There was an interesting discussion of what consititutes 'classic rock' in the Sticky Fingers Live thread.

Nate Silver's number crunchers at fivethirtyeight.com break it down
Why Classic Rock Isn’t What It Used To Be

I guess they consider it more of a sliding scale based on the current timeframe.

I tend to think of it more of a classic era, more of a fixed period from the late 50's through late 70's.

Though I also tend to think of it more from a "bands that had their heyday" in that period so not necessarily opposed to hearing new stuff from them as well.

But I guess they keep these rigid definitions in place for ad marketing reasons unfortunately.

It really annoys me when listening to them talk about a band and say "There's a new Rolling Stones song out that's really good" and then don't play it, then it's "now here's some Journey for you".

Though I guess that last quote is always bad news.

Thanks 2000Man. That guy did some pretty amazing and solid research about the term. Interesting to learn that is varies fairly significantly in different geographical areas. No wonder Dandie may have thought The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Eagles were "definitely not classic rock". I'd love to hear what a typical classic rock station in Norway plays during the course of a day.

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Naturalust
Thanks 2000Man. That guy did some pretty amazing and solid research about the term. Interesting to learn that is varies fairly significantly in different geographical areas. No wonder Dandie may have thought The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Eagles were "definitely not classic rock". I'd love to hear what a typical classic rock station in Norway plays during the course of a day.

Yes, and the timeframe given certainly contradicts much of what has previously been posted on this site.

Could not 'classic rock' simply be defined as a sound, regardless of the creator or the era in which it is created?

I believe The Darkness (formed in 2000) play classic rock.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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Naturalust
Thanks 2000Man. That guy did some pretty amazing and solid research about the term. Interesting to learn that is varies fairly significantly in different geographical areas. No wonder Dandie may have thought The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Eagles were "definitely not classic rock". I'd love to hear what a typical classic rock station in Norway plays during the course of a day.

Yes, and the timeframe given certainly contradicts much of what has previously been posted on this site.

Could not 'classic rock' simply be defined as a sound, regardless of the creator or the era in which it is created?

I believe The Darkness (formed in 2000) play classic rock.

No. In the US it's more of a time span of hit songs by mostly rock bands from about 1964 to 1991, at least for the past few years since I hear Metallica and Pearl Jam on it now, with the heaviest 'era' being whatever songs by Journey. Classic rock is not a genre nor a sound, it's merely certain songs, in most cases, hit singles of various chart rankings.

It could easily be summed up in a Time Magazine Music Of Your Life 10 Disc Box Set that you would see on TV...

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GasLightStreet

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Olly

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Naturalust
Thanks 2000Man. That guy did some pretty amazing and solid research about the term. Interesting to learn that is varies fairly significantly in different geographical areas. No wonder Dandie may have thought The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Eagles were "definitely not classic rock". I'd love to hear what a typical classic rock station in Norway plays during the course of a day.

Yes, and the timeframe given certainly contradicts much of what has previously been posted on this site.

Could not 'classic rock' simply be defined as a sound, regardless of the creator or the era in which it is created?

I believe The Darkness (formed in 2000) play classic rock.

No. In the US it's more of a time span of hit songs by mostly rock bands from about 1964 to 1991, at least for the past few years since I hear Metallica and Pearl Jam on it now, with the heaviest 'era' being whatever songs by Journey. Classic rock is not a genre nor a sound, it's merely certain songs, in most cases, hit singles of various chart rankings.

It could easily be summed up in a Time Magazine Music Of Your Life 10 Disc Box Set that you would see on TV...

Your statement supports my argument that the term 'classic rock' is currently inadequately defined.

It may have one definition in the US, but another elsewhere.

I have seen several definitions that employ a different timeframe from the one you do, such as 1960 - 1977; 1968 - 1981, etc.

Also, how can the word 'about' have any place in a satisfactory definition? You seem unsure of the definition yourself.

.....

Olly.

Classic rock probably has it's beginnings with the one-two punch of You Really Got Me and All Day and All of the Night, starting in 1964. The Stones took it to an entirely different level with Satisfaction in 1965 and to a lesser extent the Who with My Generation. By 1968 classic rock was fully entrenched, for a number of years, with a lot of bands, including Zeppelin, until probably disco and punk in the late 70s.

I think though the period extends right up to G'n'R in the early 90s, and maybe even an argument to include Nirvana and Pearl Jam in the mid-90s.

There are some 'revival' type bands around but really no one carrying the torch as high.

<<Classic rock probably has it's beginnings>>

In the mid-eighties.

Up till then, mainstream rock stations were still playing music from the sixties alongside whatever else was coming out.

So, the term "classic rock", which is really just an industry marketing term to describe a particular musical niche the way "New Wave" was, was invented to describe this type of radio station that would play the music that was believed to have stood the test of time, enough to be considered "classic".

In the mid-eighties, there was some tentative debate as to whether Springsteen should be embraced as "classic rock", but now, of course, it's a given.

