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I stand by the 'need to' description, and would liken it to 1968, when they needed to reinvent themselves. They had come off the previous two years becoming increasingly pop and psychedelic and were losing their credibility.
Coming back with JJF and Beggar's was something they needed to do, and they delivered. Similarly, in 1978, with punk and disco in the critics and publics mind, they needed to reinvent themselves...having just come off of 3 weak (at the time, critically speaking) albums. They were yesterdays news.
They needed to come back and they did with a vengeance.
This is not a bad thing but a great thing....they forced themselves into new territory and it worked.
One can argue I think, that since then they have tried forcing a new course and have had less success ;Undercover (still brilliant), Dirty Work (disaster), Voodoo Lounge (reaching back, but paint by numbers).
Tattoo You though, doesn't sound forced...the songs are excellent, the production is excellent, and as already been opined, sounds timeless...as though it could have been released today. Some Girls sounds dated...it's a great album, but it's place is 1978-79.
For that reason, I'd say even Black and Blue sounds more current than Some Girls.
Ditto. Every word. SG was it in the summer of 1978. It touched a chord with a more massive audience, not just rock fans. It was more a popular cultural zeitgeist moment than TY.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-01 04:52 by stupidguy2.
I agree with Stones78. I does matter. Because of this, TY always felt pasted together....and that was a known fact upon its release. I love it, but it lacks that feel of this-is-what-the-deal-was-at-that-moment.
Nah. It's got more bone marrow than Some Girls has.
Bolded part absolutely correct.
Also a complete relief to long suffering stones fans...but I think the pressure was certainly on and they delivered.
The pressure was off for Tattoo You...but you still had a monster album, with better overall songs as the result. Stands the test of time far better, and the course/path the Stones should probably have stayed on in their later years.
agree with everything except the slag on Undercover...I love the sound of that album and the songs, and the attempt to chart new territory. Sometime during that recording the whole thing started to unravel and we get 6 years in the wilderness and a metamorphisis...Dirty Work, the solo albums, WWIII and finally the rebirth in 1989 of the Vegas Stones.
Tattoo You was a mid-career peak though, in a 'Big 4-part deux', framed by Some Girls and Undercover. Emotional Rescue is the weakest of the bunch, but still quite credible.
I'm told the Album Death Match has become involved in the same scandal as the FIFA world's cup and the rulings are no longer considered valid.
are you saying this should be decided on penalty kicks?
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
mgguy
()
Date: October 31, 2011 21:56
It might also be said that the 2 albums are quite like 2 sisters that share a similar beauty, but have very different personalities, though you know immediately who the parents are.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 31, 2011 23:19
Quote
DoxaQuote
treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
mgguy
Always felt that Some Girls continued the legacy, and Tatoo You explained it, if that makes sense.
Really nicely put! Some people can put the point in one sentence where I need 500 of them!
- Doxa
It is very nicely put...I think my opinion on it differs though. I saw it as "We need to reinvent ourselves vs. we are the stones, nothing else matters".
A good description as well, but with respect, I don't quite agree with the expression "need to" - that's sounds being forced, that the reinvention does not happen naturally (caused by own muse). By contrast, I hear the band actually being inspired and the change in sound happening naturally. Yeah, there is some artificiality in "Lies" - trying too hard to sound current - but that is an expection. By contrast, I see in albums like UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK the band trying to reinvent themselves but does not happen so naturally and convincingly as it does in SOME GIRLS.
- Doxa
I stand by the 'need to' description, and would liken it to 1968, when they needed to reinvent themselves. They had come off the previous two years becoming increasingly pop and psychedelic and were losing their credibility.
Coming back with JJF and Beggar's was something they needed to do, and they delivered. Similarly, in 1978, with punk and disco in the critics and publics mind, they needed to reinvent themselves...having just come off of 3 weak (at the time, critically speaking) albums. They were yesterdays news.
They needed to come back and they did with a vengeance.
This is not a bad thing but a great thing....they forced themselves into new territory and it worked.
One can argue I think, that since then they have tried forcing a new course and have had less success ;Undercover (still brilliant), Dirty Work (disaster), Voodoo Lounge (reaching back, but paint by numbers).
Tattoo You though, doesn't sound forced...the songs are excellent, the production is excellent, and as already been opined, sounds timeless...as though it could have been released today. Some Girls sounds dated...it's a great album, but it's place is 1978-79.
