Elvis is one of the greatest icons in popmusic history. He was there when Rock 'n'Roll saw the daylight. He was an innovator for that time.
Through the years he lost more and more of his rock 'n'roll roots and became a Hollyood moviestar. Most of his movies where good for the Rasbarry awards. After his Hollywood period he made a fabulous comeback. For a small audience he played with his old buddies DJ Fontana and Scotty Moore a some sort of unplugged session in a leather suit. One of the highlights in his career IMO.
But tham he discovered Las Vegas. He changed his leather suit for a jumpsuit with pearls and gold and big collars. IMO was that the beginning of the end.
I really like his music but in the last deccade he became more and more a showman than a rock 'n'roll star. He completly lost his roots and sung gospel songs ons stage. And songs like Hurt and unchained melody. Like a opera singer.

He's timeless. 27 years after his death he's still one of the best selling artist. He even hit the charts these days with songs like Woodenheart and Are you lonesome tonight. The Elvis Presley institute is one big marketing tool. A milkcow. Every year they come with someting new. Now it's a limited edion singelbox on cd and vinyl.
I got six or seven Elvis cd's.
What do you think of Elvis? Is he really "The King of rock n'roll?

No

I love Elvis, he brought the black southern blues to light and mainstream for us all. Which if he or someone had not... I am not to sure we would be talking on a Stones website... or a Beatles one.. or a Zep one.. etc. They true hero's rock n roll range from Muddy Waters to Chuck Berry, to Howlin Wolf, Albert King, Buddy Guy, B.B. King and others... the rest are and still are only followers and students of the Masters listed above.. Including the STONES!!!!

>What do you think of Elvis? Is he really "The King of rock n'roll?

Unquestionably

With respect, your summation about the last few years of his career and him "forgetting his roots" are nonsense, however.

Plus, Elvis' musical roots (as anyone can tell you) WERE in gospel music, more than anything else. It was the first music he heard and the first music he sang.

Its a bit hard to have rock n roll "roots" when you pretty much had a huge part in it's invention, surely

agree point-by-point with Gazza. He's definitely the king and the roots were always there. Been collecting quite a bit o' Elvis of late....

Good Point Gazza... However.... Gospel music is the seed of Rock n roll/ Delta blues....... Same in the one! Elvis did nothing to invent anything.... he rode the backs just like the rest that followed.... He was noway an originator of anything nor is any Rock music from 1950- today... its all DELTA BLUES/GOSPEL based...Muddy Waters box set says it all! OLD Billie Holiday singin the blues.....thats true gospel/blues.

Elvis was just about the biggest PR stunt ever pulled of in the world, all categories
Never understood what he was all about. Did not create any important stuff what so ever, only copied black guys. Only thing that made him famous has that he moved when he performed and that he had a light skin color... but musically... naaah, very close to zero in importance

www.stonesvikings.com

"but musically... naaah, very close to zero in importance"

Huh? That's an incredibly ignorant statement. PR stunt? You gotta be kidding. Tell that to the Beatles, the Stones, Dylan (to name but 3 of thousands of artists) - they were all HIGHLY influenced MUSICALLY by Elvis....not by the PR hype. Elvis was a true original and ENORMOUS musical talent.

Have a different opinion. All these guys you mantioned, Beatles Stones Dylan, they actually CREATED new revolutionary type of music. What did Elvis create?? Well, he ... hmm.. was moving his hips... hmm maybe. He just covered other black artists.
Well, yes Stones Beatles Dylan did also cover other artist in the beginning but thet actually took the music further down the road and developed it. Elvis did not put in anything new.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-02-14 21:58 by Jan Richards.

dead wrong there. Elvis brought together the roots of country, blues, gospel and R&B and then gave it a voice and a look - the thing is called ROCK AND ROLL - and Elvis was the unchallenged king. You can't separate Elvis out of the equation and expect that nothing would have changed; everything would have....his influence was incalculable.

I agree with T&A and Gazza on this. With all due respect Jan your statements are remarkably uninformed.

Of course Elvis will be remembered as one of the greatest rock icons, but he was not a revolutionary musician - he plagiarized the afroamericans music, and became known as the king of rock.

I agree with Jan that Elvis WAS and IS a PR Stunt. Thanks to Colonel Parker. Everything what was related to Elvis was a succes.
But Gazza, tell me, why do you think it's nonsems when I say he lost his roots with R&B? The way he brought it was so smooth and so Las Vegas//
Most of his songs in the 70's is everything but Rock n roll. Of course his roots was in Gospel. And he made a few good gospel records.
But than I think by myself: Is he really the king of Rock 'n'roll? And why not Chuck Berry for instance

THE MOST OVERRATED ROCK STAR EVER!!!!!!!!

