Tell Me :
Talk
I do believe in miracles, and the release of the great Ghost Town could be considered a hint of one, but an entire new Stones album seems out of the cards for the foreseeable future.
Keith has recently said maybe another new single, and Mick has said more sessions are needed but they currently have no plans to get together for work in the studio.
Based on that, hard to imagine a "second wind" aka a new album happening any time soon, unless you ignore the reality and live in a fantasy world.
Meanwhile, the Who's recent album from 2019 is a winner, and the shows I saw at the Hollywood Bowl in 2019 and both Desert Trips in '16 are amongst the most memorable I've ever attended by any band.
And it should be said The Who were WAY better than the Stones at Desert Trip, as was Neil Young, and Roger Waters - the Stones simply lacked energy both weekends imo, and then Mick became sick the second weekend towards the end of the night. Still though, nothing has been worse than the *Vegas '16 show with sick Mick barely able to sing, and an abbreviated setlist. Be thankful you didn't attend that one.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Yes - Jon was the bass player in Roger’s solo band. Pino was already booked to tour with John Mayer in ‘17, The Who weren’t originally going to tour that year but then Roger got sick in ‘16 and things were moved around, additional shows booked, etc. Pino could have come back for the ‘19 orchestral shows but ever since 2012, The Who is Roger’s band, and Roger prefers Jon. Pino did play on a few songs on their 2019 album which was nice to see.
what happened in 2012 that made the Who "Roger's band"?
plexi
Basically, in 2009-11, Pete didn’t want to tour, so Roger mounted a successful arena tour with a solo band. He suddenly had the experience of being in complete control of everything, and he liked it. In 2012, he said he would only tour with The Who if he got to do things his way. In practice this meant:
- firing their longtime keyboard player Rabbit
- installing 3 members of Roger’s solo band, including making Frank Simes the “musical director”
- Putting the drummer behind plexiglass
- Giving Roger complete control of the stage show
...this resulted in the 2012/3 Quadrophenia and More tour, in which Pete strummed rhythm guitar while Roger’s band replicated every note of the studio album. And the 2015-7 tour, which put all the greatest hits through the same formula, including playing My Generation in the original key for the first time since about 1967.
Some great shows resulted from all this, but it’s very much been the Roger show. Pete doesn’t have to sing or play any critical parts. Luckily, Pete is still engaged and playing great, but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible.
I don’t disagree with any of that. Luckily he’s still interested and plays great. But the ‘06/‘07 Endless Wire tour turned out to be the end of Pete as the leader of The Who, at least on tour.
I saw a show that tour and have to say it was The Who at their weakest mainly due to Rogers vocals, but the overall sound paled to the other tours I've seen them - '79, '82, '16, and '19 - something was clearly missing.
I thought for sure that was the end of them, but lo and behold they exploded out of the gates at Desert Trip - the difference between ‘06/‘07 and '16 was like night and day.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
It’s true that Roger had some really bad voice issues in 2006/7. And the whole package did sound amazing in 2012/3. But it really is Roger’s solo act with Pete strumming away. Take this for instance: [youtu.be] It looks and sounds stunning. But if you mixed out PT it would only be marginally noticeable.
I’m glad they’ve found a way to keep going. But the ‘99-07 shows, even the ones after Entwistle died, were still a living breathing rock band. I miss that.
I have a few responses to this Mr. Charles --
What is your source and/or evidence for what you say, in particular the four points? But your overall assertion of Roger's dominance as well.
I agree with Hairball. I too saw them at Desert Trip (weekend 1) and twice at the Hollywood Bowl (in fact, I met up with him briefly before the second show) and I would say Pete was VERY involved in many ways -- in his playing including electric, his vocals, and his usual on-stage running narrative. If he weren't there, it wouldn't have been a Who show IN ANY WAY. You can't say that the show would be the same without Pete. Moreover, he is the intellect and brains behind the Who.
Finally, I am absolutely overjoyed that Zac is now behind a proper wall of PLEXIGLASS!!! I must ask, however, what was (presumably) Roger's reason for insisting on that? Surely not spiritual/religious as it was in Charlie's case wherein the nightly set list was issued by the decree and proclamation of THE PLEXIGLASS Itself as written on its sacred walls (a bit like Moses coming down from Mt. Sinai with The Word written down on stone tablets) to be proclaimed to the people and carried out in the band's performance. The Word made flesh.
PRAISE THE PLEXIGLASS!!!!
plexi
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-16 19:12 by timbernardis.
