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OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 5, 2014 13:40

Looks like Ginger is lining up some US tour dates for June, including one in my home town. I saw him in 1983 with a blues trio and he was incredible. I'd really like to see him again, but recent youtube clips don't look too promising. Any thoughts?

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 5, 2014 13:42




Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: Rollin92 ()
Date: March 5, 2014 14:04

I saw him in Exeter last year, all round an enjoyable gig. He can't drum like he used to but there were some glimpses of the Ginger Baker of old. This may well be your last chance to see him.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 5, 2014 14:26

Enjoyable, yes, but his skills have deteriorated the the point where that could almost be anybody playing the drums. The fact that it just happens to be Ginger is the only compelling thing about it. Thirty years ago his playing was thunderous and he was still doing some Cream material, too. I don't know. I'll have to think on it.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-05 14:27 by tatters.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: March 5, 2014 14:35

He has degenerative osteoarthritis of the spine, which is why most of the time he has to be lounging back as in that clip above. Smoking helps him to relieve the pain somewhat (note the ashtray full of butts on the arm of the chair also), but has led to a condition of COPD. Plus he will be 75 years old this summer. The only reason he plays drums at this point let alone tours is because he needs the money. I would say go only if you are interested in the type of jazz music his band is playing. But if you are expecting to see a legend who can still show you chops from his Cream days, I would say you would be disappointed. He toned things down for the Cream reunion of 10 years ago, but still played well--but if Cream were to reform now I doubt he would even be able to play at that level. I enjoyed him in the movie Beware Mr Baker--but all he had to do for that was sit in a lounge chair telling stories while chain smoking. As a drummer, he is clearly in no condition to live up to a Cream fan's expectations.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 5, 2014 14:41

Yeah, I know what to expect and what not to expect, but most people going to this show won't (the club where he's playing has been stoking the fire lately by regularly booking a Cream tribute band), and I'm not sure the idea of sitting in a packed club full of drunks who have come for the real thing and spend the whole night yelling "TOAD!" really appeals to me. Seems like a sad way to say goodbye ....



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-05 16:37 by tatters.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: March 7, 2014 03:33

Well,Ginger is doing Ginger style same way these days Charlie is doing the Charlie . .

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 7, 2014 05:21

Ginger For Sale

[www.pledgemusic.com]

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: BlackHat ()
Date: March 7, 2014 14:53

Saw him in St Albans, England last year. Tickets were only about £17 each. He can't drum to to the same level as he did with Cream but worth going to see him close up. Played with Pee Wee Ellis who has a fairly impressive CV.Go with expectations of a low key evening and you won't be disappointed.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 7, 2014 15:01

I just bought my tickets, more in the spirit of it being a fundraiser to help the poor sod out than with any expectations of being blown away by anything he's going to be doing onstage. I treasure the memory of having seem him in a tiny club with a power trio 30 years ago. It was on a Friday night, Dec. 9, 1983, at a little club on Long Island called My Father's Place. I went back on Saturday and saw Buddy Rich. Man, that was a helluva weekend.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: BlackHat ()
Date: March 7, 2014 15:15

Quote
tatters
I just bought my tickets, more in the spirit of it being a fundraiser to help the poor sod out than with any expectations of being blown away by anything he's going to be doing onstage. I treasure the memory of having seem him in a tiny club with a power trio 30 years ago. It was on a Friday night, Dec. 9, 1983, at a little club on Long Island called My Father's Place. I went back on Saturday and saw Buddy Rich. Man, that was a helluva weekend.

I saw him at Brixton Academy with BBM in June 94. He was on form that night. His show last year gave me a chance to see him up close.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: March 7, 2014 16:03

Quote
tatters
I just bought my tickets, more in the spirit of it being a fundraiser to help the poor sod out than with any expectations of being blown away by anything he's going to be doing onstage. I treasure the memory of having seem him in a tiny club with a power trio 30 years ago. It was on a Friday night, Dec. 9, 1983, at a little club on Long Island called My Father's Place. I went back on Saturday and saw Buddy Rich. Man, that was a helluva weekend.