I just hate the "King of rock and roll" being attributed to Elvis, yes he was a good entertainer and had a decent voice but what did he ever create? How did he ever move music ahead? all it was Elvis doing "black music", which contributed to the legendary status he has, and never acknowleding his black influences. How can he be even considered the king? what about Chuck Berry,Little Richard, or Buddy Holly? As far as I am concerned Elvis was just a singer and entertainer not an artist, not an original and absolutly not a king!

Elvis is undoubtedly the King and symbolizes an era, if not the entire genre.

Jan, I believe you need to hit the books, or at least the record store. I recommend starting with some Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Bo Didley, Fats Domino, Buddy Holly, Bill Haley, Eddie Cochran and Ricky Nelson before you move even further back to the deeper roots of rock: gospel, Appalachian folk music, country/western, blues, and yes, even swing and jazz. Then come back to Elvis; its all there and then some.

Elvis may have not written much of his own material (remember the industry was entirely different back then), but he was a remarkable performer with an even more remarkable voice who had an inborn ability to interpret material. He crystalized, commercialized, and stretched the boundaries and definition of what at the time was evolving in to rock and roll.

Moreover, he was just a likeable guy, the epitome of the American Dream. Of course people love to joke about Elvis and food, his lack of home decorating savy (ever been to Graceland?!?), and the quality of some of his material, but rarely will you find someone so naiive to attack the man himself. He used to sit at his desk every month writing out checks to help people pay for their groceries, heating, or a few missed payments on their mortgage, acts that until recently were entirely private. On that note alone the man is King is my book!

No doubt the Stones, Beatles, Dylan, and Zeppelin were revolutionary too...no argument there.

Elvis was different, indeed. In may ways. He looked different, he had charisma.
but the thing is you can't place Elvis in one genre. He made black music popular by white people by bringing different cultures togeher. He sung black music like That's allright mama. But IMO it's to much to call hem the King.

And let us not forget, Elvis created one of the greatest rhythm sections ever assembled in rock (TCB band) and worked extensively with Scotty Moore and James Burton, two guitarists that greatly influenced and inspired Keith Richards.

Excuse me James but are you THE James Burton or just a James Burton?

bartman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Jan that Elvis WAS and IS a PR Stunt.
> Thanks to Colonel Parker.

balls. You can hype an artist so far before the public and record buying audience grow out of it and see through the bullshit. Thats why artists like The beatles, The Stones, Elvis etc - all artists who had a huge degree of marketing and PR stunts behind them early in their career and had a very shrewd manager - lasted and why acts like The Spice Girls fizzle out after a couple of years. You cant kid so many people for 50 years.

Everything what was
> related to Elvis was a succes.
> But Gazza, tell me, why do you think it's nonsems
> when I say he lost his roots with R&B?

I dont see that you MENTIONED "r&b" AS "his roots" in your original post

The way
> he brought it was so smooth and so Las Vegas//
> Most of his songs in the 70's is everything but
> Rock n roll. Of course his roots was in Gospel.
> And he made a few good gospel records.
> But than I think by myself: Is he really the king
> of Rock 'n'roll? And why not Chuck Berry for
> instance

because there was a lot more to Elvis' music than black R&B. Rock 'n'roll (as I see it and many others do) is a hybrid of different types of white and black music. I dont see as much of a blend of that style in Chuck Berry's music (not a slight on Chuck, who I think was great). Elvis' musical roots owed at least as much to country as they did to blues. Theres a lot more variety in hiw work and a lot more influences there than just black music. I've listened to enough of his material in the last decade of his life to know that there was still a great variety of styles there. As for the singing material "like an opera singer" - well, Elvis' favourite singer was Mario Lanza. His biggest hit single "its Now or Never" was a reworking of "O Sole Mio". he sang ballads at every point in his career - and as for the "sing gospel on stage" stuff...so what, he sang gospel on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1957. Lost touch with his roots? Hardly. He was a master of many styles of music and could basically sing anything and do all styles as well as anybody.

Its got very PC and fashionable to give it this "he ripped off black music" crap, yet if it wasnt for guys like him doing that sort of music, white America (and therefore the rest of the world) would still never have discovered that type of music. You guys dont seem to be too bothered to notice that he reinvented white music as well (or by the tone of your posts, is it ok to rip-off white artists and not black artists?) Such self-righteous bullshit to just label rock n roll as entirely a black music artform ripped off by white artists. "he just covered black artists " - what a load of uninformed nonsense.

Jan - if you seriously think Elvis Presley "put nothing new" into popular music then you need your head tested. Try the word "sex" for starters. And then read T&A and JamesBurton's posts above one more time and try and "get it".

