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Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: July 14, 2013 04:12

Brian's contributions to the Let It Bleed album are known to most: autoharp on You Got The Silver and 'percussion' of some description on Midnight Rambler. Perhaps not quite so well known is the fact that he was also partially present during the recording of You Can't Always Get What You Want. What I have often been curious to know, is whether Brian could have had any involvement or presence during the recording of other tracks on the album in question. Does anyone have any knowledge or theories?

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 04:23

It is certain that he was present, but also likely that he contributed Moroccan drums to early versions of Gimme Shelter.

Jagger has said himself Brian was present during initial recordings of the track, but there's also photos by Ethan Russell which most likely date from 15th March 1969 recording session for YCAGWYW choir overdub - early takes of Gimme Shelter...












Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-14 04:24 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 04:33

He is shown with Maton guitar and harmonica during recording sessions circa April/May 1969. What these tracks could be is of course open to speculation, but in some photos from what appear to be the same session as the Brian/Maton guitar session, Keith is shown with a capo on 7th fret of his Gibson les paul custom which suggests Midnight Rambler... Just speculation though.

Of course, they could have been playing anything or nothing much during the time the photos were taken.









All photos by Eric Hayes.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-14 04:40 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: July 14, 2013 05:06

Great pictures!

The picture from the You Can't Always Get What You Want session was what I had in mind when I first had the thought for this thread, actually!

Brian contributing Moroccan drums to an early version(s) of Gimme Shelter is certainly a new one to me.

I have also often wondered about his involvement with Honky Tonk Woman. I have read that he participated in early renditions and also that he originally played on the released single, but his guitar was wiped and Taylor's was then overdubbed on.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Jayce ()
Date: July 14, 2013 07:59

There is no info stating that Brian plays harmonica on the album, yet these photos show him playing one. Does anyone have any info about harmonica contribution?

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Marhsall ()
Date: July 14, 2013 10:09

Great Pics!

How DO you post pics btw???

I ran across ALOT I've NEVER seen, and wanting to share.

They're saved on my iPad & I'm still trying to figure everything out on it.

Many thanks in advance!

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: rootsman ()
Date: July 14, 2013 12:45

I don´t think any more than the above is known about Brian´s involvement, but the following tracks were recorded before he quit:

You Can´t Always Get What You Want
You Got The Silver
Gimmie Shelter
Midnight Rambler
Let It Bleed
And I Was A Country Boy (instrumental)
Downtown Susie
Love In Vain
Sister Morphine
Monkey Man
Honky Tonk Women

Gimmie Shelter and Honky Tonk Women were overdubbed/re-worked later - maybe some of the others were as well.

Oh, and thanks for posting the great pics, HM!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-14 12:47 by rootsman.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: July 14, 2013 12:57

Obviously he was hardly present for the album, as his lack of credits on Let It Bleed would suggest, and if he was present, he was hardly "there". Otherwise, why would the band change guitarists before the album was even finished being recorded? When they started the album, Brian Jones was the guitarist and when they finished Mick Taylor was the guitarist. That says all there needs to be said about his "presence" on the album.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: ash ()
Date: July 14, 2013 13:00

