I saw a post recently about the prices of Elvis memorabilia dropping as the offspring of the serious collectors sold their 'estates' and flooded the market with memorabilia.

I wondered to myself if that's what collectors have also done by sharing our collections here on IORR into the digital realm.

Personally, I'm happy to enjoy receiving it all, although I do miss the 'buzz' of finding a new Rolling Stones 'treasure' in the Second Hand Book shop, or the local Record Store.

Your Thoughts?

Yes, of course, we did.
When I was very young, some books were like a sort of a bible for Collectors. What was in those books became your desiderata and this increased the value of what the community of Collectors was chasing. In other words, so many people after so few items. On top of that, when you received your parcel, the thrill was high as it might happen that you had never seen the item inside before...
Nowadays, no thrill has left. But. still, there's a great difference between those who have collectibles and those who simply watch and it's a gap that can't be filled. Nowadays, the 'buzz' you miss so is still possible on the net, rather than in record shops. It's not a long time since I found some ALO productions never reported before in any discography.
It's up to you, actually.That said, I believe that sharing is ok, if you decide to enter a community like this. My way of sharing is passing my know-how to fellow Collectors. Bye, Luca



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-10 09:24 by 1963luca0.

Yeah I remember the old days at record-fairs with dudes getting
around with those books that listed the value of collectable records
.... thought about getting one for myself until I found out that some of the
guys who published them devalued lots of rare records until they found
a copy for themselves and then by the next edition the prices of those
records they'd found had gone through the roof ...... HHHHHHHAAAAA SLY cheatin' bastards .... Ya gotta laugh don't ya



ROCKMAN

Hope so. Some kid who is gonna really matter gonna get exposed to something that lights his heart and inspiration. Gonna connect him or her to the core of their power, and they're gonna devote themselves to find their own unique response and pay the dues it takes to be able to respond and project that in an important way that moves and connects other people. And that's a holy mission to be a little part of. Play the stock market if it's about money or boutique markets.

It is very natural. Fans grow old and die. Now as an heir what do you do with a vast collection of memorabilia if you are not interested? You try to sell the items. At the same time, these big stars from the 1950s and 1960s do not draw enough new fans to keep prices for memorabilia high.

And of course, the gigantic offers of unreleased music, e.g. on YouTube, leads you to think if it is worthwhile to pay hundreds of dollars for a collector's item which you can easily access on your computer.

On the other hand, things back then were not always that easy. If you ordered a bootleg record by mail you never knew if it was any good. Once I bought a rather expensive bootleg of the 1970 Essen concert and it was so miserable that I probably listened once to it. Then, of course, in 1977 I bought 'Nasty Music'which completely blew me off and still does to this day... the best live recording ever.

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midimannz
I saw a post recently about the prices of Elvis memorabilia dropping as

... Elvis fans die, that was the explanation. Nothing to do with sharing stuff online for free.

Elvis fans don't die. They tune to a higher frequency where they don't need the hardware.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-10 10:51 by hopkins.

Yeah the Elvis thing is completely unrelated to sharing boots online, which is a GREAT improvement, it's only hurt the bootleggers and resellers honestly and these guys are in no position to complain ! Now some would argue that we wouldn't have these boots if there hadn't been an incentive for people to sell them in the first place...dunno. What I know is that many of us blew loads of cash on these boots when there was no other option !

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Collecting memorabilia and sharing music via internet are apples and oranges. You can not compare those.

What matters is that offspring do not care and drop memorabilia to the used bins. This is true. And you can find a lot of rare items for cheap these days. This is the tendency for all old artists and vanishing/dying fan base. Sad but true.

However, the statement that prices went down is big generalization. For example, I was monitoring for about 10 years ebay prices for Japanese CD Tattoo You [CD35-3032], 'black triangle' label design. Apparently, historically this is the very first CD of The Rolling Stones that appeared on the market some time in the summer of 1983 and was removed from the shelves in 1984 (or early 1985 ) due to contractual obligations. The pressing run was rather small for this one. I would estimate - a half comparing to the The Beatles - Abbey Road [CP35-3016] and some 20-25% of Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [CP35-3017]. Actually, this is one of the collector's candies .

So within this period the prices varied from ~$15 (for a 'cat-toy' CD with playback problems) via ~$30-$40 (for a 'playcopy' with writing on the label and/or booklet damages) to ~$50-$60 for very good copies w/o OBI and up to $100-$250 range for copies in EX or NM state in their original smooth sided jewel cases. A year or so ago a sealed copy complete with OBI was sold for $600. But most of those CD's were sold with $150-$250 price tag. And I can not tell that the prices for this particular CD change a lot within past years.

Another example. There are tons of reports on Steve Hoffman's forum like 'I just picked 'yellow target' of The Rolling Stones - Still Life in a thrift store for just $1'. But if you go to ebay or discogs you'll rarely see one for less than $40. Although it is not $100 like a few years back.

Vinyl collectors could claim quite similar stories.

What I am saying - statistics is a two ways street .

There will always be demand for high end collectibles. All that online sharing has done is reduce the number of collector's willing to pay top dollar for the bootlegs.

When I was just getting around to understanding bootlegs and outtakes of The Rolling Stones someone loaned me a handful of studio bootlegs.

YouTube (and whatever else) has made that easier. Strictly in terms of having it to listen to, of course.

Share. Enjoy.

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StonedInTokyo
There will always be demand for high end collectibles. All that online sharing has done is reduce the number of collector's willing to pay top dollar for the bootlegs.

Many of those boots made here in the IORR factory and on sold too I suppose

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exilestones
Share. Enjoy.

