I FOUND THIS ORIGINAL LP BOX SET FINALLY
AT A VERY SMALL JAPAN CD SHOP FOR A VERY REASONABLE $50 LAST STOCK
WITH STICKER AND NUMBER 219 OF 500 AND CERTIFICATION SHEET
I JUST WANT TO LET THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD THAT TRIED TO SELL ME THIS
SET FOR OVER $300 SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES, THEY KNOW WHO
THEY ARE SO I WONT MENTION NAMES, BUT IT IS A DISGRACE TO TRY AND RIP OFF
PEOPLE THIS WAY, AND I WONT MENTION THE SHOP EITHER OUT OF RESPECT TO BV



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-03-06 00:51 by melillo.

I sold my copy about 4 years ago for I think $350, and if I remember correctly that was equal to the amount I paid. Not one bootleg is WORTH $350, but as with anything in an open market: when something is scarce, the price gets higher. If you have been searching for say two, three years for a certain title, and someone is willing to offer his copy for $300, there's many people willing to pay that amount. I have been searching for Mannheim on Ice for at least 4 years in order to get my Outsider Bird collection complete. I finally bought it, including coffee stain, for something like $400. it was either that, or go to Japan myself and try to locate in a small Japanese shop.

Of course, these are all stories of the past, as these days boots are worth close to nothing. With the entrance of Bit Torrent site's and CDR's, no one is paying money for bootlegs anymore. $50 for Frankfurt tapes just shows that.

Mathijs

Mathijs, there is still a market for boots, believe me!

Good be, I am out of the boot market for a few years now. But if I see VGP titles getting offered for 20 euro and still not getting sold, that's what I call a bad boot market. Five years ago any VGP title was a minimum of $120 for a double CD set.

Mathijs

It's like you said in your story: Someone will pay the money if he needs that boot to make his 'collection complete'. So he's willing to pay $300 for a VGP that is worth maybe $25. But some boots are very rare and so ALWAYS worth lots of money. The Mannheim you mentioned was sold on e-bay for about 325 Euros three months ago... I even saw a VGP (Leeds, first pressing) sold there for about 800 Dollars! (an exception or maybe a fake sell......). I will never sell my collection but I was offered a very reasonable price for the whole thing not so very long ago...

Yeah right, 20$ for a bootleg? A single concert? Too much. Just got a few DVDs with about 20 GB bootlegs in MP3 - complete titles from all tours witch covers. It will take me ages to get all that stuff on audio CDs with printed covers. It even seems crazy to transfer it to the old format. Everybody trades stuff via MP3 - look at all those wonderful newsgroups with stones stuff you even don´t get on printed boots...

All those boot collectors be warned: Who would buy your stuff in a few years? Certainly not those young stones fans like me who get everything in masses nearly for free. Stuff is always worth what someone is willing to pay for it. All those 50 or 60 year old collectors can take their boot collection with them in their grave. Cause if they try to sell it, it will hurt - considering what they paid for it.

Take a look at ebay. I just bought a few Swinging Pig vinyl titles through ebay Germany. Those albums came out about 15 years ago, you all know that stuff. Of course you get it better on CD now, but I liked that label. About 10 years ago I could not afford those titles, now you get some of them for under 10 Euro. Ridiculous!

yes but the one i bought was mint condition still sealed for $50
the one for $350 was used , thats insane, and its not a knockoff
its an original stone crazy release, iam getting detroit rock city
next, same type of box brand new same price, its like a gold mine
also found buffalo 81 dandelion 2cd original at the same place
this one has been gone for years



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-03-06 15:56 by melillo.

Well I for one am glad
to see the prices crashing
and the boots beoming more accesible
for the everyday fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Be it cd's/ cdr's MP3's
what have you.......................

Long live the Stones!

HELLO MELILLO,
I HAVE NOT TRIED TO SELL THIS ITEM TO YOU OF COURSE, BUT REALLY I DONT THINK THAT YOU CAN GET THIS ITEM FOR 50 $. IS SO, IF YOU WANT TO WANT EASY MONEY, I BUY THIS ITEM TO YOU FOR 100 $. IN THIS WAY YOU GET THE DOUBLE FOR THIS ITEM.
AS MATHIJS I BOUGHT THIS BOX SET LONG TIME AGO AROUND 35O $ TOO.