Without studio documentation or access to the original multitrack tapes it's gonna be hard to establish what Brian contributed 1968 to 69 beyond what we already know. Only contemporary reports are likely to be accurate to any degree.
There must have been a long build up to BJ's departure - band members leaving an established band like that is not taken lightly. Bad PR for one thing. I assume that MJ and KR had been considering this for many months and Brian's absences,lack of contribution or the others willingness to wipe/ignore/play down his contribution (not necessarily out of malice but for the song) or think it unsuitable all played a part. Not to mention the personal relationship angle too.
If any of you have been unfortunate enough as i have to hear the entire month of January 1969 beatles rehearsals/recordings it is clear that the band are completely messed up both as a playing unit and as friends and this didn't just suddenly happen. They still made 2 albums before calling it a day.
I get the impression that Brian became almost like a visitor to sessions and the Glimmers just got fed up accommodating a ghost member. Others have reported that they were pretty rude and dismissive to him both to his face and behind his back. I can imagine they often thought "oh you're here are you" or similar. Although Keith may have been wasted most of the time he came in with songs and drive and the relationship was there with Mick.
With the band wanting to tour etc. this wasn't good enough and a drag in the studio which is the only place they all met up as a group since the end of the april 1967 european tour apart from for publicity shots.
As far as Let It Bleed goes, Brian also contributed lying on the floor reading a botany magazine to YCAGWYW and apparently having his guitar wiped from HTW. I suspect (admittedly without much evidence) that Keith probably replaced BJ's guitar parts if there were any. If they were short of a track on a tape for an overdub you can bet BJ's would be the first to go. Didn't Glyn Johns or someone say they wouldn't turn his channel up on the board while recording ? This may have happened once or twice or many times. I haven't watched R'R Circus for a while but am i correct in thinking that Brian is basically inaudible apart from his out of tune slide on No Expectations ?

I wish there were more leaks of this era's multitracks like the beach boys sea of tunes or beatles multis but there's little chance of that unless one of us gets a job at abkco. i'd love to see a full inventory of tapes held by abkco.
The Jones era remains my favourite although that run of albums from beggars to exile is astonishing and features little evidence of Mr Jones.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: July 14, 2013 13:15

Quote
ash
Without studio documentation or access to the original multitrack tapes it's gonna be hard to establish what Brian contributed 1968 to 69 beyond what we already know. Only contemporary reports are likely to be accurate to any degree.
There must have been a long build up to BJ's departure - band members leaving an established band like that is not taken lightly. Bad PR for one thing. I assume that MJ and KR had been considering this for many months and Brian's absences,lack of contribution or the others willingness to wipe/ignore/play down his contribution (not necessarily out of malice but for the song) or think it unsuitable all played a part. Not to mention the personal relationship angle too.
If any of you have been unfortunate enough as i have to hear the entire month of January 1969 beatles rehearsals/recordings it is clear that the band are completely messed up both as a playing unit and as friends and this didn't just suddenly happen. They still made 2 albums before calling it a day.

They fired Brian because he became unreliable, and his contributions in the studio became unremarkable. But, this happened during their non-touring period. If they had still been touring through this period and he had to have been relied upon to show up for gigs and failed to appear on a regular basis or was too out of it to play live as he was too out of it to be effective in the studio, then he might have been fired sooner. The decision to replace him came about when it did because they were returning to the concert stage, and after 2 years off the concert circuit and 3 years off the U.S. concert circuit, they were making a comeback of sorts, and they needed to be a tight unit with no weak links, and also Brian's repeated drug busts would have presented a roadblock with visa problems. It wasn't an easy decision for the band to make, and personal relationships difficulties aside, they would rather not have replaced him unless they absolutely had to. The Stones didn't need to be friends with one another. Look at Bill Wyman. Were Jagger and Richards friends with him? They were a working unit, and if the unit wasn't working, then a part of the unit had to be replaced to restore the unit to working order.

And as for the Get Back sessions of The Beatles in January 1969 not sounding up to snuff, that was Paul's fault. The decision for scheduling was left to him, and he elected to have the film crew in on a day schedule, 9-to-5, when The Beatles were night owls. Plus they were recording in the chilly barn-like atmosphere of Twickenham film studios, and the band was made self-conscious by the continual presence of a film crew. As Lennon said, "You couldn't make music at ten in the morning, and there was this film crew watching you every second."

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 13:35

I have a photo album on my Brian Jones Experience facebook page of Let It Bleed sessions up to circa May 1969...

[www.facebook.com]

Here's the blurb I wrote for it...

Photographs from the November 1968 - May 1969 Let It Bleed recording sessions

Some of these photos have been re-posted on Brian Jones Friends and Fans page and some doubts have been raised about certain photos....