Townshend said as much in a 2015 Q magazine interview:
"When we did the last tour, I said I would do it if it was ‘Quadrophenia’.
"Roger said he would do it on two conditions, I had to give him complete control creatively and complete control of the band. I thought, ‘F**k, but I may as well give it a try.’
"It was a bit tough for me, I lost a few players I really liked and Roger was a bit of a sergeant major sometimes, but the reviews were spectacular."
Q quotes posted by [www.zapgossip.com]
Well you sort of did by saying:
"But if you mixed out PT it would only be marginally noticeable".
And:
"...but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible".
In other words, and the way I interpreted this, is that Pete is basically a prop, isn’t an active participant in the live shows, and adds very little if anything at all.
But glad you were able to clarify what you actually meant in the end.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
That’s fair, I was definitely imprecise there.
Listened to the 2019 Who album on a walk earlier today (in the 95 degree Seattle heat, this state isn’t built for this...), and I remain really impressed by it. Whatever I said about their stage act above, on this record they managed to sound remarkably like a band - something which I felt they didn’t do on Endless Wire in 2006. I like a lot of the EW songs, but those really feel more like PT demos with vocals on top. The 2019 tracks for the most part sound like people playing in a room.
even though it wasn't from all accounts of their "sessions."
Most of what I've read above relates to the live shows and it does sound like Roger is in control of what goes on but I don't see that he is now, nor has he ever been, the creative force behind the creation of the music of the band. He writes the lyrics and the music itself. Someone said he offers songs to Roger and Roger says yes or no, BUT, that does not mean that Roger creates any songs himself, which is fine and has proven over the decades to be hugely successful. The single greatest concert I have ever seen BY ANY BAND including the Stones was the Who at Winterland in San Francisco 27 March 1976. So powerful, incredible, had to be there and experience that to understand.
And the songs that are recorded are largely what is played live, so in that sense, Pete remains creatively in control live, in the studio or by producers, in short, everything. Roger may react and suggest, but Pete remains the creator.
"Roger has said Pete doesn’t like changing the setlist." Ah ha, where have I heard that before??!!
And what is the deal with Roger wanting Zac behind his plexiglass, why?
plexi
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 01:56 by timbernardis.
As with so many things, it goes back to Roger's 2009 tour, when he put Scott Devours in a plexiglass cage and discovered it made his monitor mix far better. As mentioned earlier, what Rog really learned on that tour was that he could tour on his own in a sustainable way, and so could go back to Pete and lay down the law, knowing that if Pete said no, Roger would keep touring on his own happily. Draw whatever parallels you like to the Stones in 1989.
Forgive me a long quote but this from Daltrey's autobiography is a reasonable summary:
A few words about this from keyboard tech Brian Kehew, this time in the context of Zak using electric drums for the 2019 orchestral shows:
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: August 15, 2020 19:11
Quote
timbernardisQuote
DandelionPowderman
And how many studio albums have The Who released again? Was there any album between 1982 and 2004 at all?
An even longer span than between ABB and now (+ we got B&L).
So fans of other bands have been tormented as well
I think you meant between 1982 and 2006 which is when Endless Wire came out. Maybe the Stones
will catch their second wind too some day, but I know Hairball will disagree.
plexi
I do believe in miracles, and the release of the great Ghost Town could be considered a hint of one, but an entire new Stones album seems out of the cards for the foreseeable future.
Keith has recently said maybe another new single, and Mick has said more sessions are needed but they currently have no plans to get together for work in the studio.
Based on that, hard to imagine a "second wind" aka a new album happening any time soon, unless you ignore the reality and live in a fantasy world.
Meanwhile, the Who's recent album from 2019 is a winner, and the shows I saw at the Hollywood Bowl in 2019 and both Desert Trips in '16 are amongst the most memorable I've ever attended by any band.
And it should be said The Who were WAY better than the Stones at Desert Trip, as was Neil Young, and Roger Waters - the Stones simply lacked energy both weekends imo, and then Mick became sick the second weekend towards the end of the night. Still though, nothing has been worse than the *Vegas '16 show with sick Mick barely able to sing, and an abbreviated setlist. Be thankful you didn't attend that one.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
tommycharles
()
Date: August 15, 2020 21:09
Quote
timbernardisQuote
tommycharles
I’m sure everyone’s seen it who wants to, but the Hyde Park gig is very good. It’s nice to see one from when Pino was still with the band - I much prefer his bass playing to Jon Button... Jon is a fine player in his own right but he sees his job as an Entwistle impersonator, where as Pino brought his own thing to the gig. Jon joining prompted Pete to comment that what Roger really wants is to be in a Who tribute act instead of in the current Who, which I think is pretty astute.
