I have to find the book in a public library or get ebook via overdrive from a public library.

I just don't want to pay for the book unless I know it's worthy.

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nightskyman
I have to find the book in a public library or get ebook via overdrive from a public library.

I just don't want to pay for the book unless I know it's worthy.

If a book that is very anti Mick, Keith and Andrew is your thing then this is the book for you.

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Gemini

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nightskyman
I have to find the book in a public library or get ebook via overdrive from a public library.

I just don't want to pay for the book unless I know it's worthy.

If a book that is very anti Mick, Keith and Andrew is your thing then this is the book for you.

yeah its possible to browse this book and get that.

I think Bill's first book is probably the best account of the early Stones in general and Brian in particular.

This book is ok. But the main thing in this book is the trouble between Brian, Keith, Mick and Andrew. The music isn't really been discussed here, unfortunately. And the last years of Brian is old news and nothing special or something...

At first Brian is portrayed as the fearless blues crusader who wanted to bring his passion to the masses. Then he becomes the tragic victim, worn down not only by the vendetta that British law enforcement had against him, but mainly by the conspiracies of the singer and guitar player he had hired. Definitely skewed but worth reading.

Edit: To be fair, the author does detail Brian's unfortunate fall into the Mandrax, tranquilizer haze.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-21 01:56 by bleedingman.

I wonder how many books there have been written about Brian Jones. A hundred?

I bought this book and think its good for the coverage of Brian's early years and the quotes from people who knew him.

Just read the book in one go.
Fascinating read.
But we will never know how much is fiction and what is real.
If half of this is true it's allready a bloody shame.
But it pictures Brian as the originator of the band together with Stu.
For me this is by far the best book about Brian and the start of the band.
Pity Brian and Bill are photoshopped out of the band and it's memory.

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Virtual_Nobody
Pity Brian and Bill are photoshopped out of the band and it's memory.

No, not true at all. I do not understand why some on board here think this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-21 17:43 by nightskyman.

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Stoneage
I wonder how many books there have been written about Brian Jones. A hundred?

101 now.

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nightskyman

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Virtual_Nobody
Pity Brian and Bill are photoshopped out of the band and it's memory.

No, not true at all. I do not understand why some on board here think this.

A lot of people believe this. I don't see it at all. Although I love Brian Jones and I found him to be the most fascinating Stone, and to me the Brian Jones era is my favorite era of their music, I do not believe he is being air-brushed from the history of the band. This is very popular belief with some of these Brian Jones Facebook pages as well. First off, it's impossible to do. Secondly, the band still exists and they are into promoting the band today and not of the Sixties. Okay, Keith didn't talk about Brian much in his autobiography, but what did anyone expect? Keith has been ripping into the guy for years and I wasn't shocked by the little mention of Brian in his book. During their 2012 50th Anniversary Tour the band showed old photos from when Brian was with the band on a huge screen behind the stage whenever they played a song from the Brian era. The new book the Stones just released has a lot of photos from the Brian Jones era in it as well. Christ, the book even has a photo from the Between The Buttons photo shoot at Primrose Hill on the cover. [www.amazon.com]

One of the new stories in the book is how Keith Richards is lying about Ry Cooder being the one who turned him on to the open-G tuning which he used on a lot of Stones classics like Honky Tonk Woman, Brown Sugar and Start Me Up. He claims Brian used it when he played slide guitar and quotes early Rollin' Stone, Dick Taylor as telling him that Brian showed both he and Keith this tuning in 1962/63. It is probably true that Brian may have shown both Dick Taylor and Keith open-G tuning early on but it doesn't mean Keith had any interest in it then, or maybe felt as though that tuning is only good if you play slide guitar - which Keith didn't. From what I believe Keith didn't start using open-G tuning in Stones songs until he started hanging out with Ry Cooder in 1968/69, so I can see why Keith credits Ry Cooder and not Brian. Maybe it was the way Ry Cooder showed Keith or explained it to him where it just clicked and made more sense to him. If Keith happened to use that tuning before he met Ry Cooder then I could see the authors point, but from what I understand this is not the case. This open-G tuning story people have been pointing out all over the Internet since the books release and Keith is getting hammered for it by Brian fan's, in book reviews, and anyone else who reads the book. The author believes this is just an example of how the band is not giving Brian credit where he deserves it. Personally I don't agree with the author on this. This is just one of many things. A lot of Mick, Keith and Andrew bashing. Read this one review.
[www.theaquarian.com]

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originalstones

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nightskyman

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Virtual_Nobody
Pity Brian and Bill are photoshopped out of the band and it's memory.