Finally, for fans of the Rolling stones to criticise any white artist for plagiarising black music is ironic in the extreme.

He's the king - as I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread - due to his INCALCULABLE effect on music. Rock'n'roll would not have evolved at all like it did without him. You probably can't name one other single performer in the 50's that you can make that statement about - including Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Buddy Holly. That's what makes him THE KING. Honestly, I cannot believe how naive some folks can be - you don't have to like him - but to call him some mere Colonel's puppet or some PR stunt is unbelievable.

Ask Keith Richards how much Elvis influenced rockn'roll -

"Finally, for fans of the Rolling stones to criticise any white artist for plagiarising black music is ironic in the extreme. "

But there is a huge difference, the stones never hid the fact that they played black music, they celebrated it, they named the band after a song by a black artist,they toured with black artists they did all they could do to promote there influences, they were the band who got Howlin Wolf on tv, they were a huge help to BB King gaining a white audience (he stated this in his autobio) Even today almost every interview they give they pay homage to there hero's. In contrast Elvis never did that! he almost never gave credit to the black writers of his hit records, he ows his success to them but he never gave them their due. It sickens me that this man is so loved and respected, I just don't get it????

Elvis popularized these styles,
and the moment where they all came
together, hillbilly country and bluez
most notably, to bewcome rock and roll.
However, he was not the originator of these
styles, he was an entertainer, and as such
right up til the end and even in death,
pure Americana.

if the song was written by a black artist and he had the rights to it (often not the case, I understand - certainly not Elvis' fault) - then Presley was doing that artist a huge favor just by covering it. To suggest he didn't pay homage to black writers is false - I have many live recordings where he takes the time to do just that.

...'tis true, you don't get it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-02-15 01:39 by T&A.

Ket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Finally, for fans of the Rolling stones to
> criticise any white artist for plagiarising black
> music is ironic in the extreme. "
>
> But there is a huge difference, the stones never
> hid the fact that they played black music, they
> celebrated it, they named the band after a song by
> a black artist,they toured with black artists they
> did all they could do to promote there influences,
> they were the band who got Howlin Wolf on tv, they
> were a huge help to BB King gaining a white
> audience (he stated this in his autobio) Even
> today almost every interview they give they pay
> homage to there hero's. In contrast Elvis never
> did that! he almost never gave credit to the black
> writers of his hit records, he ows his success to
> them but he never gave them their due. It sickens
> me that this man is so loved and respected, I just
> don't get it????


utter horseshit. Check the songwriting credits. Plenty of black writers there. Chuck berry, Lowell Fulsom, Big mama thornton, Richard penniman etc. how many more examples do you need? Why are you so antsy about him just being influenced by black artists, yet not white artists like Hank Williams, Hank Snow, etc.?

I'm not suggesting the Stones didnt acknowledge their roots. Just emphasising the similarity in two white artists who were influenced by that type of music and who helped popularise it by bringing it to a white audience. Elvis' roots were much more diverse than the Stones - who for the first few years of their career were just a R&B act and were very zealous about emphasising that.

I think you would have had a hard job putting on a show in the deep south in the 50's to a white audience with Elvis as the main act and a host of black artists supporting. I suppose that's Elvis' fault as well.

bartman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Jan that Elvis WAS and IS a PR Stunt.
> Thanks to Colonel Parker.

Many artists, including the Stones, became famous through great marketing. Andrew Loog Oldham was the Colonel Parker for the Stones.

- Koen.

I thought that was great how the
Stones appeared with Howling Wolf
on Shindig on 5-20-65. Check out
the boot! So otherwise whitebread.
I bet they were really pushing the
limits in the eyes of many stateside
at the time!

the folks stateside didn't even know who the Wolf was!

Let's face it Rolling Stones fans : ELVIS IS/WAS THE KING OF ROCK 'N ROLL !!

Why argue, let's just agree on this point for a change.

For people to argue that he copied other black musicians is hypocritical...The Stones & many other bands did exactly the same thing...

Esky

I respect women who can suck golf balls through a garden hose....

It's not fair to judge Elvis on the race issue in
retrospect, he may even have been pretty progressive
within his own times singing black music and crossing
the racial barriers. However, he was an entertainer,
he did not invent rock and roll, he popularized it.
For my money I'd say Chuck Berry has more claim to
the throne for his hybird country blues licks,
slice o' life lyrics, songwriting talents
and wit. As much as I love Elvis in his
own camp way, he pales in comparison.

But of course there may well be an argument
made for other contemporaries who might have
equal or better claim to the throne of
King of Rock and Roll, but perhaps
somebody else would care to champion
them?!? Chuck Berry is my main man!!!!

Berry stole every lick he played from Johnnie Johnson! Berry cannot claim the throne on that basis alone....