So it was all up to Roger in the hiring of Jon? Why did they part with Pino anyway?
plexi
Yes - Jon was the bass player in Roger’s solo band. Pino was already booked to tour with John Mayer in ‘17, The Who weren’t originally going to tour that year but then Roger got sick in ‘16 and things were moved around, additional shows booked, etc. Pino could have come back for the ‘19 orchestral shows but ever since 2012, The Who is Roger’s band, and Roger prefers Jon. Pino did play on a few songs on their 2019 album which was nice to see.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
crawdaddy
()
Date: August 15, 2020 23:25
Just watched the clip ,and big thanks to bbj for posting. 
Bought back some great memories of a terrific day of such good music by so many bands.............. and the weather was great.
Bought back some great memories of a terrific day of such good music by so many bands.............. and the weather was great.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: August 15, 2020 23:29
Pete and Roger seem more modern and up to date than Mick and Keith.
I've seen them interviewed and they are sharp and honest. I have seen Pete's social media and it's engaging and perceptive.
Mick and Keith have been playing parts for so long they seem to be stuck in 1975.
I've seen them interviewed and they are sharp and honest. I have seen Pete's social media and it's engaging and perceptive.
Mick and Keith have been playing parts for so long they seem to be stuck in 1975.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: August 16, 2020 01:11
Quote
tommycharlesQuote
timbernardisQuote
tommycharles
I’m sure everyone’s seen it who wants to, but the Hyde Park gig is very good. It’s nice to see one from when Pino was still with the band - I much prefer his bass playing to Jon Button... Jon is a fine player in his own right but he sees his job as an Entwistle impersonator, where as Pino brought his own thing to the gig. Jon joining prompted Pete to comment that what Roger really wants is to be in a Who tribute act instead of in the current Who, which I think is pretty astute.
So it was all up to Roger in the hiring of Jon? Why did they part with Pino anyway?
plexi
Yes - Jon was the bass player in Roger’s solo band. Pino was already booked to tour with John Mayer in ‘17, The Who weren’t originally going to tour that year but then Roger got sick in ‘16 and things were moved around, additional shows booked, etc. Pino could have come back for the ‘19 orchestral shows but ever since 2012, The Who is Roger’s band, and Roger prefers Jon. Pino did play on a few songs on their 2019 album which was nice to see.
what happened in 2012 that made the Who "Roger's band"?
plexi
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
tommycharles
()
Date: August 16, 2020 02:39
Quote
timbernardis
what happened in 2012 that made the Who "Roger's band"?
plexi
Basically, in 2009-11, Pete didn’t want to tour, so Roger mounted a successful arena tour with a solo band. He suddenly had the experience of being in complete control of everything, and he liked it. In 2012, he said he would only tour with The Who if he got to do things his way. In practice this meant:
- firing their longtime keyboard player Rabbit
- installing 3 members of Roger’s solo band, including making Frank Simes the “musical director”
- Putting the drummer behind plexiglass
- Giving Roger complete control of the stage show
...this resulted in the 2012/3 Quadrophenia and More tour, in which Pete strummed rhythm guitar while Roger’s band replicated every note of the studio album. And the 2015-7 tour, which put all the greatest hits through the same formula, including playing My Generation in the original key for the first time since about 1967.
Some great shows resulted from all this, but it’s very much been the Roger show. Pete doesn’t have to sing or play any critical parts. Luckily, Pete is still engaged and playing great, but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: August 16, 2020 02:44
Pete played electric at the Desert Trip shows, and was the dominant force imo - musically as well as all of the in between song banter.
Also, last years shows he played electric and was an intergral aka MAJOR part of the show - very much so.
Ultimatelty, all of the shows I attended in 2016 and 2019 would have been much weaker without Pete's involvement - visually, musically, and spiritually.
PS - His renditions of Eminence Front last year at the Hollywoiod Bowl were amongst the highlights - his lead vocals were spot on and the guitar playing was cutting edge.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-16 02:48 by Hairball.
Also, last years shows he played electric and was an intergral aka MAJOR part of the show - very much so.
Ultimatelty, all of the shows I attended in 2016 and 2019 would have been much weaker without Pete's involvement - visually, musically, and spiritually.