For that reason, I'd say even Black and Blue sounds more current than Some Girls.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
69boogie
()
Date: November 1, 2011 00:07
z
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
ab
()
Date: November 1, 2011 04:18
Start Me Up was available for inclusion on Some Girls. So imagine if you had an album consisting of:
Side 1
Start Me Up
When the Whip Comes Down
Imagination
Some Girls
Far Away Eyes
Side Two
Miss You
Respectable
Before They Make Me Run
Beast of Burden
Shattered
Drop Lies, put Start Me Up up front, move Far Away Eyes to the end of side 1, and move Miss You to the start of side 2. Yowsah! This would have given us a fifth to go along with The Big Four.
Side 1
Start Me Up
When the Whip Comes Down
Imagination
Some Girls
Far Away Eyes
Side Two
Miss You
Respectable
Before They Make Me Run
Beast of Burden
Shattered
Drop Lies, put Start Me Up up front, move Far Away Eyes to the end of side 1, and move Miss You to the start of side 2. Yowsah! This would have given us a fifth to go along with The Big Four.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Loudei
()
Date: November 1, 2011 04:21
i like Tattoo You better than Beggars Banquett
Quote
ab
Start Me Up was available for inclusion on Some Girls. So imagine if you had an album consisting of:
Side 1
Start Me Up
When the Whip Comes Down
Imagination
Some Girls
Far Away Eyes
Side Two
Miss You
Respectable
Before They Make Me Run
Beast of Burden
Shattered
Drop Lies, put Start Me Up up front, move Far Away Eyes to the end of side 1, and move Miss You to the start of side 2. Yowsah! This would have given us a fifth to go along with The Big Four.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: November 1, 2011 04:48
Quote
whitem8
Some Girls by leaps and bounds. Far more dangerous a record. More attitude, and less polished production. The band made a cohesive statement with all NEW material. Ron's finest moment with The Stones.
Tattoo You is ok. Too slick for me, and too many throwaway songs. And it collapses from the weight of the 80's production. Start Me Up...never thought it was a great song. Ok, but not the hard edged Stones I loved on Some Girls. Some Girls is more apocalyptic with punk New York and Curtis Mayfield funk overtones. And guitars. Glorious guitars up front in the mix. Their last masterpiece.
Ditto. Every word. SG was it in the summer of 1978. It touched a chord with a more massive audience, not just rock fans. It was more a popular cultural zeitgeist moment than TY.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-01 04:52 by stupidguy2.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: November 1, 2011 04:56
Quote
brianwalkerQuote
stones78
Not a fair comparison since Some Girls was an all-new album and
for Tattoo You they had the chance to revive outtakes as old as 72'.
Why does this matter at all when comparing albums? Oh yeah it doesn't.
Can we have a ban on anyone ever bringing this point up again, ever..
It annoys me everytime. It doesn't freaking make one bit of difference when the songs were written.
I agree with Stones78. I does matter. Because of this, TY always felt pasted together....and that was a known fact upon its release. I love it, but it lacks that feel of this-is-what-the-deal-was-at-that-moment.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
WilliamPatrickMaynard
()
Date: November 1, 2011 06:07
Do you like me as a friend? Check the box yes or no.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
DragonSky
()
Date: November 1, 2011 06:29
Quote
stupidguy2Quote
brianwalkerQuote
stones78
Not a fair comparison since Some Girls was an all-new album and
for Tattoo You they had the chance to revive outtakes as old as 72'.
Why does this matter at all when comparing albums? Oh yeah it doesn't.
Can we have a ban on anyone ever bringing this point up again, ever..
It annoys me everytime. It doesn't freaking make one bit of difference when the songs were written.
I agree with Stones78. I does matter. Because of this, TY always felt pasted together....and that was a known fact upon its release. I love it, but it lacks that feel of this-is-what-the-deal-was-at-that-moment.
Nah. It's got more bone marrow than Some Girls has.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Edward Twining
()
Date: November 1, 2011 08:53
In a sense 'Some Girls' is a reaction to a moment, whereas 'Tattoo You' is more typically Stones like, in terms of what they had been doing in those previous years leading up to 'Some Girls'. As a whole 'Some Girls' perhaps is more fully focused and packs more of a punch, yet in many ways it is 'Tattoo You' which has the greater depth and maturity. 'Some Girls' for me wears a little thin fairly fast, but represents its time of release extremely effectively, with its stripped down sound. The Stones were pretty much shook up by the arrival of punk, and felt inspired to inject a little of punk's vitality into their music, although in a sense it was also harking back a little to their own early days. The good think about 'Some Girls' is the album actually manages to take the essence of punk, without actually doing a straight parody, although on the occasion of Jagger's vocal on 'Lies' they do perhaps run a little too close for comfort. There is also the New York theme running through much of the album, which gives this album a sort of strong transatlantic feel, being influenced both by what was going on both in the UK, and the US. Of course the punk influence isn't the only significant offering on the album. Disco, country, and more typical balladry exists too, but they are all pretty much stripped down, and without the more indulgent trimmings that would have seemed more fitting just a couple of years earlier. Ultimately, 'Some Girls' has a strong contemporary feel.