If you're age 40 and under, you can make an argument about G-n-R, Nirvana, and Pearl Jam et al. But if you try telling this to someone 50 and up, you'll get an argument instead.

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stonehearted
<<Classic rock probably has it's beginnings>>

In the mid-eighties.

Up till then, mainstream rock stations were still playing music from the sixties alongside whatever else was coming out.

So, the term "classic rock", which is really just an industry marketing term to describe a particular musical niche the way "New Wave" was, was invented to describe this type of radio station that would play the music that was believed to have stood the test of time, enough to be considered "classic".

In the mid-eighties, there was some tentative debate as to whether Springsteen should be embraced as "classic rock", but now, of course, it's a given.

If you're age 40 and under, you can make an argument about G-n-R, Nirvana, and Pearl Jam et al. But if you try telling this to someone 50 and up, you'll get an argument instead.

So...my wife won't be thrilled to find out I'm younger than she is.

I wouldn't tell her about this then if I were you. Musical differences after all can break up a marriage. As proof of this, just consider how many marriages of famous and successful musicians so often fail.

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stonehearted
I wouldn't tell her about this then if I were you. Musical differences after all can break up a marriage. As proof of this, just consider how many marriages of famous and successful musicians so often fail.

Yes, never anything to do with drugs, money, ego, infidelity, etc., etc. ....

Only a matter of what tunes to listen to of an evening.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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GasLightStreet

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Olly

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Naturalust
Thanks 2000Man. That guy did some pretty amazing and solid research about the term. Interesting to learn that is varies fairly significantly in different geographical areas. No wonder Dandie may have thought The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Eagles were "definitely not classic rock". I'd love to hear what a typical classic rock station in Norway plays during the course of a day.

Yes, and the timeframe given certainly contradicts much of what has previously been posted on this site.

Could not 'classic rock' simply be defined as a sound, regardless of the creator or the era in which it is created?

I believe The Darkness (formed in 2000) play classic rock.

No. In the US it's more of a time span of hit songs by mostly rock bands from about 1964 to 1991, at least for the past few years since I hear Metallica and Pearl Jam on it now, with the heaviest 'era' being whatever songs by Journey. Classic rock is not a genre nor a sound, it's merely certain songs, in most cases, hit singles of various chart rankings.

It could easily be summed up in a Time Magazine Music Of Your Life 10 Disc Box Set that you would see on TV...

Your statement supports my argument that the term 'classic rock' is currently inadequately defined.

It may have one definition in the US, but another elsewhere.

I have seen several definitions that employ a different timeframe from the one you do, such as 1960 - 1977; 1968 - 1981, etc.

Also, how can the word 'about' have any place in a satisfactory definition? You seem unsure of the definition yourself.

Because sometimes you may hear something prior to 1964 and after 1991.. hence, about. I don't understand - was that that difficult to ascertain?

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GasLightStreet

Because sometimes you may hear something prior to 1964 and after 1991.. hence, about. I don't understand - was that that difficult to ascertain?

You've done it again... 'about'.

Do you not see the issue with defining something in these terms?

It's simply too vague, I'm as certain as can be regarding that.

How far prior to 1964?

How far after 1991?

.....

Olly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-08 03:56 by Olly.

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Olly

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GasLightStreet

Because sometimes you may hear something prior to 1964 and after 1991.. hence, about. I don't understand - was that that difficult to ascertain?

You've done it again... 'about'.

Do you not see the issue with defining something in these terms?

It's simply too vague, I'm as certain as can be regarding that.

How far prior to 1964?

How far after 1991?

Don't get too hung up here guys, you're both right. I take some responsibility for starting this classic rock discussion and it's pretty clear we have all come up with some pretty good descriptions of what it is. It doesn't have to be crystal clear and defined by exact dates and will always be subject to interpretation and change.

I think we can all agree it started in the mid 60's with songs like You Really Got Me and Satisfaction and includes more modern songs up to the 90's. An artist today could even come up with a tune which would become popular and fit the classic rock description and be played on classic rock stations, imo. I thought treacle had a pretty good handle on it with one of his recent posts above.

One could even define classic rock as the most overplayed songs since 1965.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-08 04:40 by Naturalust.

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Olly

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GasLightStreet

Because sometimes you may hear something prior to 1964 and after 1991.. hence, about. I don't understand - was that that difficult to ascertain?

You've done it again... 'about'.

Do you not see the issue with defining something in these terms?

It's simply too vague, I'm as certain as can be regarding that.

How far prior to 1964?

How far after 1991?

good god Olly, it's about time we started chillin' out, no?

It looks like this thread is about ready to end in a bout.

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treaclefingers

good god Olly, it's about time we started chillin' out, no?

I'm perfectly chilled.

I simply like debate. From what I can tell, GasLightStreet is similar.

I appreciate not everyone will be interested, but I'm keen to discuss whether we can't, just for fun, potentially redefine the concept of 'classic rock.'

I'm simply after an exchange of ideas, as I would have thought everyone who posts here is.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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treaclefingers

good god Olly, it's about time we started chillin' out, no?

I'm perfectly chilled.