PS - His renditions of Eminence Front last year at the Hollywoiod Bowl were amongst the highlights - his lead vocals were spot on and the guitar playing was cutting edge.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-16 02:48 by Hairball.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
tommycharles
()
Date: August 16, 2020 02:49
Quote
Hairball
Pete played electric at the Desert Trip shows, and was the dominant force imo - musically as well as all of the in between song banter.
Also, last years shows he played electric and was an intergral aka MAJOR part of the show - very much so.
Ultimatelty, all of the shows I attended in 2016 and 2019 would have been much weaker without Pete's involvement - visually, musically, and spiritually.
I don’t disagree with any of that. Luckily he’s still interested and plays great. But the ‘06/‘07 Endless Wire tour turned out to be the end of Pete as the leader of The Who, at least on tour.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: August 16, 2020 02:55
Quote
tommycharlesQuote
Hairball
Pete played electric at the Desert Trip shows, and was the dominant force imo - musically as well as all of the in between song banter.
Also, last years shows he played electric and was an intergral aka MAJOR part of the show - very much so.
Ultimatelty, all of the shows I attended in 2016 and 2019 would have been much weaker without Pete's involvement - visually, musically, and spiritually.
I don’t disagree with any of that. Luckily he’s still interested and plays great. But the Endless Wire tour turned out to be the end of Pete as the leader of The Who, at least on tour.
I saw a show that tour and have to say it was The Who at their weakest mainly due to Rogers vocals, but the overall sound paled to the other tours I've seen them - '79, '82, '16, and '19 - something was clearly missing.
I thought for sure that was the end of them, but lo and behold they exploded out of the gates at Desert Trip - the difference between ‘06/‘07 and '16 was like night and day.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: August 16, 2020 04:23
>In 2012, he said he would only tour with The Who if he got to do things his way.
>In practice this meant:
>- firing their longtime keyboard player Rabbit
>- installing 3 members of Roger’s solo band, including making Frank Simes the >“musical director”
>- Putting the drummer behind plexiglass
>- Giving Roger complete control of the stage show
and the most important one:
NO GREEN M&Ms
jb
>In practice this meant:
>- firing their longtime keyboard player Rabbit
>- installing 3 members of Roger’s solo band, including making Frank Simes the >“musical director”
>- Putting the drummer behind plexiglass
>- Giving Roger complete control of the stage show
and the most important one:
NO GREEN M&Ms
jb
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
bam
()
Date: August 16, 2020 06:05
Roger had bad voice problems and had to leave the stage at the Chicago show I saw on the Endless Wire tour; Pete continued without him. I, too, thought they were done.
I think Roger had throat surgery after that. They also made a bigger point of forbidding smoking in the post-2012 shows. I was wowed by how much better they were on the Quadrophenia tour.
I think Roger had throat surgery after that. They also made a bigger point of forbidding smoking in the post-2012 shows. I was wowed by how much better they were on the Quadrophenia tour.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
tommycharles
()
Date: August 16, 2020 09:26
Quote
bam
Roger had bad voice problems and had to leave the stage at the Chicago show I saw on the Endless Wire tour; Pete continued without him. I, too, thought they were done.
I think Roger had throat surgery after that. They also made a bigger point of forbidding smoking in the post-2012 shows. I was wowed by how much better they were on the Quadrophenia tour.
It’s true that Roger had some really bad voice issues in 2006/7. And the whole package did sound amazing in 2012/3. But it really is Roger’s solo act with Pete strumming away. Take this for instance: [youtu.be] It looks and sounds stunning. But if you mixed out PT it would only be marginally noticeable.
I’m glad they’ve found a way to keep going. But the ‘99-07 shows, even the ones after Entwistle died, were still a living breathing rock band. I miss that.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: August 16, 2020 19:09
Quote
tommycharlesQuote
timbernardis
what happened in 2012 that made the Who "Roger's band"?
plexi
Basically, in 2009-11, Pete didn’t want to tour, so Roger mounted a successful arena tour with a solo band. He suddenly had the experience of being in complete control of everything, and he liked it. In 2012, he said he would only tour with The Who if he got to do things his way. In practice this meant:
- firing their longtime keyboard player Rabbit
- installing 3 members of Roger’s solo band, including making Frank Simes the “musical director”
- Putting the drummer behind plexiglass
- Giving Roger complete control of the stage show
...this resulted in the 2012/3 Quadrophenia and More tour, in which Pete strummed rhythm guitar while Roger’s band replicated every note of the studio album. And the 2015-7 tour, which put all the greatest hits through the same formula, including playing My Generation in the original key for the first time since about 1967.
