Gotta be Carol...Keith does Chuck better than Chuck.

Little Queenie is arguably one of the Stones best covers of a Chuck Berry tune on record...

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jamesfdouglas

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StonesTod

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jpasc95
yes the whole album is quite good but the problem is that most solos are overdubbed which is a small minus yet.

no, they aren't. the extensive research done by stones scholars on this subject years ago yielded that they are some vocal overdubs on the album, but that's about it....

Some vocal overdubs? I'd say nearly the entire album. You can still clearly hear the bleed from Mick's original voice on many of the tracks (same with Love You Live but worse here, and more songs). Likely picked up from other microphones onstage. I mean on Honky Tonk Women the bleed is so bad you can hear the original second verse being sung (and not that stupid one about gay sailors in Paris).

As a singer, I find this unforgivable if you're peddling something as a 'live' album. Nothing has changed my mind over this for decades. Live is live, damn it.

The one song on Ya-Yas which doesn't seem to be vocally tampered with is Midnight Rambler.

This is a first to me. Yes, 7 out of 10 have new lead vocals, and several have new Richards back-up vocals, but I have never heard any of the original vocals lingering in the back as ghost vocal. Your example of HTW is the worst you could give -the sailor verse is the original verse.

About guitar overdubs -10 years or so on this board yielded one certified guitar overdub, and one suspicious one. The certified one is on the turn-around at the start of Keith's first Little Queenie solo where you hear a third guitar right in the middle, on just two bars. The suspicious one is Taylor's rythm guitar on Carol. It's different than he ever did live, and different to the untempered version of this track found as outtake.

Mathijs

Midnight Rambler. The simple riffs of Keith are to me his best touch forever.

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phd
Midnight Rambler. The simple riffs of Keith are to me his best touch forever.

Agreed. Midnight Rambler is, to me, the obvious highlight of the album. Just hearing the girls screaming in the middle section is proof alone for me how intense it must have been at that show. What a great album! Wish they would release some of the other Garden shows...mistakes and all.

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TornAndFried

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phd
Midnight Rambler. The simple riffs of Keith are to me his best touch forever.

Agreed. Midnight Rambler is, to me, the obvious highlight of the album. Just hearing the girls screaming in the middle section is proof alone for me how intense it must have been at that show. What a great album! Wish they would release some of the other Garden shows...mistakes and all.

funnily enough, the overdubs are Keith/Mick being way too picky...if you listen to the 2 shows that are available, there are very little "mistakes"...if any at all. Jagger was too fussy with his vocals and that's why there are vocal overdubs on most of the songs.

....never get tired of Stray Cat Blues.

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Mathijs

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jamesfdouglas

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StonesTod

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jpasc95
yes the whole album is quite good but the problem is that most solos are overdubbed which is a small minus yet.

no, they aren't. the extensive research done by stones scholars on this subject years ago yielded that they are some vocal overdubs on the album, but that's about it....

Some vocal overdubs? I'd say nearly the entire album. You can still clearly hear the bleed from Mick's original voice on many of the tracks (same with Love You Live but worse here, and more songs). Likely picked up from other microphones onstage. I mean on Honky Tonk Women the bleed is so bad you can hear the original second verse being sung (and not that stupid one about gay sailors in Paris).

As a singer, I find this unforgivable if you're peddling something as a 'live' album. Nothing has changed my mind over this for decades. Live is live, damn it.

The one song on Ya-Yas which doesn't seem to be vocally tampered with is Midnight Rambler.

This is a first to me. Yes, 7 out of 10 have new lead vocals, and several have new Richards back-up vocals, but I have never heard any of the original vocals lingering in the back as ghost vocal. Your example of HTW is the worst you could give -the sailor verse is the original verse.

About guitar overdubs -10 years or so on this board yielded one certified guitar overdub, and one suspicious one. The certified one is on the turn-around at the start of Keith's first Little Queenie solo where you hear a third guitar right in the middle, on just two bars. The suspicious one is Taylor's rythm guitar on Carol. It's different than he ever did live, and different to the untempered version of this track found as outtake.

Mathijs

Matthijs ,you ( especially ) should read this about little queenie and respond please , i would really apreciate your opinion ( and keep an open mind )

[www.iorr.org]

now i think it is actually keith who dubbed in a new taylor track , at some point the guitars synchronise that much (meanwhile..etc), it gotta be the same player

as tele says i dont give a hoot about the overdubs , it is the greatest album of all time.
I walk the dog and listen to it probably once a week ( among other albums ) and learned to play from it in the seventies so i know it insides out.

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Mathijs
This is a first to me. Yes, 7 out of 10 have new lead vocals, and several have new Richards back-up vocals, but I have never heard any of the original vocals lingering in the back as ghost vocal. Your example of HTW is the worst you could give -the sailor verse is the original verse.
Mathijs

Listen closer.
And/or watch the movie Gimme Shelter.

By original lyrics, I mean the single 'Honky Tonk Women', where most of us should know the second verse of by heart by now. You may have heard it?

Here's how the second verse goes on the single...


I laid a divorcee in New York City
I had to put up some kind for a fight
The lady then she covered me with roses
She blew my nose and then she blew my mind

This is the second verse also sung also during the film Gimme Shelter, from New York where the recordings of Ya Yas are from. I really doubt Mick wrote and changed the verse on the second night at MSG, and it's a live take of that changed they used. But anyways...


If you listen closely to the vocals of Honky TOnk from Ya-Yas you can hear these words being sung underneath the overdubbed vocals, which use these lyrics for the second verse.

Strollin' on the boulevards of Paris
As naked as the day that I will die
The sailors they're so charming there in Paris
But they just don't seem to sail you off my mind

(They're also the second verse lyrics used on Love You Live. Mick went back to singing the original second verse from 1978 onward.)

Anyways, point being, put on headphones, listen to Honky Tonk on Ya-Yas. I'm right on this and you are dead wrong. It's right there.

[thepowergoats.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-06 19:10 by jamesfdouglas.

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jamesfdouglas

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Mathijs
This is a first to me. Yes, 7 out of 10 have new lead vocals, and several have new Richards back-up vocals, but I have never heard any of the original vocals lingering in the back as ghost vocal. Your example of HTW is the worst you could give -the sailor verse is the original verse.
Mathijs

Listen closer.
And/or watch the movie Gimme Shelter.

By original lyrics, I mean the single 'Honky Tonk Women', where most of us should know the second verse of by heart by now. You may have heard it?

Here's how the second verse goes on the single...


I laid a divorcee in New York City
I had to put up some kind for a fight
The lady then she covered me with roses
She blew my nose and then she blew my mind

This is the second verse also sung also during the film Gimme Shelter, from New York where the recordings of Ya Yas are from. I really doubt Mick wrote and changed the verse on the second night at MSG, and it's a live take of that changed they used. But anyways...


If you listen closely to the vocals of Honky TOnk from Ya-Yas you can hear these words being sung underneath the overdubbed vocals, which use these lyrics for the second verse.

Strollin' on the boulevards of Paris
As naked as the day that I will die
The sailors they're so charming there in Paris
But they just don't seem to sail you off my mind

(They're also the second verse lyrics used on Love You Live. Mick went back to singing the original second verse from 1978 onward.)

Anyways, point being, put on headphones, listen to Honky Tonk on Ya-Yas. I'm right on this and you are dead wrong. It's right there.

Mick was singing the "Paris" verse live as early as June 1969 (The David Frost Show). So I think it's certainly plausible that Mick may have sung different verses at different shows on the 1969 tour.

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Sleepy City
Mick was singing the "Paris" verse live as early as June 1969 (The David Frost Show). So I think it's certainly plausible that Mick may have sung different verses at different shows on the 1969 tour.

That may be true.
However...
(I sound like a broken record now...)

I just did this again myself.
Get your Ya-Ya's on your turntable, stereo, ipod, tapedeck... whatever.
Play Honky Tonk Women. (I'm using the 2002 CD).

LISTEN to the vocals.

Throughout the whole song the original vocal was not completely removed from audibility and can be heard under Mick's studio overdub. So much so, that during the second verse, you can hear the 'laid a divorcee in NYC, etc' lyrics clearly underneath.

(This problem is also ALL OVER Love You Live)

[thepowergoats.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-06 21:22 by jamesfdouglas.

Drove to LA from Nor Cal on Friday and enjoyed the "complete" Ya-Ya's along with three GS movie tracks, JJF, GS and Satisfaction. The 80 minutes went by quite nicely, once again. Love that recording!

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Eleanor Rigby

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TornAndFried

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phd
Midnight Rambler. The simple riffs of Keith are to me his best touch forever.

Agreed. Midnight Rambler is, to me, the obvious highlight of the album. Just hearing the girls screaming in the middle section is proof alone for me how intense it must have been at that show. What a great album! Wish they would release some of the other Garden shows...mistakes and all.

funnily enough, the overdubs are Keith/Mick being way too picky...if you listen to the 2 shows that are available, there are very little "mistakes"...if any at all. Jagger was too fussy with his vocals and that's why there are vocal overdubs on most of the songs.

It's common for vocals to be overdubbed on live albums and DVD's. The lower sound quality of the onstage microphones combined with the singer often running around or getting out of breath doesn't make for a good recording.

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TornAndFried
It's common for vocals to be overdubbed on live albums and DVD's. The lower sound quality of the onstage microphones combined with the singer often running around or getting out of breath doesn't make for a good recording.

Yes it is common, unfortunately.
Passing it off as a live album this way though is a sham.
If it's not good enough to release without overdubbs, then dont release is as a live album, period.

[thepowergoats.com]

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TornAndFried
It's common for vocals to be overdubbed on live albums and DVD's. The lower sound quality of the onstage microphones combined with the singer often running around or getting out of breath doesn't make for a good recording.

I don't think it was quite so common in 1969/1970 (yes, I know the Stones also did it in 1966).

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straycatblues73

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Mathijs

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jamesfdouglas

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StonesTod

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jpasc95
yes the whole album is quite good but the problem is that most solos are overdubbed which is a small minus yet.

no, they aren't. the extensive research done by stones scholars on this subject years ago yielded that they are some vocal overdubs on the album, but that's about it....

Some vocal overdubs? I'd say nearly the entire album. You can still clearly hear the bleed from Mick's original voice on many of the tracks (same with Love You Live but worse here, and more songs). Likely picked up from other microphones onstage. I mean on Honky Tonk Women the bleed is so bad you can hear the original second verse being sung (and not that stupid one about gay sailors in Paris).

As a singer, I find this unforgivable if you're peddling something as a 'live' album. Nothing has changed my mind over this for decades. Live is live, damn it.

The one song on Ya-Yas which doesn't seem to be vocally tampered with is Midnight Rambler.

This is a first to me. Yes, 7 out of 10 have new lead vocals, and several have new Richards back-up vocals, but I have never heard any of the original vocals lingering in the back as ghost vocal. Your example of HTW is the worst you could give -the sailor verse is the original verse.

About guitar overdubs -10 years or so on this board yielded one certified guitar overdub, and one suspicious one. The certified one is on the turn-around at the start of Keith's first Little Queenie solo where you hear a third guitar right in the middle, on just two bars. The suspicious one is Taylor's rythm guitar on Carol. It's different than he ever did live, and different to the untempered version of this track found as outtake.

Mathijs

Matthijs ,you ( especially ) should read this about little queenie and respond please , i would really apreciate your opinion ( and keep an open mind )

[www.iorr.org]

now i think it is actually keith who dubbed in a new taylor track , at some point the guitars synchronise that much (meanwhile..etc), it gotta be the same player

as tele says i dont give a hoot about the overdubs , it is the greatest album of all time.
I walk the dog and listen to it probably once a week ( among other albums ) and learned to play from it in the seventies so i know it insides out.

Well, quite convincing isn't it. If I remember correctly there was the same suspicion for Carol, where Keith’s guitar lined up with the audience recording / outtake, but not Taylor’s rhythm guitar. It doesn’t surprise me, as Taylor just never was the best rhythm player, and Keith has stated several times he wasn’t too impressed with Taylor’s rhythm skills.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-07 23:20 by Mathijs.

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jamesfdouglas

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Mathijs
This is a first to me. Yes, 7 out of 10 have new lead vocals, and several have new Richards back-up vocals, but I have never heard any of the original vocals lingering in the back as ghost vocal. Your example of HTW is the worst you could give -the sailor verse is the original verse.
Mathijs

Listen closer.
And/or watch the movie Gimme Shelter.

By original lyrics, I mean the single 'Honky Tonk Women', where most of us should know the second verse of by heart by now. You may have heard it?

Here's how the second verse goes on the single...


I laid a divorcee in New York City
I had to put up some kind for a fight
The lady then she covered me with roses
She blew my nose and then she blew my mind

This is the second verse also sung also during the film Gimme Shelter, from New York where the recordings of Ya Yas are from. I really doubt Mick wrote and changed the verse on the second night at MSG, and it's a live take of that changed they used. But anyways...


If you listen closely to the vocals of Honky TOnk from Ya-Yas you can hear these words being sung underneath the overdubbed vocals, which use these lyrics for the second verse.

Strollin' on the boulevards of Paris
As naked as the day that I will die
The sailors they're so charming there in Paris
But they just don't seem to sail you off my mind

(They're also the second verse lyrics used on Love You Live. Mick went back to singing the original second verse from 1978 onward.)

Anyways, point being, put on headphones, listen to Honky Tonk on Ya-Yas. I'm right on this and you are dead wrong. It's right there.

You don't get me. It is common knowledge that HTW has overdubbed vocals. The Paris verse was sung at some shows on the '69 tour, but not in NY (why would it...). I just don't hear the original vocals underneath it, something I also don't hear on other tracks that have vocal dubs (6 out of 10 tracks). There is a distinct doubling of the lead vocal on all tracks, overdubbed or not overdubbed, but as far as I am aware this is only done to thicken the vocals. There is a delay or reverb added to the lead vocals to make them stand out better in the stereo mix.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-07 23:21 by Mathijs.