I recently replicated on my computor the entirely redundant and unnecessary (as far as my collection is concerned) new "ROLLED GOLD+" compendium for my own edification. For many of the tracks, rather than use the 2002 "Hot Rocks" and "More Hot Rocks" ABCKO versions I opted for the sames songs from a Sister Morphine boot from a few years back called "Could You Walk On Water" which contains 'remastered' versions of studio tracks primarily from the 1965-66 era. I recall reading that the tracks were taken from a "wide stereo" version of "Hot Rocks" sold in Japan. Perhaps it's the equipment upgrades I've treated myself to in recent years or maybe just listening consistently to the recent ABCKO versions, but the difference is indeed remarkable. The stereo imaging is indeed very wide and the sonic detail therein is amazing. The so-called S.M. remastering made "Ruby Tuesday" and the "Satanic Majesties'" tracks sound especially warm and detailed.

I just wondered if anyone else had any thoughts on "wide" stereo or "Could You Walk On Water." I'm tired of chatting about off-topics like Springsteen and Amy Winehouse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-28 15:40 by R.

yes I agree the "Walk On Water" rmst. is a must for stereo (along with mickboys "Only When Its Frozen" disc 2 to fill out unavailable songs). And when you get tired of wide stereo mixes it's fun to listen to Mono mixes and compare. thats why I recently ordered a "Let It Bleed" mono mix cd off ebay. Cant wait to give a listen!!!

Could You Walk by SM was simply taken of the "On the Needle" series of discs (I believe there were 21 discs). "On the Needle" was a set of discs especially for radio stations. With the set the stations had the best material in the best sound.

There's not much SM added to the recordings.

Mathijs

i belive that sometimes the stereo mix is better but with some recordings the mono mix is the best . perfect example is satisfaction . i feel the stereo version takes away the power *or muscle you could say* of the song

ghostryder13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i belive that sometimes the stereo mix is better
> but with some recordings the mono mix is the best
> . perfect example is satisfaction . i feel the
> stereo version takes away the power *or muscle you
> could say* of the song


yes I agree about the satisfaction remark, actually feel that way about alot of the early stuff. Maybe cause my first memory of the songs were the "hot" 45 AM mixes! anyway thats basically why I ordered the Bleed mono mix-to compare.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could You Walk by SM was simply taken of the "On
> the Needle" series of discs (I believe there were
> 21 discs). "On the Needle" was a set of discs
> especially for radio stations. With the set the
> stations had the best material in the best sound.
>
>
> There's not much SM added to the recordings.
>
> Mathijs

interesting-tell us more about these "on the needle" releases!

the radio stations in my area--NYC, a major metropolitan market--must not have been provided with these "On the Needle" releases, since it's radio where the older material often sounds crappy. How widely were they distributed?

[www.iorr.org]


IORR............but I like it!

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could You Walk by SM was simply taken of the "On
> the Needle" series of discs (I believe there were
> 21 discs). "On the Needle" was a set of discs
> especially for radio stations. With the set the
> stations had the best material in the best sound.
>
>
> There's not much SM added to the recordings.
>
> Mathijs


Hmmmn....fascinating.

Maybe hearing one of those is what prompted me to phone my local Classic Rocker, over fifteen years ago, to ask what source they had for "Satisfaction" when I heard them play it. The acoustic guitars were so prominent in the mix I was sure it was something different.

"Could You Walk On Water" had no proper liner notes of course. All I had to go by was a printout somebody posted on the old Sticky Fingers Journal e-letter which said the sources, or at least the versions, were "Hot Rocks" where applicable. The Japanense thing was just stock in my head from somewhere.

This all begs the question then: WHY and WHEN were these wide-stereo mixes produced? Was it done specifically for radio or were they also intended for commercial distribution and if so, where and on what titles?

The Aftermath songs can be had, officially, on the original German CD "After-math" from the Mid 80s....INCREDIBLE QUALITY.

