´m glad we can agree on something.
I´m sure Stones will do everything the possibly can in this,
and I´m sure they feel for it.
People dont get evil the very second they earn money.
Hell; not even myself are as poor nowadays as I used to be.

All comfort is wished for the victims and their relatives;
in far East, in Southern US, Sweden!

StonesAustria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... you may be right, but still it´s a life, not a
> "live".


The fact you that you take the effort to make this spelling correction proves my point any which way >> good luck man

StonesAustria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no need to get personal, Gazza. I have my
> opinion and you have yours. OK?

Well if you choose to single me out by telling me to 'wake up', yeah, I'll also 'get personal' in a reply.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're being overly hysterical in the way you're doing it.

Aside from the fact that you have no inside knowledge of what steps any of the people you're bashing have chosen to take regarding this disaster nor have you any right to dictate their emotions, its also not for you or anyone else to 'cherrypick' a disaster when trying to 'shame' someone into doing something about it.

Should they have played Live 8? Should they have donated millions to African famine relief? The Asian Tsunami appeal? The thousands of people killed or injured in Iraq? The families of servicemen orphaned in Iraq? the families of people slaughtered in the Al Queida bombings in London and elsewhere?

I didnt see you posting on here within a few days after those events lambasting them for not jumping to do something about it. It isnt up to the Rolling Stones to solve the world's problems, nor is it up to them to provide some kneejerk public reaction within a specific timeframe and to a specific event that YOU insist upon.

Its a bit rich for you to have a go at them for ONLY donating their time to a charity concert and then saying they should have mentioned the tragedy at Moncton...what the fúck difference would THAT have made? Do you think the 80,000 people at that concert need a lecture from a rich rock star into giving money to charity?


Yes, of course, it goes without saying that extremely rich people should help out those less fortunate than themselves - especially in a time of disaster (and they should do so regardless of the fact that this took place in a part of the world that has inspired their musical background). I dont think its for you to get hysterical about what they havent done when you dont know the facts.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-05 12:07 by Gazza.

Hey Stonesaustria, can you give me the username and password for the online bank accounts of the Four Stones? I mean since you are obviously in tune with their cash flow and can tell us all what greedy misers that they are. The group is made of four individulas, all who may or may not have contributed QUIETLY to releif. It is my understanding that all of them in the past have helped individuals and cuases substantially, but all on the Q.T.

The truth is that none of us know whether any of these people have contributed or not.

Perhaps they already did it and told no one.

However isn't there a system where people in the US pay taxes and there should be a contingency for this sort of thing?

I totally agree with Gazza and have nothing to add.

Who gives a hoot if they're hypocrites. That's their problem. I know they're right when they say it about you-know-who.

JumpingKentFlash

It's appropriate for musicians to
respond with a benefit concert,
because that's what they do
for a living. They can actively
encourage others to help out
in whatever ways they can,
by joining in.

The Stones have actively acknowledged
and promoted the black roots of
their sound. I also respect them
for this. It's pretty hard to
fault them for it.

Quite possibly, there were more
civilian deaths in Iraq last week,
but as far as public concern goes,
they received but a byline
in the press. I suppose
our outrage is very
relative?

Neo Con would seem to be a tip
of the hat in this direction, but
has drawn a lot of flack. Whatever the
Stones do or don't do, I suppose they
are going to be criticized.

I think in their own way, they hold their
own, and I love them just the way they are.

davido Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Stones have actively acknowledged
> and promoted the black roots of
> their sound. I also respect them
> for this. It's pretty hard to
> fault them for it.

I not only respect them for this, I love them, and I never could discredit them for all the merits they have gained on that field. Their current attitude to the Louisiana / Mississippi hurricane disaster stands in harsh contrast to these merits. I´m trying to understand this, but I obviously can´t.

>
> Quite possibly, there were more
> civilian deaths in Iraq last week,
> but as far as public concern goes,
> they received but a byline
> in the press. I suppose
> our outrage is very
> relative?

This is perhaps the one point where Gazza is right. You can´t mourn all day over everything. As sad as such accidents with so many casualties are, you hear about it in the news, the other moment you forget about ist, UNLESS you had some specific relationship with the affected people or place, where such mischief happened. You raise a valid point davido, but in order to stay in your picture: The Stones´music does not have its roots on the banks of Euphrat and Tigris.

>
> Neo Con would seem to be a tip
> of the hat in this direction, but
> has drawn a lot of flack. Whatever the
> Stones do or don't do, I suppose they
> are going to be criticized.

Hmm, you may be right. As far as I remember, I only criticized them twice. For their current negligence of the hurricane desaster and for letting the "Böhse Onkelz" - a rightwing Nazi-Band warm-up their gig in Hamburg at the last tour.
>
Well, what can one do? I still love them, but these days are the less happy ones in my 35 year fanship.



Do the girls still scream, when you perform on stage? KR: Not on stage, but when I perform, yeah.

think the u.s government can pay for the damage themselves. like a government should. maybe it's just an idea they can pull back from irak and the money they would have spend there use for disasters and while their at it they can look at the poverty in the u.s. it's a crying shame that people are dying in the streets overthere in the big cities. some civilisation....