Bob Dylan is maybe the greatest song writer of all time but he has a horrible voice and maybe the worst performer I have ever seen live, absolute crap. Jagger at his absolute worst is 10 times the singer and performer Dylan is.

Dylan can write songs (very well) - but he can't sing at all..... his voice is completely false - so no comparison at all

OpenG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Clearly Mr
> Bob Dylan and how he delivered songs with emotions
> and how he painted his
> characters and imagery is the master.

Bollocks. Jagger rules all.

JumpingKentFlash

dylan throuhgout his studio and live career has sung with passion thats what
dylan is all about.for god's sake he laid out his marriage breakup with sara on
blood on the tracks .jagger was and is always in to himself and never lets anyone
get close in so how can one except really to sing with any real emotion over
a body of work.

peace

About the topics of singing with passion (like Dylan) and Jagger.

For anyone who might be interested of hearing singing straight from the heart with a passion, and happen to be in a middle of crisis of divorce or the like, and wants someone to share the feelings, I recommend one of the best album ever done: Blood On The Tracks by Bob Dylan - the great mid-70's come back album of (matured) Dylan created in the middle of his painful divorce from his wife. In that album Dylan goes song by song through all the emotional variations of the pain and sorrow and anger and other feelings included in such a seperation. It's one of those albums that every track has lyrical content, music and the voice of the singer so tightly connected to each other that you can separate any of them without destroying the effectiviness of the whole package.

So much for advertising the album, now Jagger. Namely, I just read from a recent Uncut that no one else but Mick Jagger was visiting Dylan when he was recording that album. And Dylan - as usually - did the whole album in more or less in a couple of days. Jagger was supposed to do some background vocals and percussion, but finally ended up just drinking Bob's champagne... Perhaps it was the best solution, but what a thrill it would have been hearing Mick's voice in that classical album...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-19 18:44 by Doxa.

Is this a wind up?

I am on a Stones fan site thingy?

You'd never guess half the time.

Who cares two hoots?

""Dylan can write songs (very well) - but he can't sing at all..... his voice is completely false - so no comparison at all"" (and most of the posts)...
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That's always the same subject, "dylan's voice".
Why to compare Jagger with Dylan ??!! I love Dylan's voice, I saw him in concert last years and I've never enjoyed so much a concert. I think Jagger is a great singer and so is Dylan, but in different ways.
Dylan hasn't a great singing technic but I don't care, I really like it.
People think Celine Dion is a great singer, so you know sometimes I really think that these people don't really know what music is .. I don't care all this bollocks ..

Doca & Open G:

Above I wrote:
"Love In Vain
I´m Going Down
(I) Don´t Know Why
Gimme Shelter"

...Did you ever listen to those songs?

Keefsters intensity is way ahead of Dylan´s on anything he made.
Jagger might often a capsuled-in feeling in his expression and
a, what has dealt with at this forum before, trained voice that
he nowadays use to have something left at the end of a world tour.

There are a lot more songs & countless of boots & live cuts that are superior to Dylan speaking of real emotion. To quote & agree with JKF, my friend, above: "Bollocks. Jagger rules all. "
You Greenwich Village-freaks /& -nerds: Please bugger off with this @#$%& talk of Dylan, supposedly better than the Stones.

Say it like it is, brother!

(......though I don't think they're saying that Dylan is 'better' in general terms).

And though Dylan may have been dealing with personal themes on Blood On The Tracks he hardly sings in in the first person. He deals with his emotion by making a song which he then sings almost objectively.

BUT

try.... I Believe In You

When He Returns

Precious Angel

Covenant Woman

Every Grain Of Sand

Hey how about my cheese!

dylan played brown sugar at virtually every show on the oct/nov leg of his 2002 USA tour and once in 2003 on the next leg in australia


[db.dylantree.com]

OOOOOOH! BS was Brown Sugar. I thought you meant Dylan was doing bullshit on that tour!LOL

If bob had stayed christian he could be pope now ,,, whereas Mick would still be Lucifer. I hear Dylan has a huge collection of gregorian chants.

Did you ever wake up to find, a day that broke up your mind, destroyed your notion of circular time?

yeah, sure - there's been plenty of Protestant fundamentalist popes, after all...

you're excelling yourself with these posts today!