No, not true at all. I do not understand why some on board here think this.

A lot of people believe this. I don't see it at all. Although I love Brian Jones and I found him to be the most fascinating Stone, and to me the Brian Jones era is my favorite era of their music, I do not believe he is being air-brushed from the history of the band. This is very popular belief with some of these Brian Jones Facebook pages as well. First off, it's impossible to do. Secondly, the band still exists and they are into promoting the band today and not of the Sixties. Okay, Keith didn't talk about Brian much in his autobiography, but what did anyone expect? Keith has been ripping into the guy for years and I wasn't shocked by the little mention of Brian in his book. During their 2012 50th Anniversary Tour the band showed old photos from when Brian was with the band on a huge screen behind the stage whenever they played a song from the Brian era. The new book the Stones just released has a lot of photos from the Brian Jones era in it as well. Christ, the book even has a photo from the Between The Buttons photo shoot at Primrose Hill on the cover. [www.amazon.com]

One of the new stories in the book is how Keith Richards is lying about Ry Cooder being the one who turned him on to the open-G tuning which he used on a lot of Stones classics like Honky Tonk Woman, Brown Sugar and Start Me Up. He claims Brian used it when he played slide guitar and quotes early Rollin' Stone, Dick Taylor as telling him that Brian showed both he and Keith this tuning in 1962/63. It is probably true that Brian may have shown both Dick Taylor and Keith open-G tuning early on but it doesn't mean Keith had any interest in it then, or maybe felt as though that tuning is only good if you play slide guitar - which Keith didn't. From what I believe Keith didn't start using open-G tuning in Stones songs until he started hanging out with Ry Cooder in 1968/69, so I can see why Keith credits Ry Cooder and not Brian. Maybe it was the way Ry Cooder showed Keith or explained it to him where it just clicked and made more sense to him. If Keith happened to use that tuning before he met Ry Cooder then I could see the authors point, but from what I understand this is not the case. This open-G tuning story people have been pointing out all over the Internet since the books release and Keith is getting hammered for it by Brian fan's, in book reviews, and anyone else who reads the book. The author believes this is just an example of how the band is not giving Brian credit where he deserves it. Personally I don't agree with the author on this. This is just one of many things. A lot of Mick, Keith and Andrew bashing. Read this one review.
[www.theaquarian.com]

Have to agree about the open tuning. Keith I'm sure was well aware Brian used open G and E tunings to play slide in the early days but was not interested. Open E on I Wanna Be Your Man. He was all Chuck this Chuck that back then. And probably naive that open tuning was only for slide guitar like everyone else was I'm sure. When Ry showed him that you could play open without slide that's when he turned on to it. I still found it the best book ever written on Brian. I liked the detail on his Cheltenham years and all his musical experience before the Stones. He really was far ahead of Mick and Keith when they met.

I'm reading the book now. I agree that Trynka's description of Brian's early years in Cheltenham being the best part of the book. The rest is hit or miss, and falls into a familiar trap of bashing of Mick, Keith and especially Oldham.

Also, the book jumps around too much in each chapter, a little frustrating for me. But, I'm still enjoying the book and I'm thinking this is first of more and better attempts to write a true biography of Brian Jones.

Finally found it in the local library. It's better than I thought it would be, and,thankfully, he stays away from those god awful murder conspiracies. Nothing startling, but it did further illuminate the narrative we've been nibbling away at here for some time, that Brian started the band, and his DNA is everywhere, from the kind of music played, to the dark edge, to the look of the band. When Brian died Mick became the fashion plate (with varying success) and purveyor of pan sexuality (although Brian, curiously, always remained masculine). Keith took the darkness and rebellion.