'Tattoo You' is less cohesive thematically, and musically, because as we well know the songs were pieced together from earlier sessions covering a longer period. However, having said that, this in a sense isn't unlike how the Stones operate anyway, even when songs are written and recorded in much closer proximity, they are usually not so cohesive thematically/musically sounding as the songs on 'Some Girls'. 'Tattoo You' has a much broader perspective than 'Some Girls', with much greater depth, variety, and maturity, and isn't really of its time like 'Some Girls'. The album is hard to pin down in terms of representing any kind of trend or fashion, that was musically in vogue at the time (except perhaps the loud 80s drumbeat on 'Neighbours'). 'Tattoo You' exists outside any real time frame in a musical sense, ignoring the notion of existing as a contemporary album. Longterm, i think that has been to its advantage, because it has a warmth and sincerity, perhaps lacking on 'Some Girls', yet in terms of making a splash at the time, maybe 'Some Girls' was thought to be more important. However, if i had to choose between the two of them as to which i get the most from, i'd definitely go for 'Tattoo You'.
'Tattoo You' is less cohesive thematically, and musically, because as we well know the songs were pieced together from earlier sessions covering a longer period. However, having said that, this in a sense isn't unlike how the Stones operate anyway, even when songs are written and recorded in much closer proximity, they are usually not so cohesive thematically/musically sounding as the songs on 'Some Girls'. 'Tattoo You' has a much broader perspective than 'Some Girls', with much greater depth, variety, and maturity, and isn't really of its time like 'Some Girls'. The album is hard to pin down in terms of representing any kind of trend or fashion, that was musically in vogue at the time (except perhaps the loud 80s drumbeat on 'Neighbours'). 'Tattoo You' exists outside any real time frame in a musical sense, ignoring the notion of existing as a contemporary album. Longterm, i think that has been to its advantage, because it has a warmth and sincerity, perhaps lacking on 'Some Girls', yet in terms of making a splash at the time, maybe 'Some Girls' was thought to be more important. However, if i had to choose between the two of them as to which i get the most from, i'd definitely go for 'Tattoo You'.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: November 1, 2011 09:00
and here's the winner:
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: November 1, 2011 14:23
Quote
stupidguy2Quote
whitem8
Some Girls by leaps and bounds. Far more dangerous a record. More attitude, and less polished production. The band made a cohesive statement with all NEW material. Ron's finest moment with The Stones.
Tattoo You is ok. Too slick for me, and too many throwaway songs. And it collapses from the weight of the 80's production. Start Me Up...never thought it was a great song. Ok, but not the hard edged Stones I loved on Some Girls. Some Girls is more apocalyptic with punk New York and Curtis Mayfield funk overtones. And guitars. Glorious guitars up front in the mix. Their last masterpiece.
Ditto. Every word. SG was it in the summer of 1978. It touched a chord with a more massive audience, not just rock fans. It was more a popular cultural zeitgeist moment than TY.
Bolded part absolutely correct.
Also a complete relief to long suffering stones fans...but I think the pressure was certainly on and they delivered.
The pressure was off for Tattoo You...but you still had a monster album, with better overall songs as the result. Stands the test of time far better, and the course/path the Stones should probably have stayed on in their later years.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
brianwalker
()
Date: November 1, 2011 19:45
Quote
DoxaQuote
Loudei
In a way TATTOO YOU - like the world tour 1981/82 - would have been a perfect way to end the story in a high note.
- Doxa
Except for the fact that the 81 tour was probably their worst tour. They sounded awful. Awful way to be remembered.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
brianwalker
()
Date: November 1, 2011 19:57
SG is the better album. TY is the one I listen to more these days. Mostly because Radio played kind of killed Miss You, B of b, and Shattered for me with too much play.
If you would ask me which one I would perfer if I was hearing the album for the first time, it would easily be SG. Not even close.