Some great shows resulted from all this, but it’s very much been the Roger show. Pete doesn’t have to sing or play any critical parts. Luckily, Pete is still engaged and playing great, but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible.
I have a few responses to this Mr. Charles --
What is your source and/or evidence for what you say, in particular the four points? But your overall assertion of Roger's dominance as well.
I agree with Hairball. I too saw them at Desert Trip (weekend 1) and twice at the Hollywood Bowl (in fact, I met up with him briefly before the second show) and I would say Pete was VERY involved in many ways -- in his playing including electric, his vocals, and his usual on-stage running narrative. If he weren't there, it wouldn't have been a Who show IN ANY WAY. You can't say that the show would be the same without Pete. Moreover, he is the intellect and brains behind the Who.
Finally, I am absolutely overjoyed that Zac is now behind a proper wall of PLEXIGLASS!!! I must ask, however, what was (presumably) Roger's reason for insisting on that? Surely not spiritual/religious as it was in Charlie's case wherein the nightly set list was issued by the decree and proclamation of THE PLEXIGLASS Itself as written on its sacred walls (a bit like Moses coming down from Mt. Sinai with The Word written down on stone tablets) to be proclaimed to the people and carried out in the band's performance. The Word made flesh.
PRAISE THE PLEXIGLASS!!!!
plexi
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-16 19:12 by timbernardis.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: August 16, 2020 21:47
Based on all the facts that many of us know and have witnessed for ourselves, the theory that The Who is now Roger's band with Pete being severely marginalized to the point of being unnecessary...
well, sounds like some oddball conspiracy theory to me that is based on fantasy vs. reality. and ultimately holds no water.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
well, sounds like some oddball conspiracy theory to me that is based on fantasy vs. reality. and ultimately holds no water.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Braincapers
()
Date: August 16, 2020 22:47
I thought it was telling in Roger's autobiography how little there was about recording albums because it seemed that apart from getting Pete to change a few lyrics he had little creative input. In fact wasn't the latest album effectively recorded without him with Rog coming in at the end to add vocals?
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
bye bye johnny
()
Date: August 16, 2020 23:04
Quote
timbernardisQuote
tommycharlesQuote
timbernardis
what happened in 2012 that made the Who "Roger's band"?
plexi
Basically, in 2009-11, Pete didn’t want to tour, so Roger mounted a successful arena tour with a solo band. He suddenly had the experience of being in complete control of everything, and he liked it. In 2012, he said he would only tour with The Who if he got to do things his way. In practice this meant:
- firing their longtime keyboard player Rabbit
- installing 3 members of Roger’s solo band, including making Frank Simes the “musical director”
- Putting the drummer behind plexiglass
- Giving Roger complete control of the stage show
...this resulted in the 2012/3 Quadrophenia and More tour, in which Pete strummed rhythm guitar while Roger’s band replicated every note of the studio album. And the 2015-7 tour, which put all the greatest hits through the same formula, including playing My Generation in the original key for the first time since about 1967.
Some great shows resulted from all this, but it’s very much been the Roger show. Pete doesn’t have to sing or play any critical parts. Luckily, Pete is still engaged and playing great, but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible.
I have a few responses to this Mr. Charles --
What is your source and/or evidence for what you say, in particular the four points?
Townshend said as much in a 2015 Q magazine interview:
"When we did the last tour, I said I would do it if it was ‘Quadrophenia’.
"Roger said he would do it on two conditions, I had to give him complete control creatively and complete control of the band. I thought, ‘F**k, but I may as well give it a try.’
"It was a bit tough for me, I lost a few players I really liked and Roger was a bit of a sergeant major sometimes, but the reviews were spectacular."
Q quotes posted by [www.zapgossip.com]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
bam
()
Date: August 16, 2020 23:14
The touring band currently consist of Roger’s backup musicians, including Pete’s brother Simon, who has toured with Roger, plus Pete and Zak. [www.thewho.com]
Pete is still very engaged in the shows, but Roger plans them.
Roger has said Pete doesn’t like changing the setlist, has difficulty remembering words much, and doesn’t remember chord shapes.
Pete writes songs, and occasionally offers some to Roger. Roger decides if they suit him enough to record. They do not record in the same studio, and communicate through their individual producers. Pete has said he no longer considers it a band. [www.rolling-stone.com]
Pete is still very engaged in the shows, but Roger plans them.
Roger has said Pete doesn’t like changing the setlist, has difficulty remembering words much, and doesn’t remember chord shapes.