It is more obvious after reading the book that Brian was quite ahead of his time. We really might not know much about blues in the States if Brian hadn't been the music's John the Baptist and brought it back to our shores. I also found it fascinating that Brian wanted to mix his Joujouka tapes with R&B musicians. This didn't happen in the pop world until almost the 2000s, with chill music.

Yes, there's some Mick bashing, but we never truly get to hear Mick's side of it. I sympathize with them having to deal with a difficult person who they knew had so much to contribute, but didn't. The very sensitivity that gives Brian his unique, ethereal touch, is probably what brought him down.

The book is a good contribution to the Brian story. Especially with the insight into his family life. If you could fold this book in with a couple other Jones bios, and the great Mojo long article from 1999, you'd get a pretty rounded idea of what this guy was all about. He was too ahead of his time for his own good. Too cutting edge on drugs to understand the dangers. Too soon for celebrity rehabs like the Betty Ford Clinic. He could be an angel and the devil, with some deep character flaws hard to dismiss. Yes, as Bill Wyman intimates, he does deserve a pardon after all this time. And yes, the band could admit that he was the spark that lit the Stones, not the meeting at Dartford Station.

There are a couple references to recent events, and their dismissive treatment of Bill. I started thinking of the remains that get on stage for a kings ransom and call themselves The Rolling Stones. I realized that the Brian influence that chugged through their music has finally faded. What's left has little but rag time piano nostalgia for the old days. There's maybe a second or two of danger left when Keith let's loose the first chords of Jumping Jack Flash, but that's it, like expecting more flavor from the first sip of a beer and then there's nothing.

I guess Mick and Keith, with all their millions upon millions, and idolatry, are still small enough to deny Brian his rightful place, and to seriously discuss his musical accomplishments within the band. It doesn't take away from Mick and Keith brilliant songwriting, but diminishes them as people.

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24FPS
Finally found it in the local library. It's better than I thought it would be, and,thankfully, he stays away from those god awful murder conspiracies. Nothing startling, but it did further illuminate the narrative we've been nibbling away at here for some time, that Brian started the band, and his DNA is everywhere, from the kind of music played, to the dark edge, to the look of the band. When Brian died Mick became the fashion plate (with varying success) and purveyor of pan sexuality (although Brian, curiously, always remained masculine). Keith took the darkness and rebellion.

It is more obvious after reading the book that Brian was quite ahead of his time. We really might not know much about blues in the States if Brian hadn't been the music's John the Baptist and brought it back to our shores. I also found it fascinating that Brian wanted to mix his Joujouka tapes with R&B musicians. This didn't happen in the pop world until almost the 2000s, with chill music.

Yes, there's some Mick bashing, but we never truly get to hear Mick's side of it. I sympathize with them having to deal with a difficult person who they knew had so much to contribute, but didn't. The very sensitivity that gives Brian his unique, ethereal touch, is probably what brought him down.

The book is a good contribution to the Brian story. Especially with the insight into his family life. If you could fold this book in with a couple other Jones bios, and the great Mojo long article from 1999, you'd get a pretty rounded idea of what this guy was all about. He was too ahead of his time for his own good. Too cutting edge on drugs to understand the dangers. Too soon for celebrity rehabs like the Betty Ford Clinic. He could be an angel and the devil, with some deep character flaws hard to dismiss. Yes, as Bill Wyman intimates, he does deserve a pardon after all this time. And yes, the band could admit that he was the spark that lit the Stones, not the meeting at Dartford Station.

There are a couple references to recent events, and their dismissive treatment of Bill. I started thinking of the remains that get on stage for a kings ransom and call themselves The Rolling Stones. I realized that the Brian influence that chugged through their music has finally faded. What's left has little but rag time piano nostalgia for the old days. There's maybe a second or two of danger left when Keith let's loose the first chords of Jumping Jack Flash, but that's it, like expecting more flavor from the first sip of a beer and then there's nothing.

I guess Mick and Keith, with all their millions upon millions, and idolatry, are still small enough to deny Brian his rightful place, and to seriously discuss his musical accomplishments within the band. It doesn't take away from Mick and Keith brilliant songwriting, but diminishes them as people.

yeah, as bad as Keith got later, and as much as he jeopardized the band, he wasn't in any danger of getting fired like Brian..too much at stake, and he always seemed to pull through to work.

thanks 24FPS, very thoughtful

Interesting post 24FPS, thanks for the insight into the book and some of your own. A few comments are a bit strange.....