If you would ask me which one I would perfer if I was hearing the album for the first time, it would easily be SG. Not even close.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: November 1, 2011 19:58
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
sjs12
()
Date: November 1, 2011 21:09
On first listening impressions (I think I can remember) Some Girls was my favourite
But with time, Tattoo You has grown on me and overtaken Some Girls.
But with time, Tattoo You has grown on me and overtaken Some Girls.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: November 1, 2011 21:51
Quote
brianwalkerQuote
DoxaQuote
Loudei
In a way TATTOO YOU - like the world tour 1981/82 - would have been a perfect way to end the story in a high note.
- Doxa
Except for the fact that the 81 tour was probably their worst tour. They sounded awful. Awful way to be remembered.
OK, the 1978 tour would have been a perfect ending, live. TY would have been the crown jewel, the last goodbye.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Edward Twining
()
Date: November 2, 2011 07:08
I agree. The Stones did sound awful on the 81 tour. I think there was a rawness and spontaneity to the playing which has been lost since, yet as an overall listening experience the 81 tour leaves a lot to be desired. Jagger, especially, i think began to lose touch in the way he interpreted the songs, gruff voice and all, and it all just started to exist purely as a spectacle. The 78 tour was the last time the Stones really sounded on top form in my opinion. Obviously some of the shows were better than others, especially from the reviews i have read, yet i think it's undeniable when the Stones were at the best on this tour, they were simply awesome.
'Tattoo You' and the 81 tour do not walk hand in hand in my opinion, because quality wise there is a massive gulf between them. Maybe the 81 tour was a truer reflection of the state of the band in 81, as so much of 'Tattoo You' was derived from outtakes of when the Stones still had their muse intact. There is a wonderful richness and sophistication on 'Tattoo You' which just doesn't exist on the 81 tour, and all that followed. The difference between then and now, of course, in relation to recent overdubs to older tracks ('Exile On Main Street' and 'Some Girls') is that the passage of time between the original demos and overdubs are nowhere near comparable with regard to the length of time. Jagger at the start of the eighties still had a great voice when he exercised a little discipline, unlike today's irritatingly thin vocal overaccentuation. He could do those old rejected songs justice. However, the Stones were beginning to lose their inspiration on a significant scale, as was hinted on the previous album 'Emotional Rescue'. However, 'Emotonal Rescue' sounded like a Stones classic almost, when compared with the 'Tattoo You' follow up, 'Undercover'.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-02 07:09 by Edward Twining.
'Tattoo You' and the 81 tour do not walk hand in hand in my opinion, because quality wise there is a massive gulf between them. Maybe the 81 tour was a truer reflection of the state of the band in 81, as so much of 'Tattoo You' was derived from outtakes of when the Stones still had their muse intact. There is a wonderful richness and sophistication on 'Tattoo You' which just doesn't exist on the 81 tour, and all that followed. The difference between then and now, of course, in relation to recent overdubs to older tracks ('Exile On Main Street' and 'Some Girls') is that the passage of time between the original demos and overdubs are nowhere near comparable with regard to the length of time. Jagger at the start of the eighties still had a great voice when he exercised a little discipline, unlike today's irritatingly thin vocal overaccentuation. He could do those old rejected songs justice. However, the Stones were beginning to lose their inspiration on a significant scale, as was hinted on the previous album 'Emotional Rescue'. However, 'Emotonal Rescue' sounded like a Stones classic almost, when compared with the 'Tattoo You' follow up, 'Undercover'.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-02 07:09 by Edward Twining.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: November 2, 2011 15:04
Quote
Edward Twining
I agree. The Stones did sound awful on the 81 tour. I think there was a rawness and spontaneity to the playing which has been lost since, yet as an overall listening experience the 81 tour leaves a lot to be desired. Jagger, especially, i think began to lose touch in the way he interpreted the songs, gruff voice and all, and it all just started to exist purely as a spectacle. The 78 tour was the last time the Stones really sounded on top form in my opinion. Obviously some of the shows were better than others, especially from the reviews i have read, yet i think it's undeniable when the Stones were at the best on this tour, they were simply awesome.
