No, not Old Gods Almost Dead.

After spending the better part of the last day and a half trying unsuccessfully to win Giants Stadium tickets from Q104.3 and occasionally screaming "GODDAMNIT!" at getting busy signal after busy signal, my thoughts have turned to religion on this fine Sunday morning.

My question - aside from Patti (and Keith's early choir gigs), I've never read about any special religious devotion or affinity on the part of the band members or their families. I know Mick wore a cross on the '69 tour, but that could have had something more to do with the fashion of the time. Keith seems to worship at the altar of music and likes to partake of the herbal sacrament with his Rasta fiends. Aside from that . . . nothing.

Did the guys have standard Church Of England upbringings?

Is Charlie a Member Of The Tribe? I thought I'd read that somewhere.

Oh wait . . . wasn't Mick sniffing around Kaballah for a bit a few years ago? Did Bianca make him convert to Catholicism before they got married?

I remember reading in a book (The Stones by Phillip Norman I think) that one of Keith's wives got interested in some religion when they were married. The book read "...Which infuriated her atheist husband". Not sure about the book though.

JumpingKentFlash

Mick is Church of England (nominally) anyway. he took 2 weeks of Catholic instruction prior to his marriage to Bianca but only as a way of understanding the religion, not as part of any conversion. Jerry hall was into all that Kabbalah stuff. But I think thats relatively recent.

Charlie' s mother was Jewish, as I understand it. Which, as far as I understand, technically makes him Jewish as I've read that they take their faith from the mother's side.

Not sure about Charlie, but I assume the rest of the band were nominally Anglican, as Ive never read anything to the contrary. The emphasis being on 'nominally' because theyve never really expressed any significant religious leanings.

far as i know Mick did that Catholic Instruction deal, not a conversion, before marrying Bianca.
Charlie has indeed said a couple of times that he's Jewish.
Ronnie wears a cross; Keith of course has worn all kinds of symbols ...


- 1967 by Michael Cooper

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember reading in a book (The Stones by
> Phillip Norman I think) that one of Keith's wives
> got interested in some religion when they were
> married. The book read "...Which infuriated her
> atheist husband". Not sure about the book though.

one of his wives? well..its hardly Anita, lets face it!

Patti has been pretty religious for decades. She comes from a strict Lutheran family. His sister Marsha recently released a CD and book called "My soul is a witness", which features Keith.

If I remember it right, it took place in the late seventies. That rules out Phillip Norman doesn't it?

JumpingKentFlash

maybe someone here knows the name and significance of the round-cross-lookin symbol
that so many of the band & entourage have worn over the decades?
Keith seems to wear it pretty steadily - hope it's legible enough in this shot


- 2005, by Steven Klein



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-14 11:50 by with sssoul.

>> If I remember it right, it took place in the late seventies.
That rules out Phillip Norman doesn't it? <<

smile: huh?? yeah, anyone who claims Keith was married in the late 70s
should certainly be ruled out. :E

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I remember it right, it took place in the late
> seventies. That rules out Phillip Norman doesn't
> it?


No. Philip Normans book came out in 1984 or so. Keith only met Patti in 1979 or so and they got married on his 40th birthday four years later

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maybe someone here knows the name and significance
> of the round-cross-lookin symbol
> that so many of the band & entourage have worn
> over the decades?
> Keith seems to wear it pretty steadily - hope it's
> legible enough in this shot


Well the fact that it's round definently makes it European. I would say that it's some kind of old Protestant christian cross.

JumpingKentFlash

>> as I've read that they take their faith from the mother's side. <<

well ... "ethnic identity" would be a more accurate than "faith",
but yeah: Orthodox Jewish law traces it through the maternal line.

It's an Ethiopian cross that Keith wears.

>> the fact that it's round definently makes it European <<

>> It's an Ethiopian cross that Keith wears. <<

:E go on, people - i am fascinated!
does this symbol have a name?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-09-24 17:32 by with sssoul.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> care to elaborate on that? i don't know (which is
> why i'm asking) but
> does being rounded mean it couldn't be (for
> example) Rastafarian?


It just looks like it's European. It's a cross no doubt. That makes it christian. The rounding is, as you probably know, not "popular" in in christianity these days. The last time the roundings on crosses were popular was a couple of 100 years ago. That's why I wrote that. I have no idea if i could be Rastafarian too.

JumpingKentFlash

It's an orthodox Ethiopian cross (Coptic?) and is very common as a pendant but I don't know if it has a specific name.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-09-24 17:37 by Beast.

Here's some info on it:

The Ethiopian Cross is one of the sacred symbols used among African peoples. It traces its origin to the Egyptian ankh. The Christian church subsequently adopted the cross. According to some cultural historians, the cross, irrespective of what part of the world it is found in, has practically the same meaning—it symbolizes the Life to Come.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

[img.photobucket.com] 1967hash.jpg
> - 1967 by Michael Cooper


I adore that photo! I have it as my wallpaper at work. I love looking at the way he put all those different things together, so natural when he wears it, but ridiculous on someone else. He's got a scarf around his neck, then a necklace, than another necklace, then that sheepskin thing. Who does he make that look so cool. Brian dressed sort of like that, but it seemed more out of place on him, like he was trying, ya know. Back then, IMO Keith was a walking piece of art.