Yeah, thats like I sometimes do things as well.
Reg. Buddy Rich - in my time in music biz in the 70's I often went on stage behind/near the drummers. Never forget watching Buddy. It wasn't my kind of music in those days but wow - could that man work the sticks and heads.As a drummer I was more than frustrated . .

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: TheBadRabbit ()
Date: March 7, 2014 18:00

Saw Ginger Baker with Masters of Reality at a little club in Milwaukee in '92 (?) '93(?). Got there early and found a table right in front--not 20 feet from the man himself. Aside from 'Sunrise on the Sufferbus' (what a great title!) I didn't know MOR from Adam, but what a great show. And they didn't make a big deal about Ginger at all--he was just the drummer. He took an extended solo towards the end of the set, but that was about it. I don't remember anyone yelling for Cream songs. Ginger had a roadie crouching just behind him all night. His job apppeared to be lighting cigarettes and passing them to Ginger.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 8, 2014 00:53

I wish I could find a clip of the band I saw him with in '83, but there's nothing on youtube from this period at all. He was playing with two Italian guys (I mean real Italians, not Italian-Americans), a guitar player and a bass player, and they were phenomenal. Mostly blues, but when they did "White Room" and "Sunshine Of Your Love" it was almost like seeing Cream perform in a club. An unforgettable and, unfortunately, unrepeatable experience.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-08 01:08 by tatters.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: mr_c_ox ()
Date: March 8, 2014 01:03

I went to see him with his jazz confusion last year in Kingston, he is still a virtuoso drummer. Wasn't any better or worse than when I saw him a few years previously. The only disappointment was that he didn't play anything from his back catalogue. He is doing a show for his 75th birthday in a couple of months where it's advertised that he is playing cream, mor material etc.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 8, 2014 01:14

Quote
mr_c_ox
He is doing a show for his 75th birthday in a couple of months where it's advertised that he is playing cream, mor material etc.

Here's all the info. Sounds great. Wish I could go.

[www.gingerbaker.com]

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: March 8, 2014 05:22

10/10/13

Concert Review: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion at Iridium, NYC

The volatile drummer's still got it at 74

By Jeff Tamarkin

Some came to hear “Toad,” or at least “Sunshine of Your Love,” but there would be nothing remotely resembling Cream tonight. Others, having recently seen Beware of Mr. Baker, the 2012 documentary profiling the irascible 74-year-old British drummer, undoubtedly hoped he would smack someone in the nose with his cane, as he does to the director in one of the defining moments of the film. But the closest he came to that was grimacing repeatedly when the soundman neglected to turn the volume up on his hi-hat mic to his satisfaction. What Ginger Baker came to do tonight—and will continue to do here through Sunday, and on the other dates of his short American tour—was to play jazz.

That in itself should not have surprised anyone. Jazz was Baker’s first love—he played the music in the early ’60s before he detoured into rock, blues and, later, world music, and he’s never seen himself as anything other than a jazz drummer. The few years he spent with Eric Clapton and Jack Bruce in the groundbreaking Cream, followed by Blind Faith, Ginger Baker’s Air Force and other rock-oriented outfits, gave him his fame as one of the all-time power drummers, but he’s long expressed his disdain for most rock and has downplayed his own influence on the genre, dismissing even the most celebrated rock drummers as inferior to his own jazz heroes.