MARIO

you know what mario , think what you want
i got the original lp size 2cd box set stone crazy number 219 of 500
for $50 ok , maybe this guy in japan didnt know the value, and no i dont want to sell it, why do you want it if you already have it

Where do you guys get VGFP for 20 bucks ???
Not in my neighborhood, I guess...

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

That's for second hand VGP's (and those are not the rare ones..........)

melillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you know what mario , think what you want
> i got the original lp size 2cd box set stone crazy
> number 219 of 500
> for $50 ok , maybe this guy in japan didnt know
> the value, and no i dont want to sell it, why do
> you want it if you already have it

Bootlegs are always tricky. First, Stone crazy always printed more than 500 copies. The first 500 or so are numbered, the rest aren't. Second, there's no way to see if a title is new. Every shop has a wrapping machine, so that doesn't say anything. At the moment people are paying $300 for a title, someone -especially the Japanese- will re-release a title, and you won't see the difference.

Back in the day that we released some boots ourself (a long time ago), we had a shrink wrapping machine and a rubber stamp. A single CD was 30 Dutch Guilders (say $15), a shrink warapped one 35, a numbered one 40, and if you want a number under 10, it was 45 guilders. I still have some of those numbered "1B" and number "1632 of 500 numbered copies".

Mathijs

and by the way, I hate mp3's, they sound terrible. I didn't believe the crashing of the bootleg market first when only CDR's were available and mp3's could be down loaded. But now with all the Bit Torrent sites, who's going to pay $40 for the new Boston 1969 tape when you can download it within an hour?

Mathijs

this just sounds like some people are upset i got it for $50
i dont know what i can do to make you believe me, and mathjs
please dont imply mine is a knockoff, cause it is not, it has all the stickers
and it did not have shrink wrap ok, and how do you know the one you bought for $350
is legit but yet mine is not,strange to me
mine also has the certificate, but iam sure mathjis can explain this away too
and i suppose the buffalo 81 2cd dandelion original is a fake too
they even gave me the picture discs , very clever i guess ive been had
oh well



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-03-07 13:38 by melillo.

>>>
this just sounds like some people are upset i got it for $50
i dont know what i can do to make you believe me, and mathjs
please dont imply mine is a knockoff, cause it is not, it has all the stickers
and it did not have shrink wrap ok, and how do you know the one you bought for $350
is legit but yet mine is not,strange to me
mine also has the certificate, but iam sure mathjis can explain this away too
and i suppose the buffalo 81 2cd dandelion original is a fake too
they even gave me the picture discs , very clever i guess ive been had
oh well
>>>

Don't be so @#$%& paranoid man. I don't give a @#$%& about whether you paid $50 or not, I sold all my boots years ago and bought me some nice guitars instead. If you paid $350 for it I would have thought you were insane because $2 would have bought you the same sloppy show in average audience quality on a CDR. But I don't judge, as I have literally spent thousands of dollars on these same boots myself.

The only way to tell whether you have a first or real pressing is by looking at the matrix number on the discs and checking it in Nico Zentgraff's Swartzbuch for example. Than I said: I wouldn't be surprised if some Japanese dealer smelled money and started reprinting this title, as I find it indeed a miraculous find to find a new copy ten years after they first were released, even in Japan. Stone Crazy also released the Rotterdam tapes in three versions and Detroit Rock City in at least two. But, to your knowledge, Japan has been known to offer surprising titles. I remember that when old Idle Mind and the later Idol Mind were long gone in Europe (and thus expensive) we could order directly from Japan, and they still had all the old titles like Baton Rouge 1975. Of course, you had to know how to order (internet wasn't as big as it is now) and you'd take the risk of all your CD's getting confiscated.

And about Buffalo 81: $50 is just about the right price. This title has been printed in quite large quantities, even in two versions: first a regular silver dics, than the picture discs. The lable is Dandelion, but it has nothing to do with the well known Dandelion lable which is the succesor of Rattlesnake and Swingin' Pig. Quite a nice show in good quality.

Mathijs

What are the original OBR CDs worth?

Depends which one. But 2 years ago Mannheim 73 and the 1977 Paris Outtakes titles went for over $300, if in pristine condition. I don't know what the current market value is.