In support of Open G's and certain other posts, I have to note Dylan's stirring rendition of "This Old Man". My one year old thinks it's a hoot.

Did Jagger ever render a tune for tots?

His duet with Michael Jackson..."State Of Shock"...was aimed at young boys.

I always though Jagger never got (or gets) the credit he deserves
as being a great vocalist. He's the best there is, along with
Elvis, Redding, Lennon, Mccartney, Dylan, plus a few others
I won't name. Those mentioned above are origional, and that's
what seperates the men from the boys.
As for emotion, I'll take I got the Blues or any live
version of Love in Vain over Robert Plant (like Since I've been Loving You).
I love Zeppelin, so no posts, please. That's not a dig at Plant.
AS for Dylan, I've always thought he's been a great singer,
no matter what incarnation or period he's been in.
Granted, he hasn't taken care of his voice over the years.
Like most Dylan stuff, his singing is something that's
an acquired taste, like his harp playing and his electric guitar playing.
If you don't think he's a good singer, listen to INfidels (plus
its ottakes Foot of Pride and the electric Blind Willie McTell).
I think he nevver sounded better.
We could always listen to Bono or Rob Thomas....

Dylan always considered himself a serious poet first, and a musician or a pop star as secondary...an afterthought. His words are timeless and will live forever. It seems he has understestimated himself though, because his musical output, lyrics included, are also timeless. Not only to his true fans, but amongst everybody for centuries to come. In the big picture of Rock and Roll music, Dylan will stand head and shoulders above and beyond the Stones and/or Beatles as far as the major impact and contributions he has made on the world.

I believe he will stand next to Elvis, Little Richard, Howlin' Wolf, B.B. King, and Willie Dixon in chapter one of the big book of ROCK. These chosen few will stand amongst several other pioneer greats (Buddy Holly...or Robert Johnson maybe?), and the rest will fall into chapter 2,3,4,...and so on and so on. Chapter 2 will be dedicated exclusively to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones in my predictions, and Zep, The Who, Hendrix will soon come in the following chapters. And then the Clash will be the epilogue. There's been no major improvements, or trailblazing-cutting edge rock and roll since then. (unless you count Nirvana/Pearl Jam...which I certainly don't).

When Neil Young sang "rock and roll will never die", I begin to wonder if rock isn't dead already. Certainly we can't rely on "The Boss" or U2 to carry the torch, they're all retreading ground that has already been explored...by Bob Dylan, the Beatles,the Stones, etc, etc.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-20 05:00 by Hairball.

Hmmmmm, know what you mean.

Never really considered Dylan R&R. Though it's a medium he adopted to great effect. I'd give him a book of his own. Just an indication of his stature. Principally a bard.

Stones were R&R (R& from the word GO. Definitely Chapter 1. (I'd give a relatively short paragraph to Elvis in that chapter. He was important but not that committed in the long run). Longer section to Berry. Little Richard, Jerry Lee yup.

Wolf, King, Dixon ..... Blues Book?

Infact when did Blues "give birth to" R&R?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-20 12:00 by Deidre.

Dylan couldn't sing Back Street Girl like Mick does.

ROCKMAN

Indeed. The examples are legion.

And.......another thing that Jagger's voice is capable of, which Dylan's is not, is................vibrato.

And even in his vocal chords' worse period ('76-'82) Jagger could not quite reach the accomplished level of croaking, wheezing and rasping perfected by Dylan in recent years.

Dylan moaning Lady Jane would be a riot.

ROCKMAN

I just love talking Bob Dylan in a Rolling Stones forum, so one more for the road...

I understand people don't like Dylan's voice, because it does make the difference with a little too BIG "the". It's not a safe main road voice at all. There wouldn't be a place for him in Beach Boys. The question of taste I quess.