So when he turned up on opening night at Iridium with a quartet—Ginger Baker’s Jazz Confusion—featuring tenor saxophonist Pee Wee Ellis (a renowned alumnus of James Brown’s troupe and Van Morrison’s bands), bassist Alec Dankworth (the son of British vocalist Cleo Laine and saxophonist/clarinetist John Dankworth) and the Ghanaian percussionist Abbas Dodoo (Baker introduced the imposing man as “my bodyguard”), it was clear that Baker meant business. And get down to business was what they did, immediately launching into a slowly but deliberately unfolding reading of Wayne Shorter’s “Footprints.” Although he still performs on a kit sporting double bass drums, Baker’s touch is lighter now, more nuanced. As he’s always done, he spent much time on his toms but also on his small crash cymbals and hi-hat. The muscular, pyrotechnic displays of his Cream days have given way to polyrhythmic duets with his African cohort, and plenty of funky swinging. And for that Baker couldn’t have chosen two more sympathetic collaborators than Ellis and Dankworth, both of whom were always in the pocket here, providing all of the melody and giving Baker and Dodoo plenty to feed off.

Following the Shorter piece, Baker noted that “I’m getting old” and that, despite the desires of the venue’s management, he would break the first set into two parts, taking a break when he felt he needed one. But there were no signs of weakness at all, no flagging in his playing. In Ellis’ “Twelve and More Blues,” Baker and Dodoo engaged in a call-and-response with the saxophonist’s lead lines and Dankworth’s double bass, veering into serious post-bop territory at times. Baker at first was tentative, toodling on snare as he waited for the volume on his hi-hat to be turned up, then he tore loose, settling into a deep, intricate groove with Dodoo that was maintained into the next number, which Baker described in advance as being inspired by the Atlas Mountains of Algeria. With Ellis approximating a Coltranesque Eastern motif and Dankworth, now on electric, providing a root and counterpointing the melody, the quartet locked into some of its most thrilling music of the evening.

“Cyril Davies,” a midtempo tribute to the pioneering British bluesman, brought out Ellis’ soul side, and “Ginger Spice,” written by trumpeter Ron Miles, who recorded the tune with Baker on the drummer’s 1999 album Coward of the County, found Baker doubling the time while Dankworth locked into a repetitive bassline. As Ellis squealed giddily in his upper register, Baker and Dodoo took the cue and accelerated the pace, syncing tightly and giving the bassist enough space to take one of his most impressively inventive solos of the night.

Following the short break previously announced, the group returned with Ellis’ “Ding Dong Dang,” a swinging blues that featured several tradeoffs between the saxist and the two drummers (one of which found Ellis quoting what sounded vaguely like the Fleetwood Mac/Santana classic “Black Magic Woman” for a bar or two). “Aiko Biaye,” which Baker introed as an “old Lagos folk song,” highlighted the Afro-centric nature of the quartet’s rhythmic leanings. Baker, minus the fury of his younger days and more interested in subtleties, was clearly at home in this world—he briefly joined Fela Kuti’s Nigerian outfit Afrika 70 in the early ’70s and spent much time living and working in South Africa. Here, he was at his happiest burrowing deeper and deeper into twisted cross-rhythms with Dodoo, an exciting player who augmented his congas with various cymbals and other percussive tools, serving as a foil for the now more-reserved Baker with showmanship and flair.

For their encore, Jazz Confusion performed “Why?,” which required the audience to shout the titular word when prompted by breaks in the 1-2-3/1-2-3/1-2-3 beat. That tune was the closest Ginger Baker came to producing a smile this night, but just the fact that he was here, alive and still quite capable on his instrument, was enough of a reason for this mostly-over-50 crowd to go home happy.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: May 6, 2014 15:45

U.S. Tour begins June 14. New album out June 24.

[www.gingerbaker.com]

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: May 6, 2014 15:48

Ginger Baker review – cantankerous ex-Cream drummer powers on
Islington Academy, London


The frenzied intensity that made him 'the world's greatest drummer' is gone, but he still plays with flair and authority



Mark Beaumont
The Guardian, Monday 5 May 2014 08.31 EDT



"Everybody's on at me to play Toad," wheezes Ginger Baker, fielding yet another catcall for the maniacal five-minute drum solo from Cream's 1966 debut album that left every kit cowed and quaking. "But it's not on. I'm 75 and I'm a @#$%& cripple." It's the closest this one-off launch gig for Baker's crowdfunded anthology, A Drummer's Tale, gets to unleashing his notoriously cantankerous nature.

