Can DNA that control hair strucuture, body constitution and skin pigmentation really own music?

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bustedtrousers

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lem motlow
stupidguy2 this is a great post and a very good point you are making.

for years i believed the myth that rock and roll was taken exclusively from the blues and yes,that it had been pretty much stolen.the truth is that country music and jazz had just as much of an influence on the creation of rock and roll than the blues had.

some of the elements of rock such as the swing beat in some of it[charlie watts] come to mind as well as the huge country sound buried in some of the greatest songs.if you listen to real old country from the 30s and 40s the faster songs are basically rock and roll and alot of the musicians were rock stars before it was called that.theres nobody in the modern era that went through more booze, drugs and women than those guys.there was definitely a "rockabilly" before it was called that.just like rock roll itself, elvis is an amalgam of alot of different things.he didnt"steal "anything.

Lem, did you read my post above, about how Elvis, Scotty, Bill, and Sam Phillips basically stumbled upon That's All Right during a break in recording? It was really Sam Phillips ear that kicked the whole thing with Elvis off. He didn't steal anything, it was an accident. And Arthur Crudup got credit for That's All Right Momma. If he didn't get paid right, that ain't Elvis's fault.

Country didn't just influence rock and roll, it influenced the blues too. Many artists who grew up in the south, like B.B King, have spoken about how they listened to the Grand Ole Opry, just like Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee did.

good story,i didnt catch that the first time.i was in memphis a couple of years ago and went to graceland but unfortunately i didnt have time to take the sun studio tour.the history of that place......

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Bärs
Can DNA that control hair strucuture, body constitution and skin pigmentation really own music?

no,but ones living conditions can definitely produce a certain style of music.

blues came from what was known as "field hollerin"- the slaves singing songs as they worked.part of its basic make up is the "call and response" where one worker would sing out a line and someone across the field would yell out an answer.

in modern times you can hear this in led zeppelin songs with page and plant going back and forth with a guitar and vocals.they might have been thieves but they were really talented ones thats for sure.

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bustedtrousers

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lem motlow
stupidguy2 this is a great post and a very good point you are making.

for years i believed the myth that rock and roll was taken exclusively from the blues and yes,that it had been pretty much stolen.the truth is that country music and jazz had just as much of an influence on the creation of rock and roll than the blues had.

some of the elements of rock such as the swing beat in some of it[charlie watts] come to mind as well as the huge country sound buried in some of the greatest songs.if you listen to real old country from the 30s and 40s the faster songs are basically rock and roll and alot of the musicians were rock stars before it was called that.theres nobody in the modern era that went through more booze, drugs and women than those guys.there was definitely a "rockabilly" before it was called that.just like rock roll itself, elvis is an amalgam of alot of different things.he didnt"steal "anything.

Lem, did you read my post above, about how Elvis, Scotty, Bill, and Sam Phillips basically stumbled upon That's All Right during a break in recording? It was really Sam Phillips ear that kicked the whole thing with Elvis off. He didn't steal anything, it was an accident. And Arthur Crudup got credit for That's All Right Momma. If he didn't get paid right, that ain't Elvis's fault.

Country didn't just influence rock and roll, it influenced the blues too. Many artists who grew up in the south, like B.B King, have spoken about how they listened to the Grand Ole Opry, just like Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee did.

I'm reading a book right now about the Brill Building, and Lieber and Stoller - two white middle-class Jewish guys from California who later moved to New York and wrote great stuff for the Coasters and Drifters and wanted to be black - absolutely dismissed Elvis as a white copy-cat, a kid who was miming a black style to make it big, as a phony who was trying to sound black, and yet they belittled the fact that he didn't sound black enough.
I think alot of it has to do with a misunderstanding of Southern culture among outsiders. Black or white Northerners cannot fathom that blacks actually grew up with the Opry and that whites grew up with "black" music. It was a true integration of musical styles that was specific to the South. From that integration, we got rock and roll, blues, southern soul etc.....



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-07 23:59 by stupidguy2.