'Tattoo You' and the 81 tour do not walk hand in hand in my opinion, because quality wise there is a massive gulf between them. Maybe the 81 tour was a truer reflection of the state of the band in 81, as so much of 'Tattoo You' was derived from outtakes of when the Stones still had their muse intact. There is a wonderful richness and sophistication on 'Tattoo You' which just doesn't exist on the 81 tour, and all that followed. The difference between then and now, of course, in relation to recent overdubs to older tracks ('Exile On Main Street' and 'Some Girls') is that the passage of time between the original demos and overdubs are nowhere near comparable with regard to the length of time. Jagger at the start of the eighties still had a great voice when he exercised a little discipline, unlike today's irritatingly thin vocal overaccentuation. He could do those old rejected songs justice. However, the Stones were beginning to lose their inspiration on a significant scale, as was hinted on the previous album 'Emotional Rescue'. However, 'Emotonal Rescue' sounded like a Stones classic almost, when compared with the 'Tattoo You' follow up, 'Undercover'.
agree with everything except the slag on Undercover...I love the sound of that album and the songs, and the attempt to chart new territory. Sometime during that recording the whole thing started to unravel and we get 6 years in the wilderness and a metamorphisis...Dirty Work, the solo albums, WWIII and finally the rebirth in 1989 of the Vegas Stones.
Tattoo You was a mid-career peak though, in a 'Big 4-part deux', framed by Some Girls and Undercover. Emotional Rescue is the weakest of the bunch, but still quite credible.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: June 21, 2015 02:05
Some Girl.
It's close though.
It's close though.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Bashlets
()
Date: June 21, 2015 05:29
Tattoo is just a more mature sounding album to me. Side 2 along with side 2 of Exile is like the most cohesive piece of music they have ever done. The only track on TY I dont like is Neighbors. loved it when I was 18 but I think its the worst cut on the album.
Yes, Some Girls is wonderful but there is just something a little bit more special about Tattoo for me.
Yes, Some Girls is wonderful but there is just something a little bit more special about Tattoo for me.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 21, 2015 06:00
Hadn't we already declared Tattoo You the winner in the Album Death Match ring last month?
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
jrcjohnny99
()
Date: June 21, 2015 06:57
TY for me, I always thought SG was their most overrated album;
Of course, that may be partly because of how much I dislike Miss You...
Of course, that may be partly because of how much I dislike Miss You...
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 21, 2015 08:37
Quote
treaclefingers
Hadn't we already declared Tattoo You the winner in the Album Death Match ring last month?
I'm told the Album Death Match has become involved in the same scandal as the FIFA world's cup and the rulings are no longer considered valid.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
SackofBrokenEggs
()
Date: June 21, 2015 08:50
I like both of these albums equally, and they're two of my favorite albums of all time. It's interesting, though, that the entirety of the Some Girls album has a richer bass sound than anything the Stones had put out up until that point. Apparently, Bill didn't have his usual bass that he used on the majority of every other Stones album up until Some Girls, when they recorded that whole record in in NY. Kind of interesting... Some Girls just has a different flavor to it with the bass....
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
HearMeKnockin
()
Date: June 21, 2015 09:25
SG over TY, imho.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 21, 2015 16:56
Quote
Turner68Quote
treaclefingers
Hadn't we already declared Tattoo You the winner in the Album Death Match ring last month?
I'm told the Album Death Match has become involved in the same scandal as the FIFA world's cup and the rulings are no longer considered valid.
are you saying this should be decided on penalty kicks?
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 21, 2015 17:40
As good as SOME GIRLS is, TATTOO YOU smokes it.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
RollingFreak
()
Date: June 21, 2015 17:49
Not even close for me. Some Girls. Thats their last great original album from start to finish. Tattoo You, as good as it is, is outtakes from previous records. Its a hodgepodge of songs from different eras and while I can't really tell that, it lessens the album to me. That album was constructed, it wasn't naturally made, if that makes sense. But thats really a minor concern. The bottom line is I don't like every song on Tattoo You and think Slave, Black Limousine, Heaven and No Use In Crying are bad. While the only poor songs I really think on Some Girls are Miss You and Shattered.
So for me, Some Girls is better because its a more natural, traditional record, and for all intents and purposes I like the whole thing whereas Tattoo You is patchy and just a compilation.
So for me, Some Girls is better because its a more natural, traditional record, and for all intents and purposes I like the whole thing whereas Tattoo You is patchy and just a compilation.
Re: Which one is better, Tattoo You or Some Girls?
Posted by:
kammpberg
()
Date: June 21, 2015 17:55
Pound for pound - Some Girls is an incredibly great Stones album. song after song is great with the exception of "Lies" which is still a fun little punk rocker. Tattoo You is also great but more spotty with some peaks and valleys - Black Limousine is fine but pedestrian, as is Neighbours. Side two of TY is a great listen and unique in the Stones cannon (with the exception of Exile side 2) being really an acoustic side which flows awesomely. Tops especially is a great lost classic. I like Worried About You, but still feel its kind of overated though.
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