You can not share via internet the feeling you have when you dig a gem in the used bins .

if you buy something as an investment treat it strictly as such and consider the risks objectionably.

if you want it for other reasons pay what you feel it's right and consider the money lost. don't use the "it's an investment" argument to justify the price tag because with emotions involved you are hardly able to consider the risk objectionably...

and btw: the dealers get rich because they follow the first rule and the collectors get poor because they do the 2nd thing and pay inflated prices.

We have devalued the bootleggers market by sharing for free,(which is fine with me),tho some collectors will still look for/buy factory(silver)pressed boots at the $20-$25 per disk price.....which is what I used to pay back in late 80's-early 2000's....

midimannz, Greetings and Salutations .

Give me a PM when fully signed Stones records will be shared for free :p



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-11 16:49 by shattered1978.

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dcba

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midimannz
I saw a post recently about the prices of Elvis memorabilia dropping as

... Elvis fans die, that was the explanation. Nothing to do with sharing stuff online for free.

I think he knew that........ie. midimannz saw an article/post about the Elvis market being flooded by 'collections from estates' suddenly being released and Elvis memorabilia generally, being subsequently devalued and then went on to wonder if digital sharing of Stones bootlegs on IORR had had the same effect on that physical vinyl/CD market...............

Quote Midimannz......"I wondered to myself if that's what collectors have also done by sharing our collections here on IORR into the digital realm".

Great DVDs by the way Midi...........



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-11 17:06 by EddieByword.

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EddieByword

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dcba

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midimannz
I saw a post recently about the prices of Elvis memorabilia dropping as

... Elvis fans die, that was the explanation. Nothing to do with sharing stuff online for free.

I think he knew that........

I think my idea is still valid. Fans will fight for a special item (a sleeve with a typo) as long as there are fighters. You may have a pdf of said item but nothing will replace having the item in your hands.

If fans/collectors die, well... no need to explain further.

Elvis collections are going down in value, then it'll be the Beatles' turn, then... the Stones'?

A couple of people on this forum have stated that they have very rare recordings of the Stones that they will not put online because the recordings will lose not monetary value, but value as an article of exchange. These collectors apparently trade rare recordings within their limited circle.

Music is music and collectibles are collectibles but they are not, nor should they b, the same. Special pressings, covers, packaging, etc. can make a collectible item out of a recording but the recording itself should be readily available and is meant to be heard and to be enjoyed by the fans. Just my opinion. I started collecting RS stuff back in 1982 and know the "pain" of paying for a recording that is nothing special or particularly collectible (the recording itself that is) because I could only find it in some limited, collectible packaging, etc.

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blivet
A couple of people on this forum have stated that they have very rare recordings of the Stones that they will not put online because the recordings will lose not monetary value, but value as an article of exchange. These collectors apparently trade rare recordings within their limited circle.

Also, I believe that if you start widely sharing rare recordings (how did you happen to come by this?!) and they get out into the hands of people who might sell them, you might draw the attention of the Stones' lawyers.

Well, we certainly have 'devalued' life by putting a price tag on everything; by making everything (a) 'business'.

Then you get expressions (no offence, please!; nothing personal) like "sharing for free" (I believe something like that is called a pleonasm, isn't it?); whereas it should simply read "sharing" - period.

Because "sharing at a cost" would not be 'sharing'; that would be sélling.

And too bad a collector's hobby/ passion has (had to?) become - and therefore is called, like everything else these days - "a market".


But these are just a couple of loose observations of a (probably) naïve 'old-fashionato'...

So I'll get my coat now.

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RoughJusticeOnYa
Well, we certainly have 'devalued' life by putting a price tag on everything; by making everything (a) 'business'.

Then you get expressions (no offence, please!; nothing personal) like "sharing for free" (I believe something like that is called a pleonasm, isn't it?); whereas it should simply read "sharing" - period.

Because "sharing at a cost" would not be 'sharing'; that would be sélling.

And too bad a collector's hobby/ passion has (had to?) become - and therefore is called, like everything else these days - "a market".


But these are just a couple of loose observations of a (probably) naïve 'old-fashionato'...

So I'll get my coat now.

......also, there's no such thing as 'for free'............proper English (like wot the queen do talk) ...is either..... 'You can have it for nothing' or 'You can have it free of (a) charge' .............

not 'for free'............pleeeeeeeeeeeease, it hurts the ears worse than Keith's Infamy....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-11 20:13 by EddieByword.

Cold ice!

How water heater!

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Rockman
Yeah I remember the old days at record-fairs with dudes getting
around with those books that listed the value of collectable records
.... thought about getting one for myself until I found out that some of the
guys who published them devalued lots of rare records until they found
a copy for themselves and then by the next edition the prices of those
records they'd found had gone through the roof ...... HHHHHHHAAAAA SLY cheatin' bastards .... Ya gotta laugh don't ya

LOL.. and now we have DISCOGS.

There is something to be said about going to a record fair and finding a rare LP. I don't think it killed the market though.

Maybe when I start seeing copies of Tarle's Exile going for less than $500 I'll start to worry.

LOL.. and now we have DISCOGS.


YEAH!!! ... those dudes charge harder than a bull in a china shop ...



ROCKMAN

You can't share such items.
The Rolling Stones - Promotional Album - Genuine *SIGNED* UK Decca RSM1 Promo LP
End Price: GBP 8989
(EUR 11929)
Start Price: GBP 500
End Date: 2015-11-22
Start Date: 2015-11-12
Number of bids: 34
Country: Austria
Auctioned at: ebay