JR

scottkeef Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> thats why I
> recently ordered a "Let It Bleed" mono mix cd off
> ebay. Cant wait to give a listen!!!


The MONO "Let It Bleed" is incredibke. A whole new listening experience.

I actually have an extra copy of the UK MONO vinyl LP if anyone is interested in a potential purchase.

J

let it bleed mono version is a great listen indeed i also like the mono version of beggars banquet

JMARKO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> scottkeef Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > thats why I
> > recently ordered a "Let It Bleed" mono mix cd
> off
> > ebay. Cant wait to give a listen!!!
>
>
> The MONO "Let It Bleed" is incredibke. A whole new
> listening experience.
>
> I actually have an extra copy of the UK MONO vinyl
> LP if anyone is interested in a potential
> purchase.
>
> JMARKO< just wanted to let you know I received my Bleed Mono cd and you could not be more right. It kicks ass!! Think this was just a straight vinyl to disc since you can here some slight surface noise occasionally? makes me want to find the other monos. Are the maximus releases monos of the early stuff? are is it fraudulant? thought you might know.

Found some interesting info on Could you Walk on water here: [www.rollingstonesnet.com].

"The Rolling Stones were recorded in multitrack stereo in early recording sessions at Chess Studios in Chicago and RCA Studios in Hollywood. Tracks for Decca #2 and "Rolling Stones Now" have the earliest true stereo material.

CD1 (Could You Walk On Water?)

1. 19th Nervous Breakdown - Opening guitar riff in the left channel with rhythm guitar in the far right. Vocal in the middle. This is the alternate take with a slightly different vocal. Jagger rolls the r's in right and emphasizes certain words like "tax", "comes" and "stop".

2. Sad Day (2:59) - Opening: cymbals left and maracas right. Vocal middle left, drums split the far channels. The track is in "dry" mono on the "London Years" compilation. "Electronically Reprocessed" on the UK LP "No Stone Unturned". It's an RCA 1965 Studio session track, so it is very likely that a true stereo take was cut on the multitrack there but it has never circulated. I would guess that "width" & "exciter" effect has been added to the "Electronically Reprocessed" track to enhance the stereo and provide depth to the highs. Note that the drum and cymbal are split in the main body of the track. This is typical of the bass/treble reprocessing used by London (Decca) to simulate stereo. This one sounds particularly outstanding.

3. Take It Or Leave It - Richards and organ right. Jagger main vocal center. Acoustic guitar and drums in the left channel. This track is found in wide stereo on the Japanese CD "Flowers" (POCD-1967).

4. Think - Distorted "fuzz" guitar right, acoustic guitar/drums left, vocal middle. Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram and US "Aftermath" CD's.

5. Goin' Home - Electric guitar/drum/bass/harp left, lead vocal middle, lead guitar & backing vocal right. Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram "Aftermath" CD (Matrix: 820 050-2 01). In "narrow" stereo on the US version of the CD.

5. Mother's Little Helper - Acoustic guitar/feedback/bass far left, electric guitar far right, vocal middle with reverb. Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram "Aftermath" which is the UK version of the track listing. Also in stereo on the Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 25047.

6. Sittin' On A Fence - Two lovely guitars split the channels. Rhythm guitar and Harpsichord left with guitar lead lines right. Lead and backing vocals center. This track is found in wide stereo on the Japanese CD "Flowers" (POCD-1967).

7. Don't You Follow Me - Drum/rhythm guitar left, lead guitar right, vocal middle. This is not an alternate vocal take. Found in wide stereo on the German PolyGram and US "Aftermath" CD's.

8. Ride On Baby - Harpsichord , lead guitar, xylophone, and bongos right channel. Drums and bass left with vocal in the middle. This track is found in wide stereo on the Japanese CD "Flowers" (POCD-1967).

9. Looking Tired - Guitar left channel. Piano right channel and bass middle right. Vocal middle. This track first found in stereo on the 3CD "The Black Box" on Yellow Dog Records.

10. Have You Seen You Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadow? - This is the alternate vocal /instrumental take in best possible monaural quality.