Wow, I'm so incredibly stunned by the ignorance in this post, I'm rendered speechless, I really am...

sigh, nevermind. *walks away*

***********************************************************
"What I'm doing is a sexual thing. I dance and all dancing is a replacement for sex". - Mick Jagger

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stupidguy2

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bustedtrousers

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lem motlow
stupidguy2 this is a great post and a very good point you are making.

for years i believed the myth that rock and roll was taken exclusively from the blues and yes,that it had been pretty much stolen.the truth is that country music and jazz had just as much of an influence on the creation of rock and roll than the blues had.

some of the elements of rock such as the swing beat in some of it[charlie watts] come to mind as well as the huge country sound buried in some of the greatest songs.if you listen to real old country from the 30s and 40s the faster songs are basically rock and roll and alot of the musicians were rock stars before it was called that.theres nobody in the modern era that went through more booze, drugs and women than those guys.there was definitely a "rockabilly" before it was called that.just like rock roll itself, elvis is an amalgam of alot of different things.he didnt"steal "anything.

Lem, did you read my post above, about how Elvis, Scotty, Bill, and Sam Phillips basically stumbled upon That's All Right during a break in recording? It was really Sam Phillips ear that kicked the whole thing with Elvis off. He didn't steal anything, it was an accident. And Arthur Crudup got credit for That's All Right Momma. If he didn't get paid right, that ain't Elvis's fault.

Country didn't just influence rock and roll, it influenced the blues too. Many artists who grew up in the south, like B.B King, have spoken about how they listened to the Grand Ole Opry, just like Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee did.

I'm reading a book right now about the Brill Building, and Lieber and Stoller - two white middle-class Jewish guys from California who later moved to New York and wrote great stuff for the Coasters and Drifters and wanted to be black - absolutely dismissed Elvis as a white copy-cat, a kid who was miming a black style to make it big, as a phony who was trying to sound black, and yet they belittled the fact that he didn't sound black enough.
I think alot of it has to do with a misunderstanding of Southern culture among outsiders. Black or white Northerners cannot fathom that blacks actually grew up with the Opry and that whites grew up with "black" music. It was a true integration of musical styles that was specific to the South. From that integration, we got rock and roll, blues, southern soul etc.....

That's right about Leiber and Stoller, they thought Elvis was a total fake. Which he really wasn't. They didn't like him at first, but if I recall correctly, he won them over pretty quick. They made A LOT of money off those songs, and have nothing but nice things to say about Elvis now.

All southerners grew up listening to the radio. The stations themselves may have been segregated, but once the music hit the airwaves, it was open to whoever was in range of the signal. There were a lot of blacks who listened to country stations, and a lot of whites who listened to R&B stations. Not to mention big band and swing. And probably some jazz, to a lesser degree.

I guess the rest of the country wasn't the same. Obviously, everyone listened to the radio back then. That, and records, were all people had at home. But country didn't play outside the south then like it did later. Before the big migration north for factory work, there probably wasn't as much of a black audience outside the south, so R&B probably didn't play so well in other regions either. The south was kind of a perfect storm for all that music to come together. You couldn't have Rock n Roll without white country, and black R&B, and the south was the only place where both co-existed so freely.

Another thing to consider, is that not only did blacks start heading north for the factories in the 40's, whites did too. And they brought along the country music they liked, just like the blacks brought their R&B. Many were musicians and started playing like they had back home.

The south was oppressive in many ways. Racism, the heat, and the economy, due to a lack of good paying jobs, were all factors in an oppression that didn't exist elsewhere. Blacks weren't the only ones to leave for a better life, and they weren't the only ones to spread the music they liked.

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lem motlow

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Bärs
Can DNA that control hair strucuture, body constitution and skin pigmentation really own music?

no,but ones living conditions can definitely produce a certain style of music.

blues came from what was known as "field hollerin"- the slaves singing songs as they worked.part of its basic make up is the "call and response" where one worker would sing out a line and someone across the field would yell out an answer.

in modern times you can hear this in led zeppelin songs with page and plant going back and forth with a guitar and vocals.they might have been thieves but they were really talented ones thats for sure.

Blues doesn't have much to do with slavery actually. The call and response thing is btw a prominent part of christian liturgy, as it is in many any other genres.