Mathijs

Mannheim on Ice still goes for over $300..........

mathijis the second editions of these titles are
mini boxes of the original lp size
so it is easy to tell the difference ok
and dieter hoffmann has never mentioned a third repressing of these titles
if they were made he would have listed them, and btw the matrix numbers match
the blackbook version, thanks
as for what you said about buffalo 81
thats what makes it so collectable,that its an original dandelion release
and they are not easy to find anymore fyi
if they are just average sloppy recordings why did you spend so much to get it then,its a collectors item thats why, and i dont care how hard you find it to
believe, its true i can send a photo copy if that will make you feel better
matrix numbers are 93081101-93081215 on my cds hope this settles this nonsense



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2005-03-07 23:46 by melillo.

About 6 years ago I was lucky to buy my original Outsider Bird Mannheim on Ice 2cd for only $30 = €25! I knew it was hard to get and I was even told it was a cheap offer. But over $300 nowadays...no...I wouldn't pay that for a show I didn't even see!

Let it rock!

yes i just got honey looloo
for under $40 and yes its an original obr release

melillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mathijis the second editions of these titles are
> mini boxes of the original lp size
> so it is easy to tell the difference ok
> and dieter hoffmann has never mentioned a third
> repressing of these titles
> if they were made he would have listed them, and
> btw the matrix numbers match
> the blackbook version, thanks

You don't get my drift. Your rant was that somebody asked $350 for it, now you found it in Japan for $50. I said two things: don't get mad if someone asked you $350, as this is an extremely rare title and very hard to find, and of course anyone can have some luck (a friend of mine found an old vinyl of the first album with the second version of Tell Me for 5 euro in a second hand bin, and that one is worth literally 1000's of dollars). I also said yhat I would be carefull as these rare and expensive titles tend to have re-releases in order to cash in. For example, Back to the Graveyard by OBR is said to have 300 numbered copies, while I know for a fact that at least a thousand were printed. Congratulations with a nice find, but don't rant on the going price in Europe and the US for these titles.


> as for what you said about buffalo 81
> thats what makes it so collectable,that its an
> original dandelion release
> and they are not easy to find anymore fyi
> if they are just average sloppy recordings why did
> you spend so much to get it then,its a collectors
> item thats why, and i dont care how hard you find
> it to
> believe, its true i can send a photo copy if that
> will make you feel better
> matrix numbers are 93081101-93081215 on my cds
> hope this settles this nonsense
>

"an original Dandelion" release means nothing, as this is the only "Japanese" Dandelion release there ever was, and in fact it is a Dutch release sent to japan in a trade for VGP's. This title is -at least here in Holland- not rare. within one phone call I can get you several. Still, it is a nice find for $50 if you collect silver CD's as it is a nice and good sounding show.

Honululu by OBR is indeed not worth more than $40, as this title has been released more complete and in better sound quality by several lables, the best being the VGP "In Exotic Honululu", VGP number 044 if I remember correctly. but, if you want to have OBR complete you need it!

Mathijs

ps again, I am not judging you by any means, I know what it is to want every shows available on silver CD -I also paid $100 for Antwerp 1973, and you certainly don't enjoy listening to that one!

As far as "collectable" prices go,
the boots are only worth whatever
folks are willing to pay. If it
brings you pleasure, than I suppose
it's worth it. If not, well then
so it goes....................................

I WAS ONLY RANTING WHEN YOU STARTED CASTING DOUBT ABOUT MY FIND
THATS ALL, ITS NOT ABOUT THE SOUND OF HONEY LOO LOO
ITS THE RARITY OF IT IS WHAT I MEAN, I ALSO HAVE THE VGP VERSION
LETS JUST LEAVE IT ALONE NOW AND STOP THIS, IAM HAPPY WITH IT
AND YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOURS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-03-08 01:50 by melillo.

btw mathijs do you have any obr cds you would be willing to sell
let me know

No, I don't have any boots left for sale, I sold my entire collection. Only some titles I was involved in myself I have kept, but not even all.

Mathijs

A few years ago I bought the complete set of all OBR CDs (12 titles) in perfect condition for about 250 Euro from a collector who obviously needed money...

wow now thats a great deal