Pete writes songs, and occasionally offers some to Roger. Roger decides if they suit him enough to record. They do not record in the same studio, and communicate through their individual producers. Pete has said he no longer considers it a band. [www.rolling-stone.com]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
mosthigh
()
Date: August 16, 2020 23:15
As far as the sacking of John 'Rabbit' Bundrick' goes, it seems he and Roger had a falling out beyond repair - with few details.
It is well known Rabbit was a drinker, and he nearly got fired by Pete during the 1989 tour reharsals. So maybe that was a factor after the Endless Wire tour. In the 2015 Rolling Stone interview, Pete also mentions something about Rabbit's mental health as well.
You can read Rabbit's diaries from various years (including his near-sacking in 1989) on his website.
His last entry from 2006, titled: 'Demons of the universe VS earth's children of faith' is slightly peculiar and telling, to say the least.
[www.rabbitwho.com]
It is well known Rabbit was a drinker, and he nearly got fired by Pete during the 1989 tour reharsals. So maybe that was a factor after the Endless Wire tour. In the 2015 Rolling Stone interview, Pete also mentions something about Rabbit's mental health as well.
You can read Rabbit's diaries from various years (including his near-sacking in 1989) on his website.
His last entry from 2006, titled: 'Demons of the universe VS earth's children of faith' is slightly peculiar and telling, to say the least.
[www.rabbitwho.com]
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
tommycharles
()
Date: August 17, 2020 00:23
Thanks all for providing those quotes and corroboration above. In no way was I suggesting Pete isn’t an active participant in the live shows, he strums guitar, he solos in the slots designated for it, he jumps about, he banters between the songs. But the days of him leading the band from the front are over. Check any version of My Generation from 2006 - Pino, Zak, and Rabbit all following PT’s lead, jamming away in their own world. No longer.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: August 17, 2020 00:31
Quote
tommycharles
In no way was I suggesting Pete isn’t an active participant in the live shows
Well you sort of did by saying:
"But if you mixed out PT it would only be marginally noticeable".
And:
"...but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible".
In other words, and the way I interpreted this, is that Pete is basically a prop, isn’t an active participant in the live shows, and adds very little if anything at all.
But glad you were able to clarify what you actually meant in the end.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
bam
()
Date: August 17, 2020 00:35
The essence of The Who live in the Keith Moon days was that four great rock musicians were competing against each other. That attitude left with Keith.
Even without Keith, they still were spectacular. I saw them in ‘99 at the Bridge School Benefit, when the Ox was still with them. They were maybe 60% of what they had been, and still blew every other act off the stage.
Roger and Pete have a great catalogue of music. They can still make good new music. They can still deliver live at a high level. We can enjoy whatever they give us. But it’s not exactly The Who playing live anymore.
Even without Keith, they still were spectacular. I saw them in ‘99 at the Bridge School Benefit, when the Ox was still with them. They were maybe 60% of what they had been, and still blew every other act off the stage.
Roger and Pete have a great catalogue of music. They can still make good new music. They can still deliver live at a high level. We can enjoy whatever they give us. But it’s not exactly The Who playing live anymore.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
tommycharles
()
Date: August 17, 2020 00:49
Quote
Hairball
"...but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible".
In other words, and the way I interpreted this, is that Pete is basically a prop, isn’t an active participant in the live shows, and adds very little if anything at all.
But glad you were able to clarify what you actually meant in the end.
That’s fair, I was definitely imprecise there.
Listened to the 2019 Who album on a walk earlier today (in the 95 degree Seattle heat, this state isn’t built for this...), and I remain really impressed by it. Whatever I said about their stage act above, on this record they managed to sound remarkably like a band - something which I felt they didn’t do on Endless Wire in 2006. I like a lot of the EW songs, but those really feel more like PT demos with vocals on top. The 2019 tracks for the most part sound like people playing in a room.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: August 17, 2020 01:55
Quote
tommycharlesQuote
Hairball
"...but if he missed a show, it would be the same as if Keith missed a Stones show - the difference would be visual, not audible".
In other words, and the way I interpreted this, is that Pete is basically a prop, isn’t an active participant in the live shows, and adds very little if anything at all.
But glad you were able to clarify what you actually meant in the end.
That’s fair, I was definitely imprecise there.