"I started thinking of the remains that get on stage for a kings ransom and call themselves The Rolling Stones"

What do expect them to call themselves? The music they play is mostly created after Brian's contributions and they have certainly done enough hard work to own the name and the legacy.

I don't think they specifically deny that Brian was the spark that created the Stones. Stu and Charlie have both been quoted as saying it was Brian's band to start with. I think the meeting at the Dartford station is more significant because of the great songwriting team that Jagger/Richards became, the longevity of that team and that we all love a good story of "brothers". It was the journalists asking the question "How did you two meet?" that created the story which has become the "spark", more so than Keith and Mick ever saying so.

"There's maybe a second or two of danger left when Keith let's loose the first chords of Jumping Jack Flash, but that's it, like expecting more flavor from the first sip of a beer and then there's nothing.

lmfao. I might just agree with you on this one. I also prefer the danger of old to the nostalgia of new. Anyway thanks for the post. peace



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-05 09:10 by Naturalust.

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Naturalust

"I started thinking of the remains that get on stage for a kings ransom and call themselves The Rolling Stones"

What do expect them to call themselves? The music they play is mostly created after Brian's contributions and they have certainly done enough hard work to own the name and the legacy.

Yeah, I know, but the music has gotten so far from its roots. It grated on me when I listened to Tokyo '90 the other day and I heard the good timey piano tinkling over the top of Midnight Rambler. And then some of the songs had this god awful tacked on Vegas endings like they were being played on some 1960s variety show by the house orchestra. Now it's Mick, miraculously preserved, with musical accompaniment just hanging on to create a close facsimile of what once was. The blues is the root of the Rolling Stones mystery, and they've drifted far from them. Pop has always been an element of the blues/rock/pop meld that put them in the rock pantheon, but was never supposed to be the whole meal.

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24FPS
Yeah, I know, but the music has gotten so far from its roots. It grated on me when I listened to Tokyo '90 the other day and I heard the good timey piano tinkling over the top of Midnight Rambler. And then some of the songs had this god awful tacked on Vegas endings like they were being played on some 1960s variety show by the house orchestra. Now it's Mick, miraculously preserved, with musical accompaniment just hanging on to create a close facsimile of what once was. The blues is the root of the Rolling Stones mystery, and they've drifted far from them.. Pop has always been an element of the blues/rock/pop meld that put them in the rock pantheon, but was never supposed to be the whole meal.

Just finish your plate like like the rest of your brothers and sisters, don't you know there are people starving out there?

I do understand your frustration over what the Stones have become. But, not necessarily from the blues roots perspective you say, I preferred the golden era where the country crept in and the vocal harmonies were loose and sweet. And unfortunately, they have drifted away from pulling those tunes off without the Vegas type polish that kind of grates a bit.

They've been playing these same songs for so long now, with accomplished and dutiful sidemen that they're bound to lose some of the edge and replace it with pop polish. It would be easier to judge if they were playing new tunes that we haven't heard back when they were rough and exciting. But in the end I'm still glad we have the Stones to play the nostalgic tributes to themselves because it's become more than just the music. peace

The author also emphasizes the role that Brian's asthma played in his insecurity. He wanted to play sports but couldn't and this defect steered him deeper into music. I had severe asthma as a child and it really does make one feel isolated and inferior. Fortunately I grew out of it but Brian suffered right up until his death. I can't imagine being a cigarette smoker, not to mention all the second-hand smoke he was exposed to, while suffering from that condition.

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bleedingman
The author also emphasizes the role that Brian's asthma played in his insecurity. He wanted to play sports but couldn't and this defect steered him deeper into music. I had severe asthma as a child and it really does make one feel isolated and inferior. Fortunately I grew out of it but Brian suffered right up until his death. I can't imagine being a cigarette smoker, not to mention all the second-hand smoke he was exposed to, while suffering from that condition.