The photos by Ethan Russell featuring Brian wearing jumper and checked trousers most likely date from March 1969, probably the 15th on to 16th. On this day the choir was overdubbed on to YCAGWYW and the band also began recording early versions of Gimme Shelter. The photos of Mick adding percussion and Keith playing Maton guitar date from this session.

The photos by Eric Hayes covers two recording sessions from circa April/May 1969. One showing Brian with white t-shirt holding harmonica and another showing Brian wearing white, lacey shirt sitting playing the guitar and sitting in control room. Of the latter session Eric can recall a drunk and/or stoned Brian asking him to play notes on a piano so that he could tune his guitar to the notes, but that Brian struggled to tune his guitar. He also recalls that the band mostly ignored Brian during the session.

The Eric Hayes photos are, for the time being, the last known photos of Brian in the studio with The Rolling Stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-14 13:37 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 13:57

Quote
stonehearted
Obviously he was hardly present for the album, as his lack of credits on Let It Bleed would suggest, and if he was present, he was hardly "there".

The messy, sad and pathetic picture that has been painted for us by many of the people involved in these sessions makes me think that even when he was there his contributions were nothing worth bothering about.

The autoharp and percussion contributions on Let It Bleed are a joke compared even to Beggars Banquet sessions where he was still able to add beautiful and creative contributions to tracks such as No Expectations, Jigsaw Puzzle and Street Fighting Man.

By the way, if people haven't read it already, I recommend Sean Egan's book, The Making Of Let It Bleed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-14 13:59 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: ash ()
Date: July 14, 2013 14:27

Quote
stonehearted

And as for the Get Back sessions of The Beatles in January 1969 not sounding up to snuff, that was Paul's fault. The decision for scheduling was left to him, and he elected to have the film crew in on a day schedule, 9-to-5, when The Beatles were night owls. Plus they were recording in the chilly barn-like atmosphere of Twickenham film studios, and the band was made self-conscious by the continual presence of a film crew. As Lennon said, "You couldn't make music at ten in the morning, and there was this film crew watching you every second."[/quote


I think the times may have been down more to union rules than Paul (could be wrong though). Interestingly a listen to the whole month (don't do it !) reveals multiple problems mostly (but not entirely) down to John in my opinion.I wont go on coz i don't want to derail the thread too much.

I think His Majesty is close with BJ's contributions being poor, inappropriate or not worth bothering with which is very sad because BJ was clearly a major talent at one time. His personal problems spilled over into the band to such a degree that he had to go.
Entering the realms of speculation, if we had access to session tapes i reckon we'd hear BJ in the background on a number of warm-ups/early takes and find him dropping out or replaced on the master. It's also quite possible that he simply didn't attend many sessions for one reason or another and his credits reflect this. We'd have missed him on any of the previous albums but Let It Bleed is a classic and Brian basically is no part of it.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 14:35

In addition to his bass playing we get Bill contributing autoharp and vibraphone on Let It Bleed! Go Bill! cool smiley

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: WindyHorses ()
Date: July 14, 2013 17:22

Brian looks so tiny in those photos, like a very haggard child.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: July 14, 2013 19:17

At what point was Ry Cooder brought into the sessions? Were he and Brian ever there at the same time?

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 19:52

Quote
71Tele
At what point was Ry Cooder brought into the sessions? Were he and Brian ever there at the same time?

Circa March/April 1969.

Brian is shown with Ry at Redlands during rehearsal/jam/recording session at Redlands during spring 1969.

Photo album on my Brian Jones Experience Facebook page.

Redlands, West Wittering, West Sussex, England - Spring 1969

[www.facebook.com]

Blurb I wrote for this photo album...

All photos by Michael Cooper

These photos are of a rehearsal/recording at Keith's home in spring of 1969. They can be roughly dated to around April 1969 due the presence of both Ry Cooder and Jack Nitzsche. Interesting that Brian, Keith and Ry played together.

The 'Jamming With Edward' recordings and Ry's other contributions to stones tracks happened around this time at Olympic Studios.

...

Ry can be seen playing the same sonic blue Fender Stratocaster he used at Redlands in this video from 1977...

Ry Cooder and The Chicken Skin Band - At The Dark End Of The Street:






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-14 19:59 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: jazzbass ()
Date: July 14, 2013 20:21

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
stonehearted
By the way, if people haven't read it already, I recommend Sean Egan's book, The Making Of Let It Bleed.

I'm looking to see if it is available in digital format. I also wish The Complete Recording Sessions book was available digitally. Would be a nice resource to refer to quickly via I-Pad etc.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: July 14, 2013 20:44

Quote
His Majesty

Ry can be seen playing the same sonic blue Fender Stratocaster he used at Redlands in this video from 1977...

Would that be the same Telecaster that Brian was using in the Jumpin' Jack Flash promo?

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 20:52

Quote
Big Al
Quote
His Majesty

Ry can be seen playing the same sonic blue Fender Stratocaster he used at Redlands in this video from 1977...

Would that be the same Telecaster that Brian was using in the Jumpin' Jack Flash promo?

Re read my sentence. grinning smiley

smileys with beer

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: jazzbass ()
Date: July 14, 2013 20:57

Quote
Big Al
Quote
His Majesty

Ry can be seen playing the same sonic blue Fender Stratocaster he used at Redlands in this video from 1977...

Would that be the same Telecaster that Brian was using in the Jumpin' Jack Flash promo?

Brian is playing a white Tele, R is playing a blue Strat.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 21:04

Quote
jazzbass

Brian is playing a white Tele, R is playing a blue Strat.

Seems the tele was sonic blue though.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: jazzbass ()
Date: July 14, 2013 21:12

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
jazzbass

Brian is playing a white Tele, R is playing a blue Strat.

Seems the tele was sonic blue though.

Not easy to tell from this pic.


Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: July 14, 2013 21:20

That seems to be the only photo where the guitar looks white. smiling smiley

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: July 14, 2013 21:31

I believe the Keith quote was, "Brian had drank, doped and f#cked himself beyond usefulness" I am also fairly certain when he did or would show up, they turned him down, and just let him play, much like placating a child.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: July 14, 2013 21:46

It's also worth noting that the Through The Past Darkly (Big Hits Vol. 2) photo-shoot took place in the early months of 1969. St. Katherine's Dock, London.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: rootsman ()
Date: July 14, 2013 22:59

Quote
Big Al
It's also worth noting that the Through The Past Darkly (Big Hits Vol. 2) photo-shoot took place in the early months of 1969. St. Katherine's Dock, London.

May 21, IIRC...
Last group photo session with Brian.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: July 15, 2013 03:02

Quote
rootsman

May 21, IIRC...
Last group photo session with Brian.[/quote

And they were some of the most terrific Brian Jones-era photo's, too. I'm guessing the photograph of Brian Jones sat cross-legged blowing a balloon are from the session as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-15 03:03 by Big Al.

Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: July 15, 2013 17:31

Quote
rootsman
Quote
Big Al
It's also worth noting that the Through The Past Darkly (Big Hits Vol. 2) photo-shoot took place in the early months of 1969. St. Katherine's Dock, London.

May 21, IIRC...
Last group photo session with Brian.

Is this the last shot with Brian?


Re: Brian Jones And Let It Bleed
Posted by: rootsman ()
Date: July 15, 2013 17:48

Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
rootsman
Quote
Big Al
It's also worth noting that the Through The Past Darkly (Big Hits Vol. 2) photo-shoot took place in the early months of 1969. St. Katherine's Dock, London.

May 21, IIRC...
Last group photo session with Brian.

Is this the last shot with Brian?


Same occasion for sure!

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