Listened to the 2019 Who album on a walk earlier today (in the 95 degree Seattle heat, this state isn’t built for this...), and I remain really impressed by it. Whatever I said about their stage act above, on this record they managed to sound remarkably like a band - something which I felt they didn’t do on Endless Wire in 2006. I like a lot of the EW songs, but those really feel more like PT demos with vocals on top. The 2019 tracks for the most part sound like people playing in a room.
even though it wasn't from all accounts of their "sessions."
Most of what I've read above relates to the live shows and it does sound like Roger is in control of what goes on but I don't see that he is now, nor has he ever been, the creative force behind the creation of the music of the band. He writes the lyrics and the music itself. Someone said he offers songs to Roger and Roger says yes or no, BUT, that does not mean that Roger creates any songs himself, which is fine and has proven over the decades to be hugely successful. The single greatest concert I have ever seen BY ANY BAND including the Stones was the Who at Winterland in San Francisco 27 March 1976. So powerful, incredible, had to be there and experience that to understand.
And the songs that are recorded are largely what is played live, so in that sense, Pete remains creatively in control live, in the studio or by producers, in short, everything. Roger may react and suggest, but Pete remains the creator.
"Roger has said Pete doesn’t like changing the setlist." Ah ha, where have I heard that before??!!
And what is the deal with Roger wanting Zac behind his plexiglass, why?
plexi
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 01:56 by timbernardis.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: August 17, 2020 02:12
Imagine a Who concert where none of the songs performed were written by Pete...lol...would it still be a Who concert?
Regarding last years new album, I think Roger had said that Pete sent him demos, and Roger might have changed a melody line here or there...maybe adding or subtracting a word to a lyric...in other words not much of a contribution to the songwriting itself. That doesn't take away from his contributions as one of the greatest front men and singers ever, but there's no real question who is and will always be the leader of the band, and that would be Pete Townshend no matter what sort of "power" he has handed over to Roger for live shows.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Regarding last years new album, I think Roger had said that Pete sent him demos, and Roger might have changed a melody line here or there...maybe adding or subtracting a word to a lyric...in other words not much of a contribution to the songwriting itself. That doesn't take away from his contributions as one of the greatest front men and singers ever, but there's no real question who is and will always be the leader of the band, and that would be Pete Townshend no matter what sort of "power" he has handed over to Roger for live shows.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
mosthigh
()
Date: August 17, 2020 02:24
Roger likely wants Zak behind plexiglass so he can hear himself and not be overpowered by the drums. This also lets Zak cut loose and not have to hold back.
Roger does wear in-ear monitors some of the time - or maybe one in, one out, but he is infamous for berating other musicians (the Ox, for one) for loud stage volume, right from the beginning.
Roger does wear in-ear monitors some of the time - or maybe one in, one out, but he is infamous for berating other musicians (the Ox, for one) for loud stage volume, right from the beginning.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
tommycharles
()
Date: August 17, 2020 02:30
Quote
timbernardis
And what is the deal with Roger wanting Zac behind his plexiglass, why?
As with so many things, it goes back to Roger's 2009 tour, when he put Scott Devours in a plexiglass cage and discovered it made his monitor mix far better. As mentioned earlier, what Rog really learned on that tour was that he could tour on his own in a sustainable way, and so could go back to Pete and lay down the law, knowing that if Pete said no, Roger would keep touring on his own happily. Draw whatever parallels you like to the Stones in 1989.
Forgive me a long quote but this from Daltrey's autobiography is a reasonable summary:
Quote
In 2011, I sang Tommy at the Albert Hall with my band. As I’ve said, each year, I have to organize six or seven gigs in one spring week for Teenage Cancer Trust. And it’s quite a challenge finding people who are not just on the road but also have a gap in their schedule. That year, after a lot of hustling, I was still one short so I decided to fill it myself. To my genuine surprise, it was a sellout. I’m not being coy here. It wasn’t The Who. It was me and my band. No Pete. No Zak. But people still came and we had a fantastic night.
Off the back of that, my little band went on tour and, for the first time in a long time, everything ran like clockwork. People turned up on time. People did what they said they were going to do. Lovely.
This was not how things were with The Who. Although we were enjoying the music again, the grind of touring was hard because people were effing about. If one person’s late for a hotel transfer, then you’re all waiting. And if that happens at every point of the day, you spend your whole bloody time waiting. And it’s not that I’m an impatient man, but I hate lateness. I hate wasting time. If we arrange to meet at a certain time and you’re half an hour late, then that’s half an hour of my life I’m never going to get back. If you have a proper excuse—you got stuck in the lift, you fell down a mine shaft—then fine. But if you just couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed, then not fine. I enjoy my life. I don’t have a lot of it to spare. On tour, there’s enough schlepping already without the extra hassle of standing around in hotel lobbies or departure lounges because one guy couldn’t get his act together.