I simply like debate. From what I can tell, GasLightStreet is similar.

I appreciate not everyone will be interested, but I'm keen to discuss whether we can't, just for fun, potentially redefine the concept of 'classic rock.'

I'm simply after an exchange of ideas, as I would have thought everyone who posts here is.

well since it is inadequately defined Olly, why don't you give a crack at a clear concise definition. Some of us have tried but your redefined definition would be welcome.

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Naturalust

well since it is inadequately defined Olly, why don't you give a crack at a clear concise definition. Some of us have tried but your redefined definition would be welcome.

'A brand of commercially viable, predominantly electric guitar-driven rock music, following an aesthetic and lyrical style, beginning with the release of the Beatles' debut single in 1962.'



All comments appreciated.

.....

Olly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-09 00:13 by Olly.

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Olly

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Naturalust

well since it is inadequately defined Olly, why don't you give a crack at a clear concise definition. Some of us have tried but your redefined definition would be welcome.

'A brand of commercially viable electric guitar-driven rock music following an aesthetic and lyrical style, beginning with the release of the Beatles' debut single in 1962.'



All comments appreciated.

Well if ya want my honest opinion.. .the only thing about your description that fits is the commercially viable part. Plenty of acoustic music like CSNY and James Taylor that obviously fall into the category and Beatles music prior to say Rubber Soul is never played of classic rock stations and falls more into the "oldies" category, imo, and as others have said here.

But I appreciate your try and opinion!

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Naturalust

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Olly

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Naturalust

well since it is inadequately defined Olly, why don't you give a crack at a clear concise definition. Some of us have tried but your redefined definition would be welcome.

'A brand of commercially viable electric guitar-driven rock music following an aesthetic and lyrical style, beginning with the release of the Beatles' debut single in 1962.'



All comments appreciated.

Well if ya want my honest opinion.. .the only thing about your description that fits is the commercially viable part. Plenty of acoustic music like CSNY and James Taylor that obviously fall into the category and Beatles music prior to say Rubber Soul is never played of classic rock stations and falls more into the "oldies" category, imo, and as others have said here.

But I appreciate your try and opinion!

And I appreciate your response.

My definition does not exclude acoustic music.

I was aiming at a redefinition, so the interpretation of 'classic rock' stations is not something I took into consideration.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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Naturalust

well since it is inadequately defined Olly, why don't you give a crack at a clear concise definition. Some of us have tried but your redefined definition would be welcome.

'A brand of commercially viable electric guitar-driven rock music following an aesthetic and lyrical style, beginning with the release of the Beatles' debut single in 1962.'



All comments appreciated.

this is fine, but an important point is that it ended with the advent of punk/new wave.

IMO, classic rock doesn't really have a firm chronology and has little to do with musical style, except insofar as most of the artists covered by the term were/are blues-based guitar bands. Classic rock is a binary concept. It exists and can only be defined in relation to pop, and more specifically the idea that all modern music is ersatz and terrible. The term encompasses any bands or artists you want to juxtapose with whichever manufactured pop sensation you currently dislike the most. You know those annoying YouTube comments - 'You say Miley Cyrus, I say Aerosmith, you say Justin Bieber, I say Zeppelin etc etc'? That.

Its kind of a strange name to give to the genre if you think about it. I believe the term was coined in the 80's by Ronald Reagan.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-08 17:10 by ryanpow.

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ryanpow
Its kind of a strange name to give to the genre if you think about it. I believe the term was coined in the 80's by Ronald Reagan.

in the 80s there was a song by the Violent Femmes called "Old Mother Reagan" a rock song which is absolutely classic, but not classic rock.

Thanks for the input, all.

It's possible the discussion has run its course, owing to the subjective aspects of the term.

A few further thoughts:

Naturalust, I appreciate your point regarding acoustic music. I meant to suggest the music was predominantly electric guitar based ('driven', i.e. the main 'driving' force, in the majority of cases, is electric guitar). I've inserted 'predominantly' into my definition.

I was keen to see if the timeframe involved could be defined, as there seemed to be many contradictory beliefs. Hence my proposal of 1962 - .

It seems to me now that 'classic rock' isn't a genre of music at all, but rather a marketing strategy - a way for radio stations, for example, to target a specific audience.

I am unfamiliar with the culture of classic rock radio stations, which appear to be much more predominant in the US.


So it's less the definition of the term I'm concerned with and more the term itself and what it represents.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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GasLightStreet

Because sometimes you may hear something prior to 1964 and after 1991.. hence, about. I don't understand - was that that difficult to ascertain?

You've done it again... 'about'.

Do you not see the issue with defining something in these terms?

It's simply too vague, I'm as certain as can be regarding that.

How far prior to 1964?

How far after 1991?

Simply too vague? You want exactness about a term used to describe a kind of radio station in the United States? You're beyond ridiculous. PRIOR to 1964 means Elvis or Buddy Holly. What else could it mean other than prior? How far after 1991? As far as it can be with whatever is played post-1991.

Define dolor in asinum.