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bustedtrousers

That's right about Leiber and Stoller, they thought Elvis was a total fake. Which he really wasn't. They didn't like him at first, but if I recall correctly, he won them over pretty quick. They made A LOT of money off those songs, and have nothing but nice things to say about Elvis now.

All southerners grew up listening to the radio. The stations themselves may have been segregated, but once the music hit the airwaves, it was open to whoever was in range of the signal. There were a lot of blacks who listened to country stations, and a lot of whites who listened to R&B stations. Not to mention big band and swing. And probably some jazz, to a lesser degree.

I guess the rest of the country wasn't the same. Obviously, everyone listened to the radio back then. That, and records, were all people had at home. But country didn't play outside the south then like it did later. Before the big migration north for factory work, there probably wasn't as much of a black audience outside the south, so R&B probably didn't play so well in other regions either. The south was kind of a perfect storm for all that music to come together. You couldn't have Rock n Roll without white country, and black R&B, and the south was the only place where both co-existed so freely.

Another thing to consider, is that not only did blacks start heading north for the factories in the 40's, whites did too. And they brought along the country music they liked, just like the blacks brought their R&B. Many were musicians and started playing like they had back home.

The south was oppressive in many ways. Racism, the heat, and the economy, due to a lack of good paying jobs, were all factors in an oppression that didn't exist elsewhere. Blacks weren't the only ones to leave for a better life, and they weren't the only ones to spread the music they liked.

Excellent post!
That "perfect storm" is exactly what it was. It's a fascinating topic, Southern music, because its so complex, far more complex than Northerners imagine it.
They made Standing in the Shadows of Motown as an homage to the previously unsung session musicians who created the sounds of Motown...
The director, forget his name, is supposedly working on a film about Muscle SHoals and Memphis in the 60s. Those two music meccas are a great example of how black and white musicians came together to create something different than anything else in the world, a direct product of the Southern culture. My favorite example of that integration is Aretha Franklin in Muscle Shoals. Remember, Aretha, Memphis-born, didn't become the Queen until she went down South to record with a bunch of white Alabama country boys. She had been backed by New York studio musicians at Columbia for 8 years....with nothing to show but show tunes and polite jazz.
Jerry Wexler observed that like Aretha, the Muscle Shoals guys had grown up in the white Baptist and Pentecostal churches...and they were able to communicate and connect with Aretha's own gospel roots in a way that the New York, black and white, more jazz-based musicians could not, and that that had been the huge difference....
That's a story in itself.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-08 23:08 by stupidguy2.

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stupidguy2

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bustedtrousers

That's right about Leiber and Stoller, they thought Elvis was a total fake. Which he really wasn't. They didn't like him at first, but if I recall correctly, he won them over pretty quick. They made A LOT of money off those songs, and have nothing but nice things to say about Elvis now.

All southerners grew up listening to the radio. The stations themselves may have been segregated, but once the music hit the airwaves, it was open to whoever was in range of the signal. There were a lot of blacks who listened to country stations, and a lot of whites who listened to R&B stations. Not to mention big band and swing. And probably some jazz, to a lesser degree.

I guess the rest of the country wasn't the same. Obviously, everyone listened to the radio back then. That, and records, were all people had at home. But country didn't play outside the south then like it did later. Before the big migration north for factory work, there probably wasn't as much of a black audience outside the south, so R&B probably didn't play so well in other regions either. The south was kind of a perfect storm for all that music to come together. You couldn't have Rock n Roll without white country, and black R&B, and the south was the only place where both co-existed so freely.

Another thing to consider, is that not only did blacks start heading north for the factories in the 40's, whites did too. And they brought along the country music they liked, just like the blacks brought their R&B. Many were musicians and started playing like they had back home.

The south was oppressive in many ways. Racism, the heat, and the economy, due to a lack of good paying jobs, were all factors in an oppression that didn't exist elsewhere. Blacks weren't the only ones to leave for a better life, and they weren't the only ones to spread the music they liked.