The 2012 documentary Beware of Mr Baker celebrated his spectacular – and spectacularly influential – skins skills, while indulging a tongue as barbed as a prison perimeter and rolling out rafts of ex-bandmates attesting to antisocial behaviour worthy of a minor-league despot. Tonight, however, the pleasure of performance, and his chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, mellow him to a breathless but thankful huff.

Baker's too frail to reach the levels of frenzied intensity that gained him the reputation of greatest drummer ever. But, accompanied by bass and saxophone and flanked by mountainous sidekick Abass Dodoo on a comically toytown percussion set, he presides over the shifting jazz signatures of Wayne Shorter's Footprints with flair, authority and a stoic grimace.

Tonight, his focus is on jazz vehicles for intricate, impressive drum duets with Dodoo, and on Afrobeat numbers stretching back to his work with Fela Kuti in the 70s. But when he's joined by vocalist Lynne Jackaman from Saint Jude for Cream's Sunshine of Your Love there's real magic in hearing him pound out the marching diplodocus beats that saw him credited with having helped found hard rock, an honour he detests.

"I'm knackered," Baker says as he cuts the set short an hour in. "This may be a posthumous rendition of my new song Why?" The wonder is that he never really seemed to struggle, and still he's drawn out once more, battling through a virtuoso solo beyond the call on Sonny Rollins' carnival ska ditty St Thomas. Clearly, at a fragile 75, he'll lick anything but Toad. Hi-hats off.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: May 6, 2014 15:52

Ginger Baker @ O2 Academy Islington (London) 3rd May 2014. A Drummer’s Tale (also the title of his forthcoming CD) was a one-off show in honour of Ginger’s 75th birthday and part of a pledge campaign with a memorabilia exhibition prior to the concert. When Ginger took to the stage one fan shouted happy birthday and Ginger snapped: „It’s not my birthday!“ (he’ll turn 75 on 19th August). I easily made the front row with my friend Greg Pursall thanks to our VIP bracelets but a lot of photographers blocked our view. „Don’t worry we’ll leave after 3 songs!“ promised one of the guys and minutes later showed us a picture of the set list which had about 7 songs on it! What a cheek! It was indeed a brief set of one hour but the legendary drummer and his band were in fine fettle and we heard some great duets between Ginger and percussionist Abass Dodoo. A breathless Ginger spoke to us between songs and was brutally honest. He complained that everyone wants him to play Toad but he would no longer be able to do so - „I’m a @#$%& cripple...“ Instead we got a Fela Kuti tune and a new song called Why. It was a great pleasure that Marcus Bonfanti (Ten Years After’s new guitarist, he also guested on Why) and singer Lynne Jackaman (Saint Jude) joined for Can't Find My Way Home and Sunshine Of Your Love. After 7 songs Ginger said that he’s almost 75 and knackered but then returned for an encore (Sonny Rollins' St. Thomas). Beware of Mr. Baker, he’s still a hell of a drummer and there was a lot of love and respect for him last Saturday.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: May 7, 2014 03:35




Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: May 7, 2014 07:12

Quote
tatters


I remember watching that Cream DVD of their reunion and feeling like a 45 had been slowed down to 33 and a 3rd. I'm beginning to think we've made most of these guys stay at the party too long just because we love them too much. It especially hurts the high intensity bands like Zeppelin and the Stones.

That Ginger Baker documentary is fantastic. You walk away not feeling particularly sympathetic towards him. But you have to respect just the powerful force of the man.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: rbk ()
Date: May 7, 2014 16:43

Damn, I can't figure out how to post pics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-07 16:44 by rbk.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: May 7, 2014 17:37

Yeah after watching Beware Mr. Baker, I just got a picture of a very bitter mean person with a lot of negative energy. I didn't feel much sympathy for him, especially how he sold his family for an addiction, and seemed angry about everything. He's lucky he had the life of a rock star, otherwise he would have been in prison.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: RoughJusticeOnYa ()
Date: May 12, 2014 14:17

...Where's that (quite) long thread gone from a couple of months (I'd say: at least half a year?) about Ginger 'vs' the Stones, c.q. his constant dissing of everyone in & everything about the band, except for Charlie?