So when Pete said we were going to do Quadrophenia the way we’d always done it with a band that couldn’t get out of bed on time, I just said no. We’d met to discuss it with Robert and Bill. Pete was adamant, I was adamant, and that was it. Another tour that wouldn’t happen because neither of us would budge.
I remember going off from that meeting feeling quite happy. I honestly thought that would be it because it was different from all the other times we’d stopped. I was enjoying my solo projects. I didn’t need to carry on. Why put myself through months and months of grief?
A few words about this from keyboard tech Brian Kehew, this time in the context of Zak using electric drums for the 2019 orchestral shows:
- [www.thewho.com]Quote
Our biggest change is the drums – not mentioned much yet, but here are the details: On Roger’s tour, Scott Devours was playing drums, but the volume of a rock drummer was just too much when only feet away from orchestral instruments. So Scott was surrounded in Plexiglas (Perspex in England) shields on all sides, and there was even talk of putting a “roof” of Plexi over the kit, too (which requires an air-conditioner system – a noise issue of its own.) Besides the clunky nature of setting this up, the drummer has to climb in and out, as does his roadie trying to fix a snare drum or cymbal, which makes it nearly unworkable. Besides, it’s not fully clear – the drummer is in a fishbowl of plastic, not a good visual, no matter how you try to hide it. On the good side, the lead vocal microphone (always LOUD in the mix) doesn’t have so much spill of the drum sound into it, so when Roger walks back and forth, it doesn’t change the drum sound when he gets close or far.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: August 17, 2020 05:13
I can totally see where Daltrey is coming from in almost all ways.
Its him who has to sing the songs, so if lyrics don't work right for singing them, they should be changed, or get another vocalist.
And on stage its him out front so I am sure he would prefer some or a lot of control over the band playing with him, if only for the sake of not embarrassing himself.
And how true about dealing with continually tardy people. That would be a total pain. I am the same way: we make a deal on meeting at a certain time, I expect you to be there at or near that time. If my business depended on it, I would be even more demanding about it.
And about the plexi walls, I didn't understand the point, but now totally see the rationale for it. If you cannot sing because you are having to shout over a din, that can be a problem. If for the technical side, the drum levels are affected by you moving into and out of the microphone, thats a problem too.
It all sounds like perfectly professional concerns to me, and not the usual "rock star" prima donna stuff you hear so much about.
Pretty much 180 degrees from what I figured the issues might be.
Is that Ringo's son playing drums?
jb
Its him who has to sing the songs, so if lyrics don't work right for singing them, they should be changed, or get another vocalist.
And on stage its him out front so I am sure he would prefer some or a lot of control over the band playing with him, if only for the sake of not embarrassing himself.
And how true about dealing with continually tardy people. That would be a total pain. I am the same way: we make a deal on meeting at a certain time, I expect you to be there at or near that time. If my business depended on it, I would be even more demanding about it.
And about the plexi walls, I didn't understand the point, but now totally see the rationale for it. If you cannot sing because you are having to shout over a din, that can be a problem. If for the technical side, the drum levels are affected by you moving into and out of the microphone, thats a problem too.
It all sounds like perfectly professional concerns to me, and not the usual "rock star" prima donna stuff you hear so much about.
Pretty much 180 degrees from what I figured the issues might be.
Is that Ringo's son playing drums?
jb
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: August 17, 2020 05:58
Evidently Roger had been angrily yelling at people in the audience for smoking weed, but I guess that's a legit concern for him also considering his vocal and health issues from the past.
Didn't hear any of that at either of the Desert Trip or two Hollywood Bowl shows I attended (and I smelled LOTS of weed at all of those shows), but maybe because those are open space outdoor venues.
Via NME, May 2019: Roger vs. The Weed
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 06:02 by Hairball.
Didn't hear any of that at either of the Desert Trip or two Hollywood Bowl shows I attended (and I smelled LOTS of weed at all of those shows), but maybe because those are open space outdoor venues.
Via NME, May 2019: Roger vs. The Weed
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 06:02 by Hairball.
Re: OT: The Who stuff
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: August 17, 2020 06:45
Huh. Well, puff, puff, pass.
Though theres obviously not much of that going on at the moment. The passing I mean.
jb
Though theres obviously not much of that going on at the moment. The passing I mean.
jb
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