Not just the smoking, which was bad enough, but the general tearing down of his physical health from constant drug use and disrupted sleep. On top of this was the grueling work required to tour and crank out hit singles. Brian, especially, should have been doing the very opposite, no cigarettes and moderate drug use. Mick has proven over time that moderation is the way to go. Again, Brian was born too soon. People began talking about better diets and quitting cigarettes in the 70s. Brian was ahead of his time, but was also a tragedy of his time, the canary in the coal mine of the 60s. Unfortunately no one took notice and we had Jimi/Janis/Jim Morrison in quick succession.

Cocaine, amphetamines, downers all lead to asthmatic problems and if you already have asthma?

The Rolling Stones grew out of the Little Boy Blue bedroom group, which was already playing R&B covers. Brian was a catalyst because he was accepted by Alexis Korner and playing realistic blues guitar. He was charismatic and talented, but Mick and Keith were the enthusiastic rockers. The teaming up of the three attracted Charlie and the Stones were born. If anything different had happened, well, it would have been different.

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TeddyB1018
The Rolling Stones grew out of the Little Boy Blue bedroom group, which was already playing R&B covers. Brian was a catalyst because he was accepted by Alexis Korner and playing realistic blues guitar. He was charismatic and talented, but Mick and Keith were the enthusiastic rockers. The teaming up of the three attracted Charlie and the Stones were born. If anything different had happened, well, it would have been different.

Ah, but the book reiterates that Brian was the enthusiastic one who pushed them in the beginning. Mick really didn't leave LSE behind until Brian had gotten them enough gigs to make it worthwhile. Maybe Mick & Keith might have been something on their own, but it would have taken them a lot longer without Brian's musical expertise. And whatever they created wouldn't have had the musical depth and diversity over time. It was Brian's slide on I Wanna Be Your Man that first got people to take notice. It was Brian who created the first original and indelible Stones riff on The Last Time. Much like Lennon, it was Brian's vision and push that got them off the launch pad. And, like Lennon, he was eventually overshadowed.

I'll go along with most of that, though Lennon was a great singer and songwriter as well, unlike Brian (certainly we can agree on the singing part at least).

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TeddyB1018
I'll go along with most of that, though Lennon was a great singer and songwriter as well, unlike Brian (certainly we can agree on the singing part at least).

Well, it's not a perfect analogy. Obviously Lennon was a much larger figure than Brian. But Brian was much more into 'adult' music than the Beatles were. And both were the glue that held their groups together, until Brian took himself out of the picture. The Stones were forced to go on without Brian, even before he was officially out of the group. The Beatles ended when Lennon left, but didn't announce it. He wasn't even around for their last recording session in January of 1970.

I think of Brian as a shooting star that ignited something special, changed the music world and it's appreciation of the blues, and then slowly disintegrated. But it's important to recognize him for his contribution, because it seems to take outsiders like Trynka to get the whole story out, because Mick & Keith, and even Charlie, don't seem interested.

I've been meaning to write about this book for some time. Paul Trynka has really done his homework, and all the material about Brian's early days is fascinating: it shows that the person the other members of the band met in Ealing was already a much more experienced musician, a rebel already determined to create his own band and with the drive and commitment to make it a success. Brian's contribution was huge - which is why I am uncomfortable with Mr. Trynka's determination to make it even huger, and to persuade us that everything distinctive about the band, right down to Keith's open tunings, has essentially been stolen from Brian by those other evil Stones (and ALO), and that the Stones after/without Brian have nothing original to give. He undermines his case by overstating it. Everybody learned a lot from Brian, but the argument about Ry Cooder becomes relevant here - at what point does learning become stealing? (by the way, I think Keith in the early days would have seen the open tunings as something for slide players only - it was Ry who opened his eyes to other possibilities).

He does not try to pretend that Brian wasn't a difficult character to live and work with, or that he wasn't a selfish and irresponsible (though charming) genius - and he gives us plenty of reasons why Brian may have turned out that way, given the childhood that he had. So: a genius AND an @#$%&, and, as 24FPS says, the shooting star that ignited the band. They owe him an enormous amount - but Paul Trynka wants to insist that they owe him everything, and after a while it gets wearing.

Anyway, this is a much better book about Brian than most - and full marks for relegating all the death-conspiracy theories to a chapter of their own and leaving you to decide what you want to believe (or even if you're that interested).