[*DISCLAIMER* - that's just my way of putting this, cutting a long story short. I have no need nor interest in re-opening that discussion; feel free to do so - but I just wanna know whee that thread is. So I hope somebody can help me out!
And yes, I did a "search", looking for "Ginger Baker", but all I found was this thread & the recent 'Chuck Berry'-one for some reason. Thanx in advance]

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: 1cdog ()
Date: May 12, 2014 18:53

Quote
24FPS
Quote
tatters


I remember watching that Cream DVD of their reunion and feeling like a 45 had been slowed down to 33 and a 3rd. I'm beginning to think we've made most of these guys stay at the party too long just because we love them too much. It especially hurts the high intensity bands like Zeppelin and the Stones.

That Ginger Baker documentary is fantastic. You walk away not feeling particularly sympathetic towards him. But you have to respect just the powerful force of the man.

I attended the Cream shows at the RAH and a few months later at MSG. I would agree with the comment of feeling some parts of the shows were slowed down, at least to my ears. But on the other hand some songs were great. The RAH shows were head and shoulders better than MSG in my opinion. I know one of the nights at MSG, must have been opening night, was marred by Ginger starting the wrong song in the set list on several occasions only to have Eric and Jack stop and get him on the right song. That same night it appeared that Ginger and Jack openly feuded onstage (remarkable after so many years).

These days I would only go see Ginger if he was surrounded by excellent musicians and I didn't have to travel to go to the show.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: Rollin92 ()
Date: May 12, 2014 21:16

Quote
1cdog
Quote
24FPS
Quote
tatters


I remember watching that Cream DVD of their reunion and feeling like a 45 had been slowed down to 33 and a 3rd. I'm beginning to think we've made most of these guys stay at the party too long just because we love them too much. It especially hurts the high intensity bands like Zeppelin and the Stones.

That Ginger Baker documentary is fantastic. You walk away not feeling particularly sympathetic towards him. But you have to respect just the powerful force of the man.

I attended the Cream shows at the RAH and a few months later at MSG. I would agree with the comment of feeling some parts of the shows were slowed down, at least to my ears. But on the other hand some songs were great. The RAH shows were head and shoulders better than MSG in my opinion. I know one of the nights at MSG, must have been opening night, was marred by Ginger starting the wrong song in the set list on several occasions only to have Eric and Jack stop and get him on the right song. That same night it appeared that Ginger and Jack openly feuded onstage (remarkable after so many years).

These days I would only go see Ginger if he was surrounded by excellent musicians and I didn't have to travel to go to the show.

3:29 on that video, classic Baker drumming

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tomcasagranda ()
Date: May 12, 2014 21:22

I don't know about ginger, but Jack Bruce's solo album, Silver Rails, is pretty spectacular.

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: RoughJusticeOnYa ()
Date: May 14, 2014 14:00

Quote
RoughJusticeOnYa
...Where's that (quite) long thread gone from a couple of months (I'd say: at least half a year?) about Ginger 'vs' the Stones, c.q. his constant dissing of everyone in & everything about the band, except for Charlie?


[*DISCLAIMER* - that's just my way of putting this, cutting a long story short. I have no need nor interest in re-opening that discussion; feel free to do so - but I just wanna know whee that thread is. So I hope somebody can help me out!
And yes, I did a "search", looking for "Ginger Baker", but all I found was this thread & the recent 'Chuck Berry'-one for some reason. Thanx in advance]

(bump) ...Nobody?

Re: OT: Ginger Baker's Jazz Confusion - Anyone Seen Them? Worth It To Go?
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: May 14, 2014 14:37


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