I stumbled across the site linked below:

Rolling Stones HD tracks

Has anyone downloaded any of these "high fidelity" albums/tracks? If so, is there a marked difference between a CD I can buy via Amazon or Best Buy and these albums/tracks?

I have streamed a number of tracks from the site and they have all sounded great. Not US$29.98-per-album great, though. US$29.98 to download an album download (with no physical medium) is rather high (in my humble opinion).

Also, if one has downloaded an album through this site, which format (aiff, alac, wav, flac) was downloaded? All of these different formats confuse me.

Thanks.

PS: I apologize if this topic has been previously posted. I searched IORR prior to starting this thread, so if the topic was posted, I cannot find it.

EDITED FOR SPELLING





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-15 16:03 by MILKYWAY.

The answer is a little bit complicated but,the short answer is yes,the High Resolution HD Tracks are better and sound better than standard quality digital CD tracks and of course better than mP3 tracks.

Really,though,it depends on the source of the tracks. To actually benefit,the high resolution HD tracks would have to be sourced from 24-bit or 32-bit studio masters.

You would assume that this was / is how it is done but,I remember someone posting on this site back in 2011 that the SOME GIRLS HD tracks were sourced from the same 16-bit master as the CD tracks (and below) were. That mitigates any benefit if it is true. I cannot say for sure if it is true or not because,I never got around to buying the HD tracks,although I plan to at some point down the road.

Furthermore,IF you already own the year 2002 Abkco Super Audio CD hybrid discs of the Stones' 1960's material,I would say that there is no need to upgrade these albums. Super Audio CD (SA-CD) is just as good as these HD Tracks can potentially be.

There SHOULD and could be a benefit to upgrading your conventional CD's with high resolution HD tracks.

Any Stones material from 1971 forward SHOULD be best in the 176 kHz / 24-bit digital audio format. Just keep in mind that the Some Girls release and maybe others ALLEGEDLY do not take full advantage of the HD format .

Also,to really notice the benefit,you need to have an audio system (an A/V receiver or an A/V processor) capable of handling these formats of high resolution audio !!

You're probably looking at a home system as opposed to an automobile system as I have not yet heard of an automobile audio system capable of handling these formats of HD audio although they COULD be out there. Maybe burn the HD Tracks as DVD Audio or Blu-ray Audio ??

As far as the "no physical medium" goes,you can of course,copy these HD Tracks to U.S.B. Flash Drive sticks and also they can be copied to high capacity SD camera cards but ..... no official artwork .... I see what you're saying there.


Overall,I'd say that the HD Tracks are worth it,IF they are mastered correctly in a way where the listener can benefit.

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MILKYWAY

Also, if one has downloaded an album through this site, which format (aiff, alac, wav, flac) was downloaded? All of these different formats confuse me.

The mentioned file formats are all lossless and you get the same audio quality with each format:

AIFF: [en.wikipedia.org]

ALAC: [en.wikipedia.org]

WAV: [en.wikipedia.org]

FLAC: [en.wikipedia.org]

It depends on how (on which devices) you want to play the files and which file format you should choose then.

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MILKYWAY

PS: I apologize if this topic has been previously posted. I searched IORR prior to starting this thread, so if the topic was posted, I cannot find it.

Use the Search Bar on the IORR-News-Page and search for e. g. "HD tracks". There are more results for appropriate Threads than I can link here .....



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-15 23:20 by Irix.

Are these the same ones they've had? Or did they just "improve" them again? Somebody had uploaded the HD version of LIB, and my mind was not blown. At least not $30 blown. I'm still bummed I didn't win that LIB guitar they had the contest for.

The HDtracks downloads will sound better if you play them on a proper equipement.

HDtracks has two different HD files available for download : 88.2kHz and 176.4kHz. To play these files and get the most of them you will need a soundcard capable of playing high frequencies files or a DAC (digital to analog converter) that can play these high frequencies.

With the right equipement, the HDtracks files sound really better than their CD counterparts.

Also worth noting, the HDtracks files are all made from the Bob Ludwig 2002 remasters. They are the same as the CD and hybrid SACD released then.


If you're a PC user, get the FLAC files. ALAC is better for Mac users.

I went back to that HD Tracks site after seeing it a few years ago and the same frustration still exists. You can get it in either 176 or 78 but look at that Madonna banner at the top of the page. You can get her stuff at 192 or 96.

The industry won't tell you WE ARE HERE. Technology has finally gotten the digital quality to the point where the master tapes are mirrored. Put a price tag on it already and make 192 the standard. Don't give people a choice. Pick the lossless format dammit. If it's lossless then the format don't matter. Choose one and get it done.

Also should they stop messing with the master tapes already? Each time they take them out it degrades their quality along with the fact they are getting very very old. Each time the tape passes though any equipment it leaves both magnetic particles from the tape and the tapes physically leaves small residue behind on the equipment.

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nick
I went back to that HD Tracks site after seeing it a few years ago and the same frustration still exists. You can get it in either 176 or 78 but look at that Madonna banner at the top of the page. You can get her stuff at 192 or 96.

The industry won't tell you WE ARE HERE. Technology has finally gotten the digital quality to the point where the master tapes are mirrored. Put a price tag on it already and make 192 the standard. Don't give people a choice. Pick the lossless format dammit. If it's lossless then the format don't matter. Choose one and get it done.

Also should they stop messing with the master tapes already? Each time they take them out it degrades their quality along with the fact they are getting very very old. Each time the tape passes though any equipment it leaves both magnetic particles from the tape and the tapes physically leaves small residue behind on the equipment.

Stones HDtracks downloads are made from DSD masters (used for SACD). 88.2kHz and 176.4kHz frequencies are said to get better results than 192kHz when resampled from DSD files.

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kowalski
The HDtracks downloads will sound better if you play them on a proper equipement.

HDtracks has two different HD files available for download : 88.2kHz and 176.4kHz. To play these files and get the most of them you will need a soundcard capable of playing high frequencies files or a DAC (digital to analog converter) that can play these high frequencies.

With the right equipement, the HDtracks files sound really better than their CD counterparts.

Also worth noting, the HDtracks files are all made from the Bob Ludwig 2002 remasters. They are the same as the CD and hybrid SACD released then.


If you're a PC user, get the FLAC files. ALAC is better for Mac users.

So just a point of clarification, if we already have the 2002 SACDs, then these are completely redundant.

Also, if we can happen to find used SACDs on EBAY for less, then at $30 for just the download, these are quite pricey.

Unless you're a fanatic completist who needs everything released by the Stones, if you have the 2002 hybrid SACDs and a SACD player to play the SACD layer, you don't need the HDtracks downloads.

Wait for Pono

I have several of these. They are quite easily available from the usual suspects of download servers. I can filemail those I have if you drop me a line.

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crholmstrom

Wait for Pono

Why ?

There are at the moment at least 8 online-shops for HD-music:

HDtracks, Linn Records, Qobuz, Highresaudio, 2L, Blue Coast Records, Channel Classics Records, e-Onkyo (japanese).

There are at the moment also two 192kHz/24bit capable portable HD-Player: the Astell&Kern 120 and the FIIO X3. The A&K120 can also play DSD-files.

And how can Neil Young ensure the highest sound quality? Has he copies of the original Stones-Studio-Tapes or uses he the Universal-Remasters from 2009?

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kowalski

Unless you're a fanatic completist who needs everything released by the Stones, if you have the 2002 hybrid SACDs and a SACD player to play the SACD layer, you don't need the HDtracks downloads.

Yes - and it seems that GRRR! and Some Girls are the only HD-versions of the Stones-albums on HDtracks beyond the ABKCO-years at the moment.

And the SACDs, GRRR!, Exile on Blu-ray Audio as well as the few albums on e-Onkyo seems to be the only available HD-sources at the moment beside HDtracks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-15 22:35 by Irix.

I would love to try playing one of these albums through my home stereo. I have vintage components (preamplifier, amplifier and CD player), though, that can be fickle.

I could try burning these files to a CD and then playing the CD through my mid-1980s McIntosh MCD-7007 CD player. Or I could try hooking up my laptop to my preamplifier and play the HD tracks through my laptop. I have a McIntosh C-33 preamplifier and a McIntosh MC-2300 amplifier. The preamplifier is from the early 1980s and the amplifier was made about a decade before that. Both components were made before anything digital was commercially available for a home stereo (at least not widespread availability). Luckily, Musical Fidelity makes a gizmo that hooks up between a laptop and a receiver/preamplifier that supposedly improves the sound.

But I think I will try that CD route.

BTW, Irix, thank you for all of the assistance and information you posted earlier.

You were very helpful!

Milkyway, beware that you can't burn the HDtracks files on a CD. These files can only be played from a computer. If you want to listen to them through your hi fi system, you'll need a DAC to send the HD files from a computer to the stereo amplifier.

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Irix

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kowalski

Unless you're a fanatic completist who needs everything released by the Stones, if you have the 2002 hybrid SACDs and a SACD player to play the SACD layer, you don't need the HDtracks downloads.

Yes - and it seems that there are no HD versions of the Stones-albums on HDtracks beyond the abkco-years. The SACDs, GRRR! and Exile on Blu-ray Audio seems to be the only HD-versions from the years 1971-2013.

HD versions from the years 1971-1986 are available on Onkyo site. They're made from the 2011 DSD remasters but are restricted to Japan.

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kowalski

HD versions from the years 1971-1986 are available on Onkyo site. They're made from the 2011 DSD remasters but are restricted to Japan.

Thanks for the hint.

As far as I can see it, on e-Onkyo are at the moment only 8 albums available: Goats Head Soup, Tattoo You, Love You Live, GRRR!, Let It Bleed, Exile on Main Street, Beggars Banquet and Sticky Fingers.

HDtracks do not sell officially outside the US at the moment. So it's the best to use it with a free anonymous https-proxy-server from the US.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-16 11:40 by Irix.

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kowalski
Milkyway, beware that you can't burn the HDtracks files on a CD. These files can only be played from a computer. If you want to listen to them through your hi fi system, you'll need a DAC to send the HD files from a computer to the stereo amplifier.

Do you mean you can't burn them at all, or that the extra 'fidelity' is lost in the transfer?

I cannot hear any difference in SACD even with my 800 Shure headphones. Can anyone give me an example of some affordable amplifiers or SACD players with which I can hear the difference? I have the ABKCO cds and the flat transfer 1971 albums on Japanese SACDs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 05:54 by donvis.

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treaclefingers

Quote
kowalski
Milkyway, beware that you can't burn the HDtracks files on a CD. These files can only be played from a computer. If you want to listen to them through your hi fi system, you'll need a DAC to send the HD files from a computer to the stereo amplifier.

Do you mean you can't burn them at all, or that the extra 'fidelity' is lost in the transfer?

treaclefingers san,

You don't have to burn on a CD.
Procedures are outlined below.

1)download -> PC -> Software -> DAC -> amplifier

2)download -> NAS(Network Attached Storage) -> Network Player -> amplifier

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Toru A

Quote
treaclefingers

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kowalski
Milkyway, beware that you can't burn the HDtracks files on a CD. These files can only be played from a computer. If you want to listen to them through your hi fi system, you'll need a DAC to send the HD files from a computer to the stereo amplifier.

Do you mean you can't burn them at all, or that the extra 'fidelity' is lost in the transfer?

treaclefingers san,

You don't have to burn on a CD.
Procedures are outlined below.

1)download -> PC -> Software -> DAC -> amplifier

2)download -> NAS(Network Attached Storage) -> Network Player -> amplifier

Thanks Toru san.

I didn't mean that for myself, I was just curious from a point of clarification. I believe that you can burn to CD, but just lose the 'HD' quality of the file, but I may be wrong here.

I have an excellent PC setup so for my use no problem. I guess the portability of same may be an issue, ie for the car, unless your car's system can play high def files?

HD files are too big to be burned on a single CD plus your CD player won't read high res files.

But you still can downsample the HD files thanks to a dedicated software and then burn them on a CD... (Though it may be easier to buy the regular CD version)

Quote
MILKYWAY
I stumbled across the site linked below:

Rolling Stones HD tracks

Also, if one has downloaded an album through this site, which format (aiff, alac, wav, flac) was downloaded? All of these different formats confuse me.

I recommend flac format which is lighter than wav format.(I don't have Apple computer)
If you have a software like dBpoweramp CD Ripper, you can change flac file to wav format very easily after download.
You can also encode your CD to 16bit, 24bit, 32bit, 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 96KHz or 192KHz by yourself.

My huge concern that still holds me up from buying a DAC and the umpteenth edition of the stones catalog is how to preserve these damn HD files.

I mean, hard disks break and files degenerate (with this regard there are many discussions among photographers of the digital age).

To set up a back up system etc ends up being an expensive pain in the arse.

With mp3s most of the time you can rely on the sellers "clouds".

If there is one advantage of the old vinyl prints is that they wear out only after extended overuse.

Sometimes CDs even rot!

C

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Toru A

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MILKYWAY
I stumbled across the site linked below:

Rolling Stones HD tracks

Also, if one has downloaded an album through this site, which format (aiff, alac, wav, flac) was downloaded? All of these different formats confuse me.

I recommend flac format which is lighter than wav format.(I don't have Apple computer)
If you have a software like dBpoweramp CD Ripper, you can change flac file to wav format very easily after download.
You can also encode your CD to 16bit, 24bit, 32bit, 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 96KHz or 192KHz by yourself.

For a CD to be able to play on audio CD players,it has to be burned as an AUDIO CD which is limited to 16 bits / 44.1 KHz ! That's it. That is all that the Compact Disc Digital Audio standard (or specification) allows for.

It would make very little sense to burn a DATA CD of 48 KHz , 96 KHz , or 192 KHz (24 bit or 32 bit) High Resolution audio files because,you would not be able to play the CD on any CD player outside of MAYBE a computer.

If you are going to make a DATA disc of these files,you are much better off using a DVD disc or a Blu-ray Disc because of the higher storage capacity !!

I am also pretty certain that it is possible to make the High Resolution 24 bit audio files into DVD - Audio discs and Blu-ray Audio Discs which can be played back on certain audio equipment outside of computers.

Here are some articles on Digital Audio Compact Discs :

* [www.hometheater.com] * +

* [en.wikipedia.org] * +

* [www.wizbit.net] * +

* [www.ce.org] *

-

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Winning Ugly VXII

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Toru A

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MILKYWAY
I stumbled across the site linked below:

Rolling Stones HD tracks

Also, if one has downloaded an album through this site, which format (aiff, alac, wav, flac) was downloaded? All of these different formats confuse me.

I recommend flac format which is lighter than wav format.(I don't have Apple computer)
If you have a software like dBpoweramp CD Ripper, you can change flac file to wav format very easily after download.
You can also encode your CD to 16bit, 24bit, 32bit, 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 96KHz or 192KHz by yourself.

For a CD to be able to play on audio CD players,it has to be burned as an AUDIO CD which is limited to 16 bits / 44.1 KHz ! That's it. That is all that the Compact Disc Digital Audio standard (or specification) allows for.

It would make very little sense to burn a DATA CD of 48 KHz , 96 KHz , or 192 KHz (24 bit or 32 bit) High Resolution audio files because,you would not be able to play the CD on any CD player outside of MAYBE a computer.

If you are going to make a DATA disc of these files,you are much better off using a DVD disc or a Blu-ray Disc because of the higher storage capacity !!

I am also pretty certain that it is possible to make the High Resolution 24 bit audio files into DVD - Audio discs and Blu-ray Audio Discs which can be played back on certain audio equipment outside of computers.

Here are some articles on Digital Audio Compact Discs :

* [www.hometheater.com] * +

* [en.wikipedia.org] * +

* [www.wizbit.net] * +

* [www.ce.org] *

-

I guess now we're getting to the point where making our own dvd audio or blu ray audio becomes plausible, just at the same time that you could probably just play them off a usb drive.

Things are changing faster than the time it takes for me to get up off the couch and turn the record over!

Sorry for a tangential post.

As far as file music is concerned, DSD download or DSD conversion are so hot in Japan. Acoustic Sounds - Super Hirez

Recently 2.8224MHz of DSD files (44.1kHz times 64) can be played back on many DACs and CD players.
(For CD playing, once I have to burn DSD files on a DVD disk though.)

As I have a DSD file playable CD player (Accuphase DP-550), I am now earnest about burning DSD files on a DVD disk.



steps are like this:
existing CD (e.g. Stripped/Stones) -> convert to 24bit/96kHz wav file (sometimes 32bit/192kHz) using dBpoweramp
-> convert to DSD file using a free software like Korg AudioGate -> create DSD files on DVD

It's very fun to create DSD disks close to SACD quality with only 20yen or 30yen.


treaclefingers san,

Some music fans are now buckling down to convert Vinyl disks, cassette tapes or open-reel tapes to DSD files.
Since the rock music in 60's and 70's is cultural heritage, it's nice to leave them for posterity.
We should put them in the time capsule with scanned cover art.


KORG AudioGate

Quote
Toru A
Sorry for a tangential post.

As far as file music is concerned, DSD download or DSD conversion are so hot in Japan. Acoustic Sounds - Super Hirez

Recently 2.8224MHz of DSD files (44.1kHz times 64) can be played back on many DACs and CD players.
(For CD playing, once I have to burn DSD files on a DVD disk though.)

As I have a DSD file playable CD player (Accuphase DP-550), I am now earnest about burning DSD files on a DVD disk.



steps are like this:
existing CD (e.g. Stripped/Stones) -> convert to 24bit/96kHz wav file (sometimes 32bit/192kHz) using dBpoweramp
-> convert to DSD file using a free software like Korg AudioGate -> create DSD files on DVD

It's very fun to create DSD disks close to SACD quality with only 20yen or 30yen.


treaclefingers san,

Some music fans are now buckling down to convert Vinyl disks, cassette tapes or open-reel tapes to DSD files.
Since the rock music in 60's and 70's is cultural heritage, it's nice to leave them for posterity.
We should put them in the time capsule with scanned cover art.


KORG AudioGate

My vinyl's are still sealed so you can just add them into the time capsule without having to do any of the DSD conversions!

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treaclefingers

My vinyl's are still sealed so you can just add them into the time capsule without having to do any of the DSD conversions!

okey-dokey!
Please keep a lookout for them because sometimes vinyls get a white tarnish.