Great post Green Lady. I think your analysis rings of truth and I haven't even read the book! Your comment "(by the way, I think Keith in the early days would have seen the open tunings as something for slide players only - it was Ry who opened his eyes to other possibilities). is probably spot on and as a guitar player it makes a lot of sense. peace

An interesting point that's come out a couple times, was Brian's supposed fluidity on guitar. I'm assuming that's what was meant when Stu said he saw Brian playing like Django, and someone in the Trynka book says he heard him playing like Charlie Christian. Both of these could infer that Brian at one point played finger leads, unless they're just referring to rhythmic playing. Playing leads on slide guitar is a talent on its own, or all of them would play like Duane Allman, or Jeremy Spencer. Obviously Keith, with all his talent, could never duplicate, or top, what Brian expressed through his slide playing.

But Brian, in the end, that I know enough, only came up with one memorable lead riff, 'The Last Time', that wasn't played on slide. He almost seemed incapable of remaining interested in doing something again, like coming up with more riffs, once he'd achieved it once. Maybe that was his jazz soul. The book states that Brian even tried to get back up to speed on guitar, even taking lessons, though everything else was rapidly falling apart around him, and his Mandrax use seemed to blunt those musical efforts.

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Green Lady
I've been meaning to write about this book for some time. Paul Trynka has really done his homework, and all the material about Brian's early days is fascinating: it shows that the person the other members of the band met in Ealing was already a much more experienced musician, a rebel already determined to create his own band and with the drive and commitment to make it a success. Brian's contribution was huge - which is why I am uncomfortable with Mr. Trynka's determination to make it even huger, and to persuade us that everything distinctive about the band, right down to Keith's open tunings, has essentially been stolen from Brian by those other evil Stones (and ALO), and that the Stones after/without Brian have nothing original to give. He undermines his case by overstating it. Everybody learned a lot from Brian, but the argument about Ry Cooder becomes relevant here - at what point does learning become stealing? (by the way, I think Keith in the early days would have seen the open tunings as something for slide players only - it was Ry who opened his eyes to other possibilities).

He does not try to pretend that Brian wasn't a difficult character to live and work with, or that he wasn't a selfish and irresponsible (though charming) genius - and he gives us plenty of reasons why Brian may have turned out that way, given the childhood that he had. So: a genius AND an @#$%&, and, as 24FPS says, the shooting star that ignited the band. They owe him an enormous amount - but Paul Trynka wants to insist that they owe him everything, and after a while it gets wearing.

Anyway, this is a much better book about Brian than most - and full marks for relegating all the death-conspiracy theories to a chapter of their own and leaving you to decide what you want to believe (or even if you're that interested).

Nice post GreenLady. I wasn't going to bother with the book but after your review I think I will.
Does it infer anywhere that nowadays Brian would probably been diagnosed with Anti-social Personality Disorder? Or more specifically a sociopath? Which I believe he well may have been. Just curious is all.

Kyle
I think your "diagnosis" may be a fair assumption.
I have worked in the field of community mental health these last dozen years or so, and beieve me precise categories of illness are frequently hard to pin down. Brian's personality type in particular is hard to define clearly.
I recall reading an excellent biography of Charlie Parker years ago. Despite frequent spells in hospitals/care centres no one could agree....so schizophrenia perhaps (but not as deep rooted as affected Syd Barrett and Peter Green, for example)....psychopathic (ie extreme personality disorder)tendancies also were evident.
Brian was certainly a potential suicide as evidenced at his trials, according to his defence team. I have the impression that in terms of therapy and psychiatric support these did not continue following on from his two busts. The conditions attached to his 'sentences" may not have asked for this. He possibly wasnt the sort of guy who would seek it out, unlike John Lennon and his primal scream therapy, the year after Brians death.
Much has been made of Brians childhood, but in deference to his parents, their generation were often more aloof and apart from their children, and it has to be said they offered in some respects more stability than Lennon, Ringo and many others, who for different reasons had difficult childhoods.
As Mick has said on occasions Brian was really not cut out for fame and all that goes with it, he burned brightly for a very short period (like Spector, ALO and many others) and thought, wrongly of course, that drink and drugs would get him through.
Fatal.