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DoomandGloom

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Spud

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DoomandGloom
Instruments made in China are made with unfair labor practices while ignoring environmental standards. As an American, I purchase and play only domestic products whenever possible. While most of you may not be so sentimental regarding US manufactures I urge everyone to think about the consequence of our actions. Most Squires I've played or owned are substandard to their US or Japan counterparts. Better to own one great guitar than a dozen crappy ones. Look at The Beatles, their records were made with just a handful of instruments. Paul still uses them till this day.... by right, buy once, make it yours. In the end the music pays the biggest price when everyone is playing garbage.

Think about it a bit longer Doom.

If it weren't for Asian production of guitars, Fender for example wouldn't be the healthy company it is today and wouldn't be making such good guitars in its own US factories.

I have a great respect for Fender. When makers such as Tokai started producing copies that were better than a lot of Fender's then currently indifferent product, they embraced the challenge and tackled it with the "...if you can't beat them, join them" approach.

Asian Squiers and Mexican Fenders enable players without deep pockets to own a very decent Strat or Tele that they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford.
They're buying a Fender product and Fender USA are benefiting from it.

Doesn't make it right, doesn't make using China child labor the only solution.. That's like saying slavery was ok in The South because plantations could not survive. Sometimes doing the right thing is costly, painful and in the short term detrimental to what we love. The inability to change, to grow, to evolve for artists and their tools is evident by the staleness of rock and roll and other art as well. The guitar you buy was once alive, it's mojo knows if the person making it is being taken advantage of, unhappy et et. This pain transfers in a negative way to the music and musician, The guitar problem began with the mindset created by manufacturers that guitarists need dozens of guitars, which is only true for bands who use many tunings and capos like The Stones, Sonic Youth, The Who... The fact that Japan made better Fenders 30 years ago does not hold true now, USA Fenders today are better than those 80's copies, better than Mex, and better than Squires. Those guys in the video are full of it but they had me for a minute, I checked out a "Vibes" or 2 and the frets were jagged and the pick ups were blah. So buy a Squire, fill it with aftermarket parts and it's resale value will not increase one penny. Guitar guys know you can never reclaim the money spent on mods, in fact no matter what the mod it generally decreases the value.

I understand your passionate position on this Doom...and it's shared by many folks.
I'm not enough enough of a philosopher or historian to argue the ethical sides of this argument but the economics will always win out in the real world.

Leo Fender and his associates set out in the late 40s/early 50s to build no nonsense working guitars that could be built in high numbers and sold to the masses of working musicians within a booming market.

Fender came up with innovative production techniques, using cost effective and readily available timbers and enabling the use of semi skilled relatively cheap labour to turn out the product. [Much of that labour Hispanic...but I don't want to get into that aspect of it ].

At that time Leo didn't have the option of setting up a factory in Japan or China to reduce labour & production costs still further....but I suspect he would have if he could.

With regard to the instruments themselves.

Of course a USA built guitar is better finished and fettled than a Squier or Mexican Standard.
But it's partly the existence of the cheaper ranges that allow the higher US production standards to be maintained.

They allow the quality of the higher range models not be be driven so much by cost constraints because you've got the lower cost models to maintain sales volumes, allow growth, R&D and continued refinement.

There are two sides to every debate. Sometimes both stand points are valid in one context or another and it's seldom just right or wrong.

[As a aside ...The best guitar I ever owned was a USA built Fender...but so was the worst. A 1977 Tele which was a complete & total plank !]

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CBII

The bodies and necks of a Fender guitar regardless where they are made used the same machinery, same wood, same ageing process and same assembly methods.

Sorry, but that's not true. It is indeed vague where body parts are made by Fender: American necks are shipped to Mexico to be lacquered and assembled to American bodies, making it a 'Made in the USA'guitar wich is not entirely true. But, specs differ between American and Mexican made bodies and necks. Mexican necks are made from lesser quality wood, use poly finishes and plastic nuts, and mostly steel frets.

I do agree though that when you replace the Mexican (or more correct: Chinese) pickups and pots and change them for good quality replacements you will end up with a guitar sounding as good or better than anything 'American' Fender. But, many people do not like the poly finish on a neck (which I happen to like, btw).

I personally prefer Japanese Fender instrument over anything else, as long as you replace the pickups and pots.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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CBII

The bodies and necks of a Fender guitar regardless where they are made used the same machinery, same wood, same ageing process and same assembly methods.

Sorry, but that's not true. It is indeed vague where body parts are made by Fender: American necks are shipped to Mexico to be lacquered and assembled to American bodies, making it a 'Made in the USA'guitar wich is not entirely true. But, specs differ between American and Mexican made bodies and necks. Mexican necks are made from lesser quality wood, use poly finishes and plastic nuts, and mostly steel frets.

I do agree though that when you replace the Mexican (or more correct: Chinese) pickups and pots and change them for good quality replacements you will end up with a guitar sounding as good or better than anything 'American' Fender. But, many people do not like the poly finish on a neck (which I happen to like, btw).

I personally prefer Japanese Fender instrument over anything else, as long as you replace the pickups and pots.

Mathijs

I Wouldn't quarrel with any of that. [and I quite like poly finishes too].

I'm quite a big fan of the Mexican Classic Series...which come with decent USA spec electronics and pickups straight from the box.
[There's still room for a few upgrades in the hardware and pickups department...but they're a luxury rather than necessity.


When the Classic Series came out [over ten years ago now] they reminded me very Much of the early 80s Tokais and JV Squiers, which I also rate very highly.

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crholmstrom
A buddy has a Fender Tele made in Mexico. Swears by it. He got tired of bringing his vintage guitars to gigs & worrying about them.

I have a 78 tele custom (with a Humbucker on the neck like Keith)
and a Mexican tele deluxe 72 reissue (with two humbuckers and large head stock)

Sound wise, the Mexican easily gives the original a run for its money.

I can't recommend these 70s Mexican reissues enough. They're an amazing guitar for the price.

They do the Thinline, Custom and Deluxe models.

I would go for a Custom because you get the best of both worlds with a twangy single coil at the bridge and and the Beefy Humbucker on the neck.
And it's Keith's choice of course too!

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Mathijs

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CBII

The bodies and necks of a Fender guitar regardless where they are made used the same machinery, same wood, same ageing process and same assembly methods.

Sorry, but that's not true. It is indeed vague where body parts are made by Fender: American necks are shipped to Mexico to be lacquered and assembled to American bodies, making it a 'Made in the USA'guitar wich is not entirely true. But, specs differ between American and Mexican made bodies and necks. Mexican necks are made from lesser quality wood, use poly finishes and plastic nuts, and mostly steel frets.

I do agree though that when you replace the Mexican (or more correct: Chinese) pickups and pots and change them for good quality replacements you will end up with a guitar sounding as good or better than anything 'American' Fender. But, many people do not like the poly finish on a neck (which I happen to like, btw).

I personally prefer Japanese Fender instrument over anything else, as long as you replace the pickups and pots.

Mathijs

Mathijs,

Maybe I've been lucky on my Mexican made stuff. One of my Stratocasters does have a ho-hum bland piece of wood for a neck but another on and a Telecaster has some incredible Flamed and Curled maple necks with great build quality and sustain great (which in itself is amazing). Could be a case of just getting lucky on my part. I stand corrected on the finishes being different.

CBII

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CBII
... Could be a case of just getting lucky on my part...

It's always a "case of getting lucky" when shopping for a guitar.

It's the chance mating of two toneful bits of wood which define the guitar's essential character.
Some just feel and ring right the second you pick them up.

You don't choose them...they choose you.

The more money you spend on a guitar, the higher the chance of coming across the real "killers".

That said, plenty of really toneful timber ends up by chance in the lower cost ranges. You just have to look a little longer and more carefully to find them.

So, if you don't have a lot to money to spend...just spend some time instead.

Try as many guitars as you can. Trust your gut and one of them will follow you home.

I think the above posts hit the nail on the head. Telecasters more than any other model vary a great deal. You need to get lucky, when I moved many guitars in the 70's and 80's I thought the ratio was 1 in 5, presently it's 1 in 20 with all the junk made and silly versions. You get a good one and you know it, suddenly licks you never played come forth, it's a real wonder. To master all the Tele gives and doesn't give you have to make them your regular axe, which is a great commitment considering their limitations. Right now I own a beat up 58 and a 61 slab both I've owned for 3 decades. I rarely gig with them and haven't even seen the 61 for almost a year, such is the bad side of owning vintage valuable guitars. I use a Highway One for gigs and no way is it the same as the oldies but it is solid and authentic. One of the best Tele's that ever got away was an ESP from the 80's so putting aside my snobbery I agree with the above to search out your Tele until you find a magic one that explodes with licks you didn't know you knew.

I don't know what it is with Teles...whether it's the string through bodies or the wide & tight coupling between the bridge/pickup assembly and the body or what...

..But, for better or worse, you seem to get more of the wood in the electrical output than you do with many other guitars.

Playing a good Tele through the right amp is almost like playing an acoustic guitar in some ways.
There's no perceived decoupling between your fingers and the sound coming from the speaker.
Hard to explain unless you've experienced it.