BUT then again, the idea that it is not technically very skillful or easy listenable, well.. I can't see that avery big fault in a forum committed to the Rolling Stones. Namely, I don't see teh great technical superioty never been the most strongest advantage of the Stones. And mostly that is true of their most essential musical vehicle: the guitar of Keith Richards, that - as Dylan's voice - really makes THE difference. There are thousands (maybe tens of thousands) guitarists in the world that are technically superior to him - but are not able to make the simple tremendous effect he does for certain ears. The same is with Dylan's. It's nothing to do with technical ability. It's something more that some people has and some people do not. That genious and instinct way to use your instrument with your limited skills, and the unique ability to find trose so important little nuances that no else can. (And there are guitarist forums where mentioning the name Keith Richards just makes people laugh. All the guitarists here know that. I suppose most of the guitarists wonder what the hell is the fuzz about that Rolling Stones guitarist expect that he is "living legend" that have lived true rock and roll life and have made some good songs. But he ain't no Eddie Van Halen or Jimi Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan.).

I suppose even in this forum there are people that are technically superior guitarists than Keith Richards and better vocalists than Bob Dylan, but are not able to do the effect in their listeners as those two guys do.

Amen.

- Doxa

P.S. To tell you the truth, Mick Jagger is not very technically skillful singer either, although he has trained quite a lot in recent decades (mostly to keep his voice in condition, and to get through the long concerts). His voice just had that a wonderful unique sound that makes the difference and he used/uses it mighty fine... But he ain't no Freddie Mercury or Robert Plant (fortunately).




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2005-04-20 12:37 by Doxa.

It's a good thing Bob could write great lyrics because he has one shitty voicebox (although I like it). The emotion was in the words with emphasis on certain words.

Real emotion and Mick Jagger. That is a hard one because you never know who he is. For real emotion I would first check the live records, in all era's of the band, thru his different styles of singing onstage..fast singing, the growling era, really singing, etc.

On the records......some songs where he sure sounds convincing to me, with so many different emotions...anger,loss,love
Shine A Light
Let It Loose
JJF

I do think it's hard to pin him down as to when it's "real" and when it's not, if thats even the case.....maybe it's all real, or not.

Milo, NYC
You got the silver

KR aint Eddie Van Halen...thank the lawd for that!

Jagger himself, in a dutch tv-interview a couple of years ago, responding to a question on singing technique talked admiringly about Dylan, esp. mentioning his power of 'projection'. I guess that more or less covers what Doxa said.

Though technically limited Dylan still uses his voice with great subtility if you care to listen, esp. in the way he varies the diction of the words. What he does with the word heaven in Trying To Get To Heaven (on the boot of the Amsterdam show I attended last tour) just gives me the shivers each time I hear it.

----------------------------
"Music is the frozen tapioca in the ice chest of history."

"Shit!... No shit, awright!"

Listen to When He Returns off Slow Train - One of his greatest vocals.

If You See Her Say Hello is gut wrenching off Blood on the Tracks.

I think with Dylan you are far more effected by his lyrics and vocals then say
Mr jagger.If you really think about it Keith shows more emotion live when he
delivers the song then jagger.

Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Heineken Music Hall
November 11, 2003

Maggie's Farm (Bob on piano
Señor (Tales Of Yankee Power) (Bob on piano and harp)
Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum (Bob on piano)
Boots Of Spanish Leather (acoustic)
(Bob on piano and harp, Larry on cittern, Freddy on electric guitar, Tony on standup bass)
It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
(Bob on piano, Larry on cittern, Freddy on electric guitar, Tony on electric bass)
Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (acoustic) (Bob on piano and harp, Larry on cittern)
Cold Irons Bound (Bob on piano and harp)
Most Likely You Go Your Way (And I'll Go Mine) (Bob on piano and harp)
Tryin' To Get To Heaven (Bob on piano
Highway 61 Revisited (Bob on piano, Freddy on slide guitar)
Every Grain Of Sand (Bob on piano and harp, Larry on pedal steel)
Honest With Me (Bob on piano, Larry on slide guitar)
The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carrol (acoustic)
(Bob on piano, Freddy on electric guitar)
Summer Days (Bob on piano, Tony on standup bass)
(encore)

Down Along The Cove (Bob on piano)
Like A Rolling Stone (Bob on piano)
All Along The Watchtower (Bob on piano and harp)




Band Members
Bob Dylan - piano, harp
Larry Campbell - guitar, slide guitar, pedal steel, cittern
Freddy Koella - guitar, slide guitar
Tony Garnier - bass
George Recile - drums

[www.bobchronicles.com]

That's the one!

----------------------------
"Music is the frozen tapioca in the ice chest of history."

"Shit!... No shit, awright!"