11. Stupid Girl - Guitar right, drums/bass/keyboard left, vocal middle. Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram "Aftermath" CD. In "narrow" stereo on the US CD.

12. Lady Jane - Lap Dobro/guitar arpeggio far right, vocal middle, bell & harpsichord (at 1:42) far left. Check out the bell sounds in the opening section of the song! Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram "Aftermath". In "narrow" stereo on the US CD!

13. Flight 505 - Vocal middle, drums/bass far left, piano/guitar right. Found in wide stereo on the German PolyGram and US "Aftermath" CD's.

14. High And Dry - Mouth harp/guitar right, high hat left, vocal middle. Found in wide stereo on the German PolyGram and US "Aftermath" CD's.

15. Out Of Time - (Long 5:35 version) - Finger snaps/acoustic guitar/organ far right, marimba/bass/drum far left, vocal middle. Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram "Aftermath" CD.

16. It's Not Easy - Guitars far right, drums far left, vocal middle. Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram "Aftermath". In "narrow" stereo on the US CD.

17. I Am Waiting - Acoustic guitar far right, tambourine/bass/cymbals left, vocal middle. Found in wide stereo on German PolyGram "Aftermath". In "narrow" stereo on the US CD.

18. What to Do - Drums/bass/hand claps far left, acoustic & electric guitar far right, vocal middle. Found in wide stereo on the Japanese "More Hot Rocks (big hits & fazed cookies)" POCD-1930, and on the German PolyGram "Aftermath" CD. This track has been brightened up with "exciter" and just a tad of added bass boost. Nicely done.

19. Long, Long While - Acoustic guitar/drums far left, Keith/Jagger back-ups far right, lead vocal middle. The song is in re-processed stereo on the vinyl LP "No Stone Unturned" on Decca which is a fine sonic recording of the song. This track was recorded at RCA studios which means that it is more than likely that a 4-track recording was made of this song.

20. Who's Driving Your Plane? - A mono take of the great little known B-side. The song is also in re-processed stereo on the vinyl LP "No Stone Unturned"

CD2

1. Time Is On My Side - Organ introduction version. Bass and drums right channel, vocal middle, and guitar left channel. Also found in true stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479. Note: Guitar introduction version in wide stereo on Japanese "No. 2" P25L 25033.

2. Heart of Stone - Rhythm guitar and drums left channel, lead vocal middle, tambourine, lead guitar, and back-up vocal right channel. Also found in true stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479, Japanese "Big Hits (High Tide And Green Grass)" POCD-1056, Japanese "Big Hits (High Tide And Green Grass)" POCD-1964

3. Heart of Stone #2 - This is the "Metamorphosis" version of the song in reprocessed stereo. Treble instrumentation left and bass instrumentation right (more or less).

4. The Last Time - This is the better quality version of the stereo take that has surfaced in the past year. An unusual stereo mix with all instruments left channel and all vocals right channel. MONO or re-processed stereo on all commercially available recordings.

5. Play With Fire - Acoustic guitar and harpsichord left, vocal middle, and tambourine and bongos right channel. Also found in true stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479

6. Satisfaction - Electric fuzz guitar and bass left channel, prominent acoustic rhythm guitar strumming right channel, and lead vocal and drums middle. The is the most unusual of all early Stones songs in true stereo. The clear separation of the second acoustic guitar changes the whole feel of the track, almost to the extent that it could be considered an outtake! Also found in true stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479

7. Get Off My Cloud - Drums and bass left, vocal middle, and lead guitar lines, clapping, back -up vocals right channel. Also found in true stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479

8. As Tears Go By - This is a mono take of the song.

9. 19th Nervous Breakdown - Guitars split the channels, vocal middle. This is the commercially released vocal take of the song in wide stereo. Outta sight!

10. Paint It Black - Sitar far right, drums/bass far left, vocal middle. Also found in true stereo on: Japanese version of "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479

11. Under My Thumb - Electric & acoustic guitar right, drums/"fuzz" bass and marimba left, vocal middle. This is my favorite early Stones track. Also found in true stereo on: German PolyGram "Aftermath".