Excellent post!
That "perfect storm" is exactly what it was. It's a fascinating topic, Southern music, because its so complex, far more complex than Northerners imagine it.
They made Standing in the Shadows of Motown as an homage to the previously unsung session musicians who created the sounds of Motown...
The director, forget his name, is supposedly working on a film about Muscle SHoals and Memphis in the 60s. Those two music meccas are a great example of how black and white musicians came together to create something different than anything else in the world, a direct product of the Southern culture. My favorite example of that integration is Aretha Franklin in Muscle Shoals. Remember, Aretha, Memphis-born, didn't become the Queen until she went down South to record with a bunch of white Alabama country boys. She had been backed by New York studio musicians at Columbia for 8 years....with nothing to show but show tunes and polite jazz.
Jerry Wexler observed that like Aretha, the Muscle Shoals guys had grown up in the white Baptist and Pentecostal churches...and they were able to communicate and connect with Aretha's own gospel roots in a way that the New York, black and white, more jazz-based musicians could not, and that that had been the huge difference....
That's a story in itself.

Paul Justman was the director of Standing in the Shadows of Motown. He's the brother of Seth Justman, keyboardist of the J Geils Band. I'd love to see a film about Muscle Shoals/Memphis recording... Interesting/Small wold note: When I went to imdb.com to see if it had anything listed about his future projects, I saw that, in addition to his other credits, he's listed as Editor of "C*cks*ck*r Blues". Small world indeed.

Peace,
Mr DJA

That's right about Leiber and Stoller, they thought Elvis was a total fake.



ELVIS PRESELEY -- Writing For The King ----- Ken Sharp



ROCKMAN

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Bärs

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lem motlow

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Bärs
Can DNA that control hair strucuture, body constitution and skin pigmentation really own music?

no,but ones living conditions can definitely produce a certain style of music.

blues came from what was known as "field hollerin"- the slaves singing songs as they worked.part of its basic make up is the "call and response" where one worker would sing out a line and someone across the field would yell out an answer.

in modern times you can hear this in led zeppelin songs with page and plant going back and forth with a guitar and vocals.they might have been thieves but they were really talented ones thats for sure.

Blues doesn't have much to do with slavery actually. The call and response thing is btw a prominent part of christian liturgy, as it is in many any other genres.

i dont want to be rude but you have 0 amount of knowledge on the subject.i've been listening to blues for decades and have seen some of its best including muddy waters,freddie king and john lee hooker play live.

i've also met robert lockwood jr [robert johnsons stepson ] and was lucky enough to sit at a bar with his band and discuss the blues,its history and background.

do a little research and you'll find its origins are exactly as i described.
if some one tells you differently,they're full of shit.

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Rockman
That's right about Leiber and Stoller, they thought Elvis was a total fake.



ELVIS PRESELEY -- Writing For The King ----- Ken Sharp

I don't know exactly what your getting at here Rockman. If your reinforcing what I said, or saying I'm wrong. To me, the above doesn't really do either. It doesn't say they thought he was a fake, but it doesn't really show they were highly complimentary of him at first either. The "Big Momma?/No, some white kid" remark I think shows they didn't have a lot of faith in him in the beginning.

I'm basing what I said on what I've read, mostly from the Last Train To Memphis book. It's been several years since I read it, and it's sequel, Careless Love, but if I recall correctly, they didn't have the highest opinion of him at first, and goes into much greater detail than the quotes in your scan. Either way, they thought he was ok, at best. In Last Train, I don't specifically recall them saying he was a fake, but my memory seems to be that it's not an entirely incorrect impression to get either. If I got a little carried away in agreeing with Stupid Guy, and was wrong in making the jump to them thinking Elvis was a fake, then I apologize.

If you agree or disagree, just say so. Don't do one of your fancy scans, and leave me wondering what you mean by quoting me along with it.

On a more positive note, I had no idea that Stoller survived the Andrea Doria! That's amazing! Those two have had the most incredible lives.

If your reinforcing what I said, or saying I'm wrong.

.....No no bustedtrousers just thought it was interesting and ya might like ta read .....



ROCKMAN

oh yes and Andrea Doria story is pretty wild ........



ROCKMAN