>> He's got a scarf around his neck, then a necklace, then another necklace, then that sheepskin thing. <<

not to mention the Star of David on his belt ...

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> the fact that it's round definently makes it
> European <<
>
> >> It's an Ethiopian cross that Keith wears. <<
>
> :E go on, people - i am fascinated!
> does this symbol have a name?


How about "Dave"..... ?

I find it very interesting that Charlie is jewish. I had guessed it. He always looked very jewish to me.

I browsed in Amazon.com through Adam Clayson's biography of Charlie, and he quotes him saying: "I used to play in jewish weddings, and I didn't know what the hell was going on, since I'm not jewish". So it seems he's not, actually.

There are religious references in more than a few of their songs, so I'd imagine at least the band's lyricists have more than a passing interest in religion.

>> the band's lyricists have more than a passing interest in religion. <<

hm. to me religion and faith are two different things.
what i hear in their music is faith, a lot more than religious references -
not that that precludes an interest in religion, of course (sorry, i'm babbling again)

>> "I used to play in Jewish weddings, and I didn't know what the hell was going on, since I'm not Jewish".
So it seems he's not, actually. <<

my theory (until further notice) is that Charlie's mother or maternal grandmother was Jewish,
but that it wasn't part of his upbringing; if that's right, it would explain the apparent contradiction in the various quotes.
i know a lot of people who are "Jewish on a technicality", as it were, without being at all into Jewish traditions, practices, beliefs, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-09-24 20:10 by with sssoul.

Keith and Anita dabbled in the occult, her more than him. According to Tony Sanchez's book, Anita wanted some kind of occult wedding ceremony. And there was the trip to see Rio Banana way back when...

[p207.ezboard.com]

"According to Tony Sanchez's book"

Bingo.

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:

"...Which infuriated her
> atheist husband". Not sure about the book though.

if so, i knew he and i were kindred spirits.

i asked mick the question about religion when he did the live AOL chat in what, '01 or '02 when he was promoting goddess in the doorway (aka as "dogshit in the doorway" by keith - that just makes me laugh).

i asked mick if he was religious because of "god gave me everything" - he said something beautiful about how he was moved by a drop of mysticism and a wine glass full of spirituality.

Quote
Gazza
Charlie' s mother was Jewish, as I understand it. Which, as far as I understand, technically makes him Jewish as I've read that they take their faith from the mother's side.

A friend of mine guided Charlie in Jerusalem last week and the subject came up. His granddaughter said that she took a trivia test on the web and got a bad point answering that Charlie was not Jewish. Charlie said that he has nothing to do with Judaism beside the fact that he grew up around Jews and loves Gefilte Fish.

Quote
z

Quote
Gazza
Charlie' s mother was Jewish, as I understand it. Which, as far as I understand, technically makes him Jewish as I've read that they take their faith from the mother's side.

A friend of mine guided Charlie in Jerusalem last week and the subject came up. His granddaughter said that she took a trivia test on the web and got a bad point answering that Charlie was not Jewish. Charlie said that he has nothing to do with Judaism beside the fact that he grew up around Jews and loves Gefilte Fish.

Yeah but I think that somewhere he himself made some point that COULD HAVE pointed to the fact his mother had Jewish roots - or so someone said. Not that it is of any matter for me, but I think I recall seeing that somewhere... Quite entertaining this is as the CW's Jewish roots is so vague, yet matters to some, that I can only find another example of the same scenario... about one (fieldmarshal) Erich Von Manstein

Quote
Miss U.
Keith and Anita dabbled in the occult, her more than him. According to Tony Sanchez's book, Anita wanted some kind of occult wedding ceremony. And there was the trip to see Rio Banana way back when...

I remember reading this, too. I think Anita persuaded Keith to meet with Kenneth Anger as a "consultant" for some kind of 'black magic' wedding. Keith said it "scared the shit" out of him, and they never went back..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-10 17:15 by TheBadRabbit.

Mick uses a lot of Christian imagery in his songs..most recently in Blind Leading the Blind, where he seems to be asking someone who believes to give him some spirituality, like Just Wanna See His Face...
For all his dabbling in Eastern religions, Mick seems to be a realist who is drawn to spirituality in some way, but can't quite commit.
That's a lot of unfounded guessing on my part, but I get the sense that he's fascinated by religion. When he was divorcing Bianca, he was vitriolic toward the Catholics ..but that might have been Mick angry at the world and his Catholic wedding that ended.
LWren's memorial was Christian, with very specific bible scripture chosen by either him or her brother, but his children, Kari's and Jade, read those passages.
Maybe Mick is a frustrated believer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-10 17:17 by stupidguy2.