12. Have You Seen You Mother Baby, Standing In The Shadow? - Drums left, vocals and bass middle, horns and piano right channel. "Fuzz" guitar in the left channel. A little "brassy" sounding. Also found in true stereo on Japanese "Flowers". Narrow stereo with a favor to the left channel.

13. Let's Spend the Night Together - Piano/drums right, bass left, vocal middle. Also found in true stereo on: German PolyGram "Between The Buttons", Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479.

14. Ruby Tuesday - Piano right, strings left/ tambourine, vocal middle. Also found in true stereo on: German PolyGram " Between The Buttons", US "Between The Buttons"!, Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" order number P25L 250479.

15. Jumpin' Jack Flash - Guitar one left channel, guitar two right channel, guitar three, drums, bass and vocal middle. Also found in true stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 2" P25L 25048. Not a dramatic stereo mix, but the difference is noticeable. Narrow stereo on: "singles collection*the london years"

16. Street Fighting Man - Guitar far right, drums far left, and vocals in the middle. This track has been brightened up with "exciter" and sound much clearer than commercial releases. Also found in true stereo on: US "Beggars Banquet" CD.

17. Honky Tonk Women - Cow bell far right, horns and open G guitar chug right channel, second lead guitar left channel, and vocal and drums middle. Also found in true stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 2" P25L 25048.

18. You Can't Always Get What You Want - Single version of the song without the London Bach Choir introduction, but in stereo. Opening: Acoustic guitar, horn, and vocal center. Acoustic guitar shift to right channel at :31. Piano and lead electric guitar right channel. Castanets center. Organ left. Also found in true stereo on: US "Hot Rocks", "Let It Bleed" CD's with the London Bach Choir introduction. Single version found on "singles collection*the london years" CD. Acoustic guitar shift to right channel at :31! This is the source track used by Sister Morphine as evidenced by this unique "marker"."

BTW, his album has been posted on Hot Stuff by Edmund a few months ago: [www.iorr.org].

I am looking for a stereo version of Time is on my side (ORGAN INTRO). This not the version I have on Could you walk on water, which is the later guitar intro version. (Or do I have a wrong version of Could you walk on water?)
Maybe it has been released also in stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" London/Polydor P25L 250479 of 1989, which I obviously don't have.
See:

[ronkanefiles.wordpress.com]

Anyone, please?

Alex.

To my memory this version of TIOMS is available from HD Tracks. I remember playing it lately. Also, I think their 12X5 has about 6 "stereo" tracks.

Quote
alexander paul
I am looking for a stereo version of Time is on my side (ORGAN INTRO). This not the version I have on Could you walk on water, which is the later guitar intro version. (Or do I have a wrong version of Could you walk on water?)
Maybe it has been released also in stereo on: Japanese "Hot Rocks 1" London/Polydor P25L 250479 of 1989, which I obviously don't have.
See:

[ronkanefiles.wordpress.com]

Anyone, please?

Alex.

The version of TIOMS on the Japanese Hot Rocks you're referring to is the guitar intro version.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Guys, do yourself a favor and bookmark old-good Luke&Dave FAQ
[www.lukpac.org]
And this one also
[www.lukpac.org]

BTW, (setting aside MFSL vinyls) those wide stereo versions sounds better on original WG London CDs. Japanese P33L, P25L and early POCD are slightly 'tweaked' in terms of peak level and EQ. "Could You Walk On Water" from SM sound a bit lifeless to me, just IMHO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-19 20:58 by ironbelly.

Let It Bleed mono does sound good but apparently it's just a fold-down, not a dedicated mono mix. Ditto Beggars save for Street Fighting Man (?).
Agree with the hot 45's mix comment. The prime example of this is Get Off Of My Cloud - the stereo is absolute wimpy crap but the 45 knocks the house down. Just